Are the ADAPTTO kit $$$ as people think....?

As I said doc, I recognise the value of the adapto and it's a better product.

However not good enough to pay 3 times more, especially when I already have the charger, bms, etc.
 
hey doc, as a good customer, it seems like you are in the position to ask for improved PAS functionality :D Never bought one, so they wont care much about if i ask. It's just some little piece of additional software they have to add. As long as they dont, Adaptto is no option for me :( Sure im willing to pay more for a good product and support their development so they can improve and make it cheaper
 
izeman said:
i'd love to have one, but the display is so damn ugly. it's bulky, colors are awful. beside that it's a full featured monster which would suit my bike very well. especially seeing each (paralleled) cell's voltage is a nice thing.
Click to expand...

FWIK there exists the possibility since short time to choose different colors of the display (the laterals).
If you like to mount it closer to the handlebar, you could cut off the moutings and fabricate your own, but i would not say that it looks bulky, but rather more like modern e-bike display as Bosch or Panasonic have (from the size and shape).
IMO the display of the CA is out of date and lots of people say it looks like an old gadget (at least the ones who do not know what to do with it or how wide its range of functions is).

No matter if kelly, sabvoton, ASI or other types of controller - you need to buy a CA + programming wires etc etc. In the end you maybe saved 100$ for a system with same performance, but such system than pretty sure will take more space on the vehicle and you do not come into favour of the comfortable and useful features the Adaptto unit has. I would always pay that 100$ or so alone for the features 8)
 
Remember that time is Money, and you save a lot of time when using Adaptto especially when balancing/charging.
The good thing about Adaptto is constant dev. So in the future you will see controllers that are
Smaller
More powerful
Have more functionality
Have better PAS
Better screen or no screen at all.
Better BMS
Etc...
 
if you have good cell you don't need to balance them. i haven't balanced my battery since 8 months now

can u use adapto without screen? the screen was also 1 one the reason i didn't use adaptto as there are too many thieves where i live
 
I have Samsung 25R balancing is very rare.....
How high is Adaptto balancing current?
I hope it is 3A or more, otherwise you have to wait................
 
cwah said:
if you have good cell you don't need to balance them. i haven't balanced my battery since 8 months now
Click to expand...

exactly. because of this, i have set "balancing voltage" higher as max charge voltage.
for instance i charge to 4,1V and have set the balancers to start at 4,13V
why do this?
with a calibrated voltmeter i measured a drift below 2mV, but adappto BMS does not measure that accurate so it would bring the pack a bit more out of balance (the BMS accuracy is about 5-10mV)


Another good thing with adaptto:

ONE charger for most battery configurations. Thats my eaton 1800W 48V built into a peli 1170 case:

iEanWr.jpg
 
As a disclaimer, I've not bought a or sold any controller yet. In my point of view, IF there were any cost advantage here, it'd seem Adaptto isn't exploiting it.

1. Battery costs can easily out pace the controller/display cost. Thus far, beyond the supplement diagram, there is no BMS or battery system construction guidance from Adaptto.
- When using JST splitters, there's reports of blowing the controller due to either intentionally or unintentionally disconnecting the BMS/mains in an out of order fashion. So to do it safely, it'd seem you're limited to one balancing board per 4s.
- Should you go beyond the 7 balancing boards the BMS comes with, the bar graph display does not cleanly show the additional balancing boards and there seems to be quirks such that they're not being analyzed properly. From the supplement, they mention a BMS channel B that is to be used when the number of balancing boards exceeds 16 but there's no mention of any best practice usages or upper limits for board counts.
- The boards are 4s boards and without guidance, a safe and limiting bet would mean use of only 4s cell groupings. The supplement mentions that it's easy to swap but the reality is that you must solder the intra-BMS board connections (beyond 4 boards). Adaptto needs to make intra-board connectors and for goof proofing, I wouldn't use JST connectors and would recommend connectors that lock.
- As is, there's no real cost savings here with the number of boards needed and high the cost for each.
- The documentation around battery maintenance and preservation is non-existent. Until this has been fully fleshed out, I'll assume that battery safety and longevity will be better served by the Satiator with the charging done offline from the Adaptto.
- Charging & design considerations seem problematic. Without a full charging solution with charger, one has to guess as to the relative safety and proper handling of differing battery chemistries. Along with this comes the need to remember to exit charging mode on the display such that things don't break. Oh, and don't forget, per the supplement, exploitation is strictly forbidden in charging mode, whatever that's to mean.

2. There's still a guessing/troubleshooting cost that exceeds others. There's only two sources (a duopoly, if you will) from whom you can order Adaptto. Neither offer full kits or any guidance on what extra parts (e.g. throttles, brakes, sensors, chargers, connectors, circuit breaker etc.) work without undue experimentation.

3. Right sizing is still a wild guess. True, there are resources out there we can use to model (thanks, Justin) but I could not locate the information needed to create a custom controller. Nor is there any easy or readily available indicator of optimal matching of controller to motor and to battery properties. This alone would cause me to overspend just to accommodate future and unforeseen needs. And, that all hinges on the assumption that Adaptto is reliable over the long term- something that I've not seen any real evidence of yet.

Again, just my opinion, but I see no bargains here- in fact, quite the opposite. In writing this, my hope is that we can address the issues to change that outlook as soon as possible.
 
Just ordered my Kelly 72v 300A with programming cable, throttle and waterproof option for 300 euro shipped lol. It weight 400g more and is also bigger but I'm fine for the price lol
 
Allex said:
Remember that time is Money, and you save a lot of time when using Adaptto especially when balancing/charging.
.
Click to expand...

Dont get me wrong, i love my adaptto, but you dont really save time.
You have to find out a lot by the threads and/or by yourself.
The "manual" has huge gaps.
You get all kinds of errors, especially when riding in wet conditions.

I never spent so much time in therms of reading and trial and error.
But on the other side, you get many features.
Since its snowy here i experienced the traction control, its awesome.......

Is the adaptto fun and full of great features......YES.......is it the ultimate time saver.....NO.
 
But dont you spend same amount of time on Infineon based controllers? Ok they dont have all of the functions so they are more basic in that sence. But Where can I find a manual and support about those? What about the big threads about the programming software, this takes a lot of time which I think people forget.
Check CA thread, it is huge with lots of questions even with a given documentation.
What kind of throttles does they support? Do you get documentation when you buy your regular BMS, not to mention documentation around battery maintenance from a China store? And warranty? If my Lyen fails I have to pay for the repairs, I dont think Lyen repairs them for free.
 
Sigh this thread... //rantOn The first post sounded like buyer's justification (clearly not remorse). To me, the above sounded like status-quo justification and excuses, not an OK, we know we've a problem and we're going to do something about it- which is what I was hoping for. //rantOff

If you want to drag locality into the equation, Lyen is local to me, is known to have a quick turn around, we don't have a language barrier, and if I get lazy, shipping is quick, cheap and reliable. But really, for a global market, this just means there needs to be more Adaptto dealers than the current duopoly whom are ready, willing, and able to do hot swaps for technical issues.

The absolute most expensive I can get between Cycle Analyst and Lyen (24 FET 4115 MOSFET 84-132V Freeway Speed Controller) would total $509USD. I don't think for a moment that'd be a fair comparison with the Mini-e AT THE SAME PRICEPOINT.

Nobody expects free, just straightforward easy in effort and time.
 
At least they Are trying. Adaptto is locally for many users as well and they get quick response and repair.
If you want to be a distributor, be my guest, nobody is stopping you.
When and if Adaptto will sell as many controllers as (whoever that is) maybe then we will have quick swaps, but I doubt it. Who does this kind of service today anyway?
I had a Stealth bike and when my battery died they sent me two cells and said that I need to repair it myself, this is for a 10k bike with a warranty!
And when the frame cracks you need to strip the whole bike down and send the frame in for a reweld to Australia.
BTW we are ALL waiting for the perfect manual from Adaptto guys, this will be good for the buyers and for those who sells them, because as it is right now I need to take same questions over and over again from the customers.
 
Allex said:
At least they Are trying. Adaptto is locally for many users as well and they get quick response and repair.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and all those local users are probably getting proper ruble pricing. The USD price should be less than half of what it was a year or two ago, since the ruble/dollar exchange rate has changed so much. Imagine the guys in Australia, who are paying significantly more Australian dollars for USD priced items, because their dollar has taken a dump against the USD, but the ruble/ASD rate has changed in their favor big time, so they should be paying a lot less for the Adappto's. Instead the price is far higher to them.

With the ruble being so weak all you guys need to do is price them properly as you could really grow your business. I'd buy a bunch of them.
 
madin88 said:
izeman said:
i'd love to have one, but the display is so damn ugly. it's bulky, colors are awful. beside that it's a full featured monster which would suit my bike very well. especially seeing each (paralleled) cell's voltage is a nice thing.
Click to expand...

FWIK there exists the possibility since short time to choose different colors of the display (the laterals).
If you like to mount it closer to the handlebar, you could cut off the moutings and fabricate your own, but i would not say that it looks bulky, but rather more like modern e-bike display as Bosch or Panasonic have (from the size and shape).
IMO the display of the CA is out of date and lots of people say it looks like an old gadget (at least the ones who do not know what to do with it or how wide its range of functions is).

No matter if kelly, sabvoton, ASI or other types of controller - you need to buy a CA + programming wires etc etc. In the end you maybe saved 100$ for a system with same performance, but such system than pretty sure will take more space on the vehicle and you do not come into favour of the comfortable and useful features the Adaptto unit has. I would always pay that 100$ or so alone for the features 8)
Click to expand...


The one thing I find borderline repulsing about Adaptto is the bulky and cheap looking display, it seems odd to hook a high quality, rich featured controller up to such a lame cheapo screen. I would rather they dropped the whole thing and would let us get all needed info on our smartphones via an app. Then we could get all kinds of data logged too, right into the app. And we could display things they way we feel like, change info when needed and do all settings from our smartphones.
 
macribs said:
...The one thing I find borderline repulsing about Adaptto is the bulky and cheap looking display..
Click to expand...
+1 i'd be happy if i could use my smartphone

good point JohnInCr. Still they have to pay the same prices for manufacturing PCBs as well as for all other components.
 

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Locals get the same price actually. Rubel is weak. Things that change over there are prices on imported goods, like components, salary stays the same.
If you ask me, a powerful motor controller should cost no more than 200USD, but until we don' t see a gigafactory for controllers, we will not see "normal" prices.
 
macribs said:
I would rather they dropped the whole thing and would let us get all needed info on our smartphones via an app. Then we could get all kinds of data logged too, right into the app. And we could display things they way we feel like, change info when needed and do all settings from our smartphones.
Click to expand...

What mac said, I'll second. But what scares the pants off of me is the very real possibility that they'd spend too little time on security.

I'd guess they're hardware (not software) guys and don't realize they're doing it the hard way (roll your own hard/soft platform vs leverage others hardware and code) to start.
 
HamsterPower said:
macribs said:
I would rather they dropped the whole thing and would let us get all needed info on our smartphones via an app. Then we could get all kinds of data logged too, right into the app. And we could display things they way we feel like, change info when needed and do all settings from our smartphones.
Click to expand...

What mac said, I'll second. But what scares the pants off of me is the very real possibility that they'd spend too little time on security.

I'd guess they're hardware (not software) guys and don't realize they're doing it the hard way (roll your own hard/soft platform vs leverage others hardware and code) to start.
Click to expand...


I don't even know if there exist such a thing as a code base or a frame work for controller. And if it does, who maintain the code base, who improves it and keeps track of everything? I very much applaud the open source movement. And for some software, frame work etc open source has worked wonders. But how would that even work, to keep such a thing as controller firmware open source? You are basically assuming a large part of controllers hardware are interchangeable, and I am not sure it really is? What sets an infinion apart from a sabvoton or adaptto? Would they all possible work well on the same firmware?

I think maybe the best thing would be for adaptto to stick to their guns when it comes to firmware. Keep developing the code base, keep improving and keep adding functions. But alongside that Adaptto should really give us an API interface so that we - the community - could piggyback on the firmware and start contribute, sharing, coding special requests, making one offs solutions etc available to the community at large. Let us worry about user interface. Let us spend time creating good looking GUI's. Or awesome features and add-ons like wheelie control, wheelie mode, data collection and displaying of said data.

That way Adaptto can keep their firmware, not feel the need to make code open source or available for competitors. But the community could still contribute with adding functions, nice to have features and all kinds of smart phone GUI's.
 
Allex said:
Locals get the same price actually. Rubel is weak. Things that change over there are prices on imported goods, like components, salary stays the same.
If you ask me, a powerful motor controller should cost no more than 200USD, but until we don' t see a gigafactory for controllers, we will not see "normal" prices.
Click to expand...

It's a little bit of electronics and and display, all quite cheap. The price includes a big hit for development cost AND for salaries, which to me is double dipping. The overwhelming majority of light EV makers go out of business, and the primary reason is pricing that's too high. Focusing on early profit instead of pricing to create growth sinks them. While I do see higher value, I'm not paying double or triple or more for it.

+1 on the display.
 
I asked kelly about API documentation. They won't give it away. Fany could not even tell me why. Actually there are people out there who did reverse engineer it for the KBSX Series. And now that its possible to read real time values, at least for their FOC series, it seem like only a matter of time till someone does so for these too, as it is a simple ASCII UART protocoll.

Kelly has no fancy Display. and now there are people who are willing to contribute their free time to makes this a reality. Sad that they don't accept that gift

That said, I see little hope for an open Adaptto to API
 
Allex said:
Remember that time is Money, and you save a lot of time when using Adaptto especially when balancing/charging.
The good thing about Adaptto is constant dev. So in the future you will see controllers that are
Smaller
More powerful
Have more functionality
Have better PAS
Better screen or no screen at all.
Better BMS
Etc...
Click to expand...

I really like the features of the Adaptto.
This controller is the real deal for plug and play setup.
My only problem is again the price tag. I have blown many controllers when trying new motors. Unless I'm Wong the Adaptto is not a bulletproof controller. In the environment of testing and pushing not of the shelf motors, I can't afford to blow an 800-900$ controller...

Knowing the price of the BOM ( ) YYYYYYYYYY so expensive ……..
 
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