Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

newb said:
Responding to my own question. My gut says that they were doing us a favor by not asking, that if they had and then got an answer beyond the legal limits they would have had to react. Bad hypothesis?
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The law itself is badly designed and never tested in court, they don't have anything easy to write in the expiation notice book?

They are doing themselves a favor, though they will no doubt try something if you are riding dangerously.
 
Architectonic said:
newb said:
Responding to my own question. My gut says that they were doing us a favor by not asking, that if they had and then got an answer beyond the legal limits they would have had to react. Bad hypothesis?
Click to expand...

The law itself is badly designed and never tested in court, they don't have anything easy to write in the expiation notice book?

They are doing themselves a favor, though they will no doubt try something if you are riding dangerously.
Click to expand...

Makes sense and of that, i have no doubt.
 
the 200watt law was fully tested in court, the case went for almost 2 years in the nsw supreme court a number of years ago
 
I remember reading about that too.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/when-is-a-bike-not-a-bike-when-its-electric/2008/06/15/1213468240544.html

I believe it's referring to the scooter type ones where the actual pedal function is really secondary.

It probably just highlights what's we've concluded before, just make sure you ride sensible, wear a helmet, and ghost pedal.

I'd heard the Cops in Melbourne were cracking down on these scooter type ones down on beach road a couple of years ago, has anyone heard that also? I think there was an article in the local paper.
 
A bit of 'inside' info on the nsw supreme court case. Eazyride bikes in newcastle was selling a large number of moped style ebikes, they had credit available and attracted alot of people who had lost their licence recently. The retailer was very aware of the 130watt continous ( 200watt peak) power rule though decided to 'risk' selling the bikes as street legal, the large volume of sales was motivating his actions.
The first problem with the police came when some kids were pulled over riding one of these mopeds on the north coast ( I forget exact location).
That police officer took it upon himself to make sure the mopeds were taken off the road. Eventually the police were told to pull over and fine any unregistered electric mopeds on the road in nsw. That opened the flood gates as these mopeds were being sold via easyride all over nsw. The retailer then was flooded with people complaining about being pulled over and fined, the retailer decided to fight the police and took on all the cases via his legal rep ( barrister). All the cases were being adjorned ( I think is the word ) as there was no precedent. So one single case of these mopeds being fined was taken to supreme court to make a decision on their legality but easyride bikes was doing the fighting via their legal rep.
It began with one of easyrides mopeds being taken for testing by the police legal reps. This proved to be a difficult process for them to determine the exact power output. Initially they hired someone from sydney universty to design some test equipment, they failed to give the results they needed, the police then did another study by another independent group, who also failed to get the result the police wanted.
Finally they hired an academic with much experience in particular in china who managed to get some reliable results though the results on power testing were not what the police wanted. So at this point after three different studies on this one particular moped the police still did not have the testing results they desired.
They had to change their way to win the case. So they then decided to argue that the mopeds being sold were not pedal powered vehicles, that the pedals were just add ons to make them appear legal........so the actual power limit was not the critical deciding factor in the outcome of the case. Even though they had spent a huge amount on proving what the actual power output of the moped was, which became irrelevant in the particular case.
So two or so years down the track, you can imagine how much money was spent on the court case by both sides ( police vs easyride bikes, though easyride bikes does not appear on the court document).
So basically what i'm trying to say is: if you think the police wont fight tooth and nail against an ebike retailer with all their resources, your wrong, they've already done it once. If the fatality mentioned previously was on an ebike, I would expect the retailer of that bike should be very nervous about what might lie ahead. I've been trying to make ebike retailers aware of the risks in australia of selling ebikes that might not be 100% street legal. It only applies to retailers private owners and self built ebikes are no problem.
 
easyride bikes closed the business as soon as they learned they lost the case.
 
I think the case was pretty clear - the cops don't want (Chinese) moped 'ebikes' to be on the roads without registration/compliance. It wasn't about power output at all.

(Specifically bikes that no one in their right mind would actually pedal).
 
Lol.
I was thinking about the power output thing from the scooter perspective and checked that mobility scooters have about 300-600watts consumption. And today have to give way to a guy in one, walking his lap dog down my street as I'm rushing to the post office to pick up new psu's ...
Agh wtf...
 
Just hear on 3AW radio that some guy burnt down his house with RC lipo.

Was like come on which one of you was it...
 
riding over to the workshop to put on my new boobar which was under my arm wearing a big blue jacket and full face helmet, pulling into the service station to get something first. thought dam looks like a I got a sawn off shotgun ready to hit the store.

anyway pulled out flying down a hill - oooo thought is it after 7am? is school back in? let off the throttle, looked around nobody or no cars around.

Then I spot further up the road to coppers with a radar gun pointing at me. I start peddling like a crazy man. as I approach I see they are laughing at me. I rode past and said "how you going boys"

I reckon they had me on bit over 40kmh. but the wild peddling did the trick. no CA sorry.

oh wider handle bar rocks.
 
Article for LiPo fire...

Impressed by lack of "ermigerd! Battery SPLOSION!"

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/exploding-battery-leaves-150k-damage-bill-20130709-2pndq.html

Joe
 
Architectonic said:
I ride past cops at 40kph all the time, they don't even seem to turn their heads half the time.
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Try doing 50 in a 40 zone without peddling or a hill near by. I am sure they will turn there heads.
 
winkinatcha said:
Article for LiPo fire...

Impressed by lack of "ermigerd! Battery SPLOSION!"

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/exploding-battery-leaves-150k-damage-bill-20130709-2pndq.html

Joe
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Still trying to get the real story from my mate in the MFB.
Squeezing a hydrogen filled lipo brick inside is a ticket to the darwin awards with at least an honorable mention.
Dropping it and leaving it to do its thing, and running squealing from the kitchen, ummmm...
 
I dont think the gas is hydrogen more likely squeezing it shorted it out internally.
 
General consensus online is that it's H2 gas with some oxygen.
Enough to keep a well puffed pack burning underwater for a short while apparently. But I doubt if it's ever been tested sufficiently in the public domain?
 
apologies samd, you are correct, hydrogen ( from anode) and oxygen ( from cathode) , damn that is dangerous
 
does everyone have a bell or horn on? I am sticking one on now and going to paint my bike black and stick some decal on my bike and call it 200W.
Rules for motorised bicycles

There are 2 types of legal motorised bicycle. For the first type, the electric motor must not be capable of generating more than 200 watts of power. For the second type, know as a 'pedalec', the vehicle must comply with the European Standard for Power Assisted Pedal Cycles (EN15194). The vehicle must have a permanent marking on it that shows it complies with the standard. A compliant pedalec can have up to 250 watts of power. But the motor cuts out at 25km/h and the pedals must be used to keep the motor operating. It is illegal to ride a bicycle on roads or road-related areas (such as paths) if the bicycle has an internal combustion engine (for example, a petrol or diesel motor) attached.

Motorised bicycles are required to adhere to the same road rules as bicycles and have the same rights and responsibilities. Motorised bicycles are exempt from registration and compulsory third party insurance.

A two-wheeled vehicle with an internal combustion engine, or an electric motor capable of generating over 200 watts, must comply with the Australian Design Rules* requirements for a motorbike if it is to be ridden on roads or road-related areas.

When riding a motorised bicycle you must:

wear an approved bicycle helmet securely fitted and fastened.
The motorised bicycle must have:
a bell or horn
at least 1 effective brake.
When riding at night you must display:
a white light at the front, visible for 200m
a red light at the back, visible for 200m
a red reflector at the back, visible for 50m.
You can ride a motorised bicycle on all roads and paths, except where bicycles are specifically excluded.

You do not need to have a driver licence to ride a motorised bicycle.
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This comes from http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Registrat...sed-foot-scooters-and-motorised-bicycles.aspx
 
200w sticker (check)
bell (check)
reflectors front and rear (check)
lights front and rear (check)

stealth paint (not quite !)
but the motor is well hidden under the rear pannier bags.

most people don't even realize i have a motor installed.

Jason
 
Architectonic said:
Bell is essential if you ride on shared-use paths. So are AJ's 200w stickers. :wink:

I don't have reflectors though, I figure lights are enough.
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believe it or not, reflectors will not satisfy the law, even if you have lights.

and as for AJ's stickers, better hope you don't run into a mandarin speaking cop. :roll:
i got a few from him and showed them to someone at work, who quickly blushed and wouldn't tell me what the mandarin said.
just that it was very rude. :twisted:

Jason.
 
Picked up my Steven's Agnello Bosch powered bike this weekend just gone. Very impressed with its hill climbing ability, haven't found one yet the bike has struggled with.

https://imageshack.com/a/CNWb/1
 
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