Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

Over the years I have participated in the ride to cure diabeties 6 times. During these time I've meet a lot of people either passionate cyclists or have diabeties or has a family member.

But one person Steven Hodge who really enjoyed some of my videos. Ex tour rider and he was involved the consultation on the new law. When speaking to him in jan2013 I said then that the proposed 250 watt limit 25k limit was too low. The problem is people involved with this law change didn't ride ebikes. And in general anyone on these rides (JDRF) hated ebikes. But Stephen actually seems to enjoy my vids and actually made the comment that he would love to ride a high speed ebike but wouldn't due to his position in the community. Plan on going back to Adelaide for the 2015 ride.
You're neving going to change the die hard licra riders point of view but work on the ones you can.




http://www.dayhodgeassociates.com.au/about-us/community-support/
 
die hard lycra?- yeah im just so happy i dont have to ride along behind their pedigree asses, smelling their ass gas anymore!! :lol: :lol:
 
Hyena said:
As for drivers with bad attitudes, I had another idea recently which I'm going to try.
We all know people act differently when there's cameras around. Many cyclists have them now but even if you don't I reckon you can probably influence a drivers behaviour with a bluff.
Thoughts ?



Yes it may make them think. Has anyone tried a truck horn for drivers with an extra bad attitude
 
Rodney64 said:
Yes it may make them think. Has anyone tried a truck horn for drivers with an extra bad attitude

i once had an Airzound. its an air horn that is pumped up to 80psi by bike pump, and it's super loud. 110DB i think from memory.

im planning to add another to my trike soon.

Jason.
 
YES - in 1988, I fitted a 12V air horn (batteries were NiCd and down the seat tube) and it was louder than car horns because mine were not suppressed inside an engine bay!

I took them off in them in the mid-90s and now that the bike is converted to an e-bike, I have been looking for a 48V air horn - but cant find one. I have contemplated putting 2 x 24V truck horns in series (but one trumpet per compressor) but this seems like madness, and would be obscenely loud.
Perhaps I should fit some "C" size NiMh batteries down the tube......
 
G'day troops

Kind of related to this thread - I kicked off a discussion topic on Rotorburn website about ebikes - take a flick through if you're interested. To access the sales area (even as a purchaser - they're a pretty good resource for high end DH gear at good prices) of Rotorburn there is a requirement to make 5 posts and I thought I'd do that by creating my own thread rather than contaminating others...and I was genuinely curious to get a consensus on ebikes from a bit of a 'purist' MTB site.

http://www.rotorburn.com/forums/showthread.php?278768-eBikes-what-s-the-current-perspective

You'll easily see all my posts as the call sign is the same. As is to be expected, there were some complete negative responses...all though typically rather than basing this on some cogent argument they simply cast dispersion on those who would want to ride them. Also the claims of spam/sales which comes from those that don't agree with you but can't actually come up with reasoned responses - the internets full of those types. Having said that there was also some pretty reasonable arguments against ebikes on trails - I don't necessarily agree with them all but at least they had given it some thought. Somewhat surprisingly (considering this is an agressively MTB/DH site) there was actually a few responses almost in support of the concept. It all happens with baby steps.

Have any of you guys hit the trails and what sort of response have you got from the non ebike MTBers?
 
When I fist posted about my ebike on my Facebook page there were those friends of mine who were vehemently opposed to any type of motor (and their use in areas with pedal powered bikes) and those that loved it. No in between. It's a very polarising topic for some reason.
 
Tom L said:
When I fist posted about my ebike on my Facebook page there were those friends of mine who were vehemently opposed to any type of motor (and their use in areas with pedal powered bikes) and those that loved it. No in between. It's a very polarising topic for some reason.

lol i know some same people. They still use VHS and venyl records with music from the 80's becouse "In the past,everything was better." :lol:

When u ask them why there should be any reason to disallow someone to use a silent electrik motor to do the same what he can do with his legs? than you get mostly no answere. :D
 
Just posted on rotorburn. I've been a member there for years but never actually posted!
Better roll up my sleeves, the gauntlet has been thrown down :lol:
 
Hyena said:
Just posted on rotorburn. I've been a member there for years but never actually posted!
Better roll up my sleeves, the gauntlet has been thrown down :lol:


Hehehe...read your posts, you've certainly pulled no punches, and I really appreciate the support! What you had to say is accurate, based on evidence and experience and to the point. The fact that you've been a member there for some time is good as well - what I woudn't like to have happen is a whole bunch of people from ES floating over there and taking the thread over. Rotorburn is a MTB/DH site, not an ebike site (although I personally suspect it won't be too long before many of these sites have a dedicated ebike section - I know many european ones already do). Of course lads and lasses, that's not to say no one else should post there (and we do still live in a somewhat free world so it's everyone's choice) just think that if too many new/one time posters start jumping on, it'll dilute the message.

I've also been careful to not post anything re: endless sphere forum as some of the things we discuss here (and some of the riding we do) is probably skating pretty close to legal boundaries (my heavens, how was that for a politically correct mouthful) and don't want to lead the more manically opposed individuals to a source of 'evidence'. No doubt those that find there own way here will be more curious and liberal in their ebike thoughts...

Tom L said:
When I fist posted about my ebike on my Facebook page there were those friends of mine who were vehemently opposed to any type of motor (and their use in areas with pedal powered bikes) and those that loved it. No in between. It's a very polarising topic for some reason.

Aint that the truth - but I think that's starting to change. Polarisation still exists in the purist cyclists (whether of the road or trail/DH variety) however I'm noticing that more casual riders are becoming very accepting. It will take time, but the unfair stigmatism associated with 'legal' ebikes should dissipate. The high powered jobbies - now that's a different story.


On a separate note, still looking forward to Pendragons proposed petition. Earlier in the thread I was a bit of a 'negative nelly' (I call it realist) in terms of any hope of getting legislation changed...and to a degree I still remain sceptical of any potential to engender change to current regulations. However, the more I thought about it (and did a little research), the more I realised there is defintely a missing segment between fully ADR regulated motor vehicle transport (cars, trucks, motorbikes in the traditional sense) and standard or lightly e-powered bicycles. The genuinely intelligent alternative - Moped for want of a better term - has been completely ignored. With the growing fossil fuels issues, pollution problems and general 'green' consensus amongst the voting public, there is genuine potential to get something done. This would no doubt entail registration, insurance and a license process however as long as the regulatory bodies are reasonable, hopefully those costs wouldn't be too onerous.

This may mean the bike needs to stick to the road, but then also means it can go on all 'offroad', gravel, dirt etc. tracks as well.
 
Architectonic said:
Hyena has already made a lot of friends over there. :lol:

LOL Yeah...does he always have that effect on people... :roll:

Seriously though now that we're amongst friends - some forum posters really p me off. I know it shouldn't but I'm just old skool. If you wouldn't say it to someones face, then don't say it online - been many a time that I've wanted to reach through a computer screen and throttle some conceited toe rag. One of the main reasons I don't post to too many forums...

It's one of the refreshing things about the sphere actually. Sure, there's disgreements but mostly discussion is reasoned and reasonable, and more often than not pretty humurous/clever. I can do without juvenile deliquents taking a break from jacking off to porn to post some bile to forums.
 
+1

let me guesse......the guy who keeps telling everyone to not feed the trolls?

i was really tempted to post something.

video killed the radio star .....or something..... :lol:

they are going to have to face it. we arnt going away, and theres not too many cops in the bush :D so thers jack shit they can do about it,....200w or... a whole lot more!
......now back to my porn...where was i....
 
I knew there'd be a can of worms open when I posted my feelings on the matter. DK has been very diplomatic about it all but I knew as soon as I made my position as someone they see as the enemy many would instantly be closed minded about it. They might think I'm trolling but that was not my intention at all. Some of them are pretty sensible about it but as expected there's the share of the "get your motorbikes of MY trails, I've got my fingers in my ears, la la la la la" :roll:

This guys quote made me genuinely nearly laugh my arse of though


shakes;2813524 said:
It wont be long until the tech filters to mtb converted ones.
...as soon as people get on how to mod these to be 1000w non pedal assist monsters and still look like they are meant to be on trails... We will have problems.

1000w ??? MADNESS!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
ridethelightning said:
PRW said:
I suppose a couple of bottles of wine here or there wouldn't be amiss... :twisted:

getting them tipsy first before getting them on a 10kw bike could be interesting too....

Just don't send them to the pub with Pendragon. or at least they aren't allowed into the park with more beer later.
 
LOL LOL LOL
yeah i was like WTF 1000 watt monster ooookaaaay. :/ yeah mate you know exactly what your talking about.

im still thinking about what to propose as a petition. I'm thinking an allround aproch of "hey government... fix our transport systems! more ppl on bikes with less sharing of lanes between bike and cars by having more bike lanes. more cars off the road with the drivers on to bikes and public transport - better public transport and more apeal to bike riding by increasing ebike limits (need beter segue there) ...

need help. been thinking more than writing anything. also whats a fair limit request? 1/2 HP rounded upto 400watt? still frock all. 1hp is actually a fair bit for a total noob to just grab a bunch of throttle in any are where there is , well, anything or any one else to crash into :/ maby ? anyway 500-750watt 30-40kph limit would be nice. 14 year old age limit?

anyway fuckwits be like:
https://au.news.yahoo.com/video/watch/23162106/no-bike-licence-plan-for-sa/
 
Personally I'd like a wattage of around 500 nominal (as you Suggest Pendragon, 500-750 watt), I can build an e-bike with that kinda power that'll do 40 km/h on the flat, and personally, that's around where I reckon the top speed for bicycle infrastructure (shared pathways/cyclewyas should be...)

from my perspective, the adoption of European standards for a country the size and sprawl of Australia is disingeneous. I personally beleive an approach to push for laws as per American style (750w) is more appropriate both for our culture and our infrastructure.

I beleive that a central and significant point to be raised is that the current limitations via the European standard actually make a compliant AUS e-bike LESS functional than a fit cyclist on quality pedal-only road-bike.

I beleive that the limitations applied are a disincentive for a functional vehicle, placing the compliant e-bike into the category of leisure/recreation rather than enabling a viable alternative (particularly for commuters travelling further than 10km) to more environmental and infrastructure damaging, less economical and dangerous vehicles such as cars.

I would like to somehow raise the point of polling existing cycle (non-ebike) commuters as to whether they would accept a 25km/h speed limit on the cycleways as an emphasis on how limiting such restrictions are (note: although a well built e-bike can still be pedalled at higher speeds above where the motor gives assistance, the rider is taxed at greater speeds due to the extra weight of the electric drive train)

========

Points for the petition

Current AUS e-bike laws are European-based and do not reflect the culture nor infrastructure of Australia

Speed and power restrictions (250w/25km/hr) functionally restrict an e-bike to less than pedal-only

The potential for alternative transportation innovations through human/electric vehicles (such as cargo bikes and trikes) is discouraged through lack of meaningful power

very little if any consultation with the existing e-bike user base. (though I do understand that at least one e-bike IMPORTER was on teh consulting panel

Apparent lack of e-bike AND cycling experience with the decision makers (note: e-bike/cycling experience means "consistent use of a cycle or e-bike as a means of tansportation or recreation" IE to be "experienced" a person MUST have a history of riding a bicycle at least once a week with many thousands of km under their wheels, and to have a true understanding of e-bikes at least 1000 km of e-bike riding)

(important in my opinion as I seriously have had a professional bicycle courier ride a legal powered and top speed e-bike up and down the laneway outside my workshop and claim it was "fast"... when I KNOW they reach 40+km/h on their day to day rounds... IE a zip down an alleyway or an exhibition ride does not give one enough experience to make a decision about power levels or speed)

===================

Working title....

Petition to review the current power and top speed restrictions of Australian e-bike laws through the adoption of the EN 15194 Standard

Current studies both here in Australia and overseas suggest that a greater use of bicycles has massive benefit to inner city congestion, public health and infrastructure costs and maintenance.

Promotion of cycling as an alternative method for daily transportation has gained little traction with less than 5% of daily commutes being undertaken by cyclists in Australia's major cities.

The purpose of this petition... is to present and promote a strong review of the current e-bike laws to assist in promoting cycling through alternative methods and gain the traction Australia needs to become a leader in alternative personal transport use, innovation and development.

(I/we/the petition signatories) strongly beleive that greater promotion and less restriction on e-bike functionality will have a significant effect on bicycle and human power/electric hybrid personal vehicle use.

reason 1

Reason 2

Reason 3

(oops just realised it's past midnight, and I have a conversion to finish and two first services on Frankencycle e-bikes to be done by 11am tomorrow, before I then ride 30 km to consult/quote an electric cargo bike conversion at 1:30 pm , so best get some ZZZZZs)

Hope that's helpful Pendragon

joe
Edit: Changed incorrect standard to correct EN 15194
 
winkinatcha said:
Personally I'd like a wattage of around 500 nominal (as you Suggest Pendragon, 500-750 watt), I can build an e-bike with that kinda power that'll do 40 km/h on the flat, and personally, that's around where I reckon the top speed for bicycle infrastructure (shared pathways/cyclewyas should be...)

from my perspective, the adoption of European standards for a country the size and sprawl of Australia is disingeneous. I personally beleive an approach to push for laws as per American style (750w) is more appropriate both for our culture and our infrastructure.

I beleive that a central and significant point to be raised is that the current limitations via the European standard actually make a compliant AUS e-bike LESS functional than a fit cyclist on quality pedal-only road-bike.

I beleive that the limitations applied are a disincentive for a functional vehicle, placing the compliant e-bike into the category of leisure/recreation rather than enabling a viable alternative (particularly for commuters travelling further than 10km) to more environmental and infrastructure damaging, less economical and dangerous vehicles such as cars.

I would like to somehow raise the point of polling existing cycle (non-ebike) commuters as to whether they would accept a 25km/h speed limit on the cycleways as an emphasis on how limiting such restrictions are (note: although a well built e-bike can still be pedalled at higher speeds above where the motor gives assistance, the rider is taxed at greater speeds due to the extra weight of the electric drive train)

========

Points for the petition

Current AUS e-bike laws are European-based and do not reflect the culture nor infrastructure of Australia

Speed and power restrictions (250w/25km/hr) functionally restrict an e-bike to less than pedal-only

The potential for alternative transportation innovations through human/electric vehicles (such as cargo bikes and trikes) is discouraged through lack of meaningful power

very little if any consultation with the existing e-bike user base. (though I do understand that at least one e-bike IMPORTER was on teh consulting panel

Apparent lack of e-bike AND cycling experience with the decision makers (note: e-bike/cycling experience means "consistent use of a cycle or e-bike as a means of tansportation or recreation" IE to be "experienced" a person MUST have a history of riding a bicycle at least once a week with many thousands of km under their wheels, and to have a true understanding of e-bikes at least 1000 km of e-bike riding)

(important in my opinion as I seriously have had a professional bicycle courier ride a legal powered and top speed e-bike up and down the laneway outside my workshop and claim it was "fast"... when I KNOW they reach 40+km/h on their day to day rounds... IE a zip down an alleyway or an exhibition ride does not give one enough experience to make a decision about power levels or speed)

===================

Working title....

Petition to review the current power and top speed restrictions of Australian e-bike laws through the adoption of the en1594 Standard

Current studies both here in Australia and overseas suggest that a greater use of bicycles has massive benefit to inner city congestion, public health and infrastructure costs and maintenance.

Promotion of cycling as an alternative method for daily transportation has gained little traction with less than 5% of daily commutes being undertaken by cyclists in Australia's major cities.

The purpose of this petition... is to present and promote a strong review of the current e-bike laws to assist in promoting cycling through alternative methods and gain the traction Australia needs to become a leader in alternative personal transport use, innovation and development.

(I/we/the petition signatories) strongly beleive that greater promotion and less restriction on e-bike functionality will have a significant effect on bicycle and human power/electric hybrid personal vehicle use.

reason 1

Reason 2

Reason 3

(oops just realised it's past midnight, and I have a conversion to finish and two first services on Frankencycle e-bikes to be done by 11am tomorrow, before I then ride 30 km to consult/quote an electric cargo bike conversion at 1:30 pm , so best get some ZZZZZs)

Hope that's helpful Pendragon

joe
Absolutely. Well written .
I'm just trying to workout what the en1594 standard is.
 
Ha! thanks for the kind words on the wrtiing guys... alright I confess, I spent around 3 decades as a professional (non-fiction) writer, including working on legal documents n such... One of the reasons my "social media" writing is full of bad grammar and spelling, kinda like some glorious freedom to babble on without major concern for struckcher n roolz :D

Pendragon, oops I stuffed up and dropped a "1" EN15194 is the Australian Federal Adopted e-bike standard...

Check Wikipeadia for a comprehensive article on standards and classifications of e-bikes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle

Joe
 
The problem is with the way our government is currently run, no higher power classes are going to be accepted without any type-approval and no industry group is going to do the hard yards in developing a new class, which means the s-pedelec class is pretty much the only thing that has a hope of being approved in Australia. And yes it will be registered/insured/plated just like a 50cc scooter.
 
I have found: when you ask questions, you need to be reasonably confident that the question doesn't highlight issues that they haven't thought about, and you end up in a worse situation than when you hadn't asked. Sometimes it is easier to fly :) under the radar, and claim ignorance
 
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