Bad Karma ?

Hillhater

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Sydney ..(Hilly part !) .. Australia/ Down under !
Another one goes up in smoke !
..but does not seem to be battery or charger related.
Fisker seem to be behaving like dik heads though !
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20120508/CARNEWS/120509860
According to Fort Bend County, Texas, chief fire investigator Robert Baker, the Fisker Karma started the fire that spread to the house.

“Yes, the Karma was the origin of the fire, but what exactly caused that we don't know at this time,” he said. The car was a complete loss.

According to Baker, the driver arrived home in the Fisker, pulled into the garage, and less than three minutes later the car was in flames. It reportedly was not plugged in at the time of the fire and the Karma's battery remains intact.

Right before the fire, the owner reported a smell of burning rubber.

“The car was brand-new,” said Baker. “He still had paper tags on it, so it was 60 days old at [most].”

According to Baker, the Karma was a post-recall vehicle bought in April.


“This looks just like golf cart fires we have down here,” said Baker. The suburban Houston area has approximately 50 golf cart fires a year, he said.

“I've worked homicide scenes with less secrecy,” Baker added. “There have to be about 15 engineers down here working on this one.”
Fisker-Karma-fire.jpg&MaxW=630
 
Like I keep saying, a good short makes any battery chemistry dangerous. One melted high resistance connection, or sharp edge chafing wires will do the trick
 
That's what happens with battery packs when a sufficient amount of duct tape isn't used in construction. :mrgreen:

John
 
dogman said:
Like I keep saying, a good short makes any battery chemistry dangerous. One melted high resistance connection, or sharp edge chafing wires will do the trick

Could have been the engine though.
Plug in hybrids have gone up in flames many times now.

I have not heard of a Leaf or Tesla fire yet, even though both are using batteries that could theoretically go kaboom.

I went to a Fisker dealership and checked the car out last month. The engine bay is highly packed. They are running a power steering line right over an exhaust area. Couldn't believe it. Many cars have had recalls over this design issue - power steering fluid WILL catch on fire.

Now, good luck finding the source of the problem, looking at a pile of ash.
 
neptronix said:
Now, good luck finding the source of the problem, looking at a pile of ash.

Oh, we'll learn exactly what they want us to believe the problem was. Fisker can relax a little, the government will be on their side and minimize the sound of it, can't be making electric cars look bad at this time, now can we? WIth these plane crashes you can never be sure how conclusive their evidence was, but people feel safe hearing this full explanation. There'll be a safe sounding explanation for Fisker.
 
People do crazier things that that. Maybe he bought the car to burn his house and family and look clean, but I doubt it. Whack jobs usually are not quite that smart.

I of course jumped to the conclusion that it was a shorted battery. It is the most common reason a golf cart burns. But there plenty of other sources of ignition under the hood of any car when all kinds of electronic stuff overheats, and sometimes the car burns. They have plenty of plastic on em once they get started nowdays.

I just wanted to point out that it's not assumed the battery chemistry or fauly cells are always the cause of the fire. I had a 65 pickup burn everything under the hood and under the dash because I had a shorted wire to a 12v truck battery once. Building a 65 pickups wiring harness from scratch was my electronics 101 class. Luckily I had a NASA rocket scientist for a neighbor. He spent two weeks helping me do the job for free beer.
 
When i was a lot younger in the 60's, we raced "Stock cars" at the local 1/2 mile oval.
We would completely strip out a car, and then rebuild with only the essentials to make it run.
Its eye opening to see how few wires a carb'd ICE needs to make it run, compared to todays computer managed EFI super eco cars.
 
Hillhater said:
When i was a lot younger in the 60's, we raced "Stock cars" at the local 1/2 mile oval.
We would completely strip out a car, and then rebuild with only the essentials to make it run.
Its eye opening to see how few wires a carb'd ICE needs to make it run, compared to todays computer managed EFI super eco cars.
I used to rebuild beetles (VW), the old ones also almost had no electronics in them. I'm sure they can make cars with less electronics, more organized, just running one datacable from the dashboard to the engine module, but I bet they rather do things the old fashioned way.

We'll probably laugh 10-20 years from now at how little progress we've made in the past years!
We've been good at using the same car, with a different body, but the internals haven't been changed since the nineties!
 
I'd say that since the article states "the Karma's battery remains intact" that it is unlikely to be anything to do with the battery itself. ;)

Still possible for a wiring issue to cause a fire, and in the process of the fire-starting short end up blowing breakers or fuses that disconnect the battery and leave it intact.
 
Used Fisker Karma EVs are the 'new Delorean' as prices tumble

As used car deals go, this is one to make you think twice. Used Fisker Karmas, which sold for $103,000 just a year ago as new models, are now being sold for roughly half price. In some cases, those trying to sell the luxury extended-range electric car on eBay cannot even get bids above $50,000.

Just ask Bill Michlin, a dealer with the Fields Auto Group in the Chicago suburb of Glencoe. He just wrapped up an eBay auction for a 2012 EcoChic version of the Karma with a top bid of $45,100. "I had 2,000 look at that car on eBay," he said. "We didn't sell it because it didn't meet the minimum reserve bid, but it will eventually."

Used Fiskers selling for 50 cents on the dollar is the latest example of how far the electric car company has fallen over the last four years. A company once touted as an example of how start-up automakers were changing the auto industry now owes the federal government $192 million and is no longer building new models.

The New DeLorean?
Thirty years after the DeLorean came to symbolize a futuristic car that failed to take off in huge numbers, the Fisker Karma is now viewed in a similar light. Approximately 2,500 Karmas were built in 2011 and 2012. But the Karma never became more than a niche luxury model. The electric car was rated by the EPA to get the equivalent of 52 mpg and was panned by Consumer Reports after the Karma model it was testing actually broke down.

Despite numerous problems, and the fact that used Karmas are sold without any warranty, some people still want this car. "Anybody who wanted this car before because it was knock-down gorgeous, but couldn't afford it, well now they can afford it," said Michlin. In fact, this weekend, Michlin sold a different Karma at his dealership for $59,700.

"The car is a pleasure to drive, it has horsepower beyond belief for an electric vehicle and it's so fun and so gorgeous. And now it's available," he said.

Equity Investors Selling Karmas
So who owned Karmas before they eventually wound up on eBay and in the back of dealerships where used cars are often held? In some cases, they were owned by early investors in Fisker: wealthy individuals who not only put millions of dollars to help get the company off the ground, but also bought some of the first Karma models.

Michlin says he bought used Karma models from early supporters of Fisker who no longer wanted the electric car because it symbolized a big bet that went bad. "It did cost them a hell of a lot of money," he said.

And when those people sold their Karmas for half of what they initially spent to buy it new just a year ago, were they upset? "I think they are upset initially when they find out what the market is," said Michlin. "They know why it is and where it is, but they didn't realize it would be so low for the car."

Limited Used Karma Market?
It's unclear how much longer the used Fisker market will offer so many cars. Like the DeLorean, the Fisker will always have a unique appeal. From a style perspective, the Karma is a hit. The issue is the technology and whether these cars will hold up over time.

Then there's the question of whether Fisker Automotive will survive. After laying off a sizable portion of its staff in April, the company will need a major capital infusion if it's going to survive. How does it feel seeing used Karmas selling for half of what they sold for a year ago?

We reached out to the crisis management firm that now represents Fisker Automotive to see if the automaker or its executives had a comment, but so far we've had no official response.

Meanwhile, Michlin is looking out for that next used Karma he can turn around and sell. "It is the most drop-dead gorgeous car that there is and people want that car because of the looks you get with it," he said. "There is no other car like it."

Related: Fisker & Karma are getting along very well it seems...

I know the DeLorean; that's no DeLorean. :wink:
~KF
 
The DeLorean isn't so simple as 'Failed to take off in big numbers.' It was the business itself that stumbled, but not as badly as the business behind the Fisker has stumbled. I don't think the Fisker was capturing imaginations the way the DeLorean did in it's own time, or has since.
 
neptronix said:
The engine bay is highly packed. They are running a power steering line right over an exhaust area. Couldn't believe it. Many cars have had recalls over this design issue - power steering fluid WILL catch on fire.

Yep. That is what caused the second fire in my parents 74 Ford Galaxy wagon. I was backing into a space with the wheels at full lock and the power steering hose cracked a little and sprayed fluid onto the exhaust. The first time was a backfire at idle while parked.

The two fires were not even the worst things that car ever did. The rear axle seizing solid leaving my mom and I stranded, slewed across both lanes of the highway at 9,000 feet in the mountains somewhere outside of Cedar Brakes, Utah as the snowstorm rolled in was maybe the worst. The most annoying was the head gasket the week after the warranty was up. The most amusing was when the rear quarters filled with water after being parked sideways on a hill in a rainstorm. It gurgled and sloshed at every stop for days. It was like driving an aquarium tide-pool exhibit.

We bought it new to replace a 69 429 Galaxy wagon and sold it for $700 less than 5 years later (to a family with kids which we felt guilty about, but we told them everything). We called it the great white whale and I don't think anyone in my entire extended family has bought another Ford, GM, or Chrysler product for 35 years.
 
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