Bicycle Snobbery

[John in CR]

The energy costs are so low, I can only imagine surrounding myself with some box for weather or safety. Otherwise gimme the wind.

The amazing thing is how cyclists have fallen for the competition thing sold by the manufacturers. Less aero, less efficient would be better in terms of exercise. The prices are absolutely absurd, and unless someone actually races competitively it's just another status symbol no different than buying a car, expensive clothing or accessories to empress others, one of the biggest shortcomings of today's society.

One of my employees competes in downhill, so of course he has at least $5k in his bike, which is a lot of money here in Costa Rica. He never comes close to winning though, because he's 30ish and there's always 17-18 year olds on some piece of shit bikes not much better than my collection of dual suspension parts bikes who throw caution to wind and just go for it down the hill. It's not the equipment, and except for the very top tier of competitive cycling I doubt the equipment plays a role.

They can call me a cheater all they want, but I'm not racing, and I'd much rather be a cheater than a sucker anyway.

 

[veloman]

It's true that the high performance parts are wayy overpriced. A nice race wheelset cost 500-700$ back in 2000. Now you need spend 2 grand for high end race wheels.

However, there is a very sensible middle ground where you get quality, well performing parts for a decent price. Yes, there are a lot of snobby roadies out there riding on $5k worth of bike and gear. But the one's riding $1k worth - they are getting 95% of the performance in most situations (normal cycling).

I don't fall for that pricey stuff. I ride 2000 year technology - Caad5 cannondale frame and dura ace components from that year, still going strong. I do have a Powertap powermeter, but I only paid $400 for it and it's invaluable for monitoring performance and progress and still is worth at least 300 if I were to sell it (plus it's cool to say "I just peaked at 2.8hp"). New powermeters run 1k-3k or more now. Insane.


I do appreciate the lightweight components, to a degree. I test rode Tom Boonen's model bike last fall - a Specialized Tarmac Pro something something.... 15lbs. It felt noticeably (which means a LOT) faster on steep climbs, and accelerating from a stop with moderate effort also felt easier - all in comparison to my decent bike. However, I'm not forking over 8k for that bike, not unless I am making 6 figures, which I'm making 4 figures the past few years now.....LOL.


My point is just that if you approach ebiking from a roadie perspective of efficiency - you can have significantly better speed, and/or require less battery/less expensive parts.... it's just easier to run a 500 watt system than a 2kw system. To me, a light bike makes biking much more fun. Not that there's anything wrong with a multi-kilowatt, 80lb ebike with a rider wearing casual clothes and sitting upright. I just prefer the greater overall efficiency.

 

[REdiculous]

I don't fall for that pricey stuff. I ride 2000 year technology - Caad5 cannondale frame and dura ace components from that year, still going strong.

I've never spent more than $50 on a bike or bike part (not counting ebike gear). I have one name brand part on my bike 'cause it was free. My bike is so ghetto that my crank arms don't even match. What's a paint job? Brakes?...

Still going strong!

 

[madact]

The energy costs are so low, I can only imagine surrounding myself with some box for weather or safety. Otherwise gimme the wind.

The energy costs, while low, are dramatically lower with a fairing... what's a hundred watts between friends, you might ask? Quite a bit when you have to supply it with pedals

On the other hand, if you like the wind, just having a 'tail' on it makes a big difference.

Manoeuvrability is a matter of practice - it steers just like a normal bike, you get your quick right turn by leaning right and nudging the wheel left to set you up, and you can pedal in the corners, unlike a road bike. They aren't so good for manoeuvring between ranks of cars 'parked' at the lights to get to a turn lane, though...

As for visibility 'bents do come in a range of heights - e.g. http://www.m5-ligfietsen.com/site/EN/Models/Models_overview/ and the high ones are very close to the low ones in efficiency, and put you at the same overall height as a roadie with an aero tuck - even the lower models have similar visibility to a sports car, and will attract more attention, too. I've only test-driven two wheelers, and raced trikes on closed circuit, so I don't have a lot of road experiences with them - but I do know from painful experience on uprights, that if you aren't occupying the middle of the lane, you will be invisible to some drivers no matter how bright your clothing or how many blinking lights you have attached... so it's hardly a step backwards there :?.

And as for the expensive components, I know what you mean - seems there are three classes of stuff out there - cheap and really nasty, reasonably priced and decent quality, exorbitant and made from titanium and the pixie dust...

 

[liveforphysics]

When I rode a Norton I'd give a little wave to other motorcyclists.
Harley riders never waved back. BMW riders rarely.

In the Seattle area, every motorcycle waves to every other motorcycle, EXCEPT the Homo-Gay-vidson riders. I figure it's because they are just angry they spent the most money for the slowest weakest heaviest worst handling machines made, and they have motorcycle envy for any other brand of machine.

 

[AussieJester]

..I saw a good line on MBC.com...when called a cheat or harassed by a Lycra, tell him pedallings for those too lazy to fit a motor

KiM

p.s Luke...what motors are in the fastest nitro bikes buddy :lol:

 

[Evoforce]

Seems we might have a wee bit of snobbery ourselves! Guilty as charged? :wink: Think about it...Grasp it...Now spit it out...

 

[dingoEsride]

In the Seattle area, every motorcycle waves to every other motorcycle, EXCEPT the Homo-Gay-vidson riders. I figure it's because they are just angry they spent the most money for the slowest weakest heaviest worst handling machines made, and they have motorcycle envy for any other brand of machine.

Seattle, the land of grunge music, sound's a pretty lay back place, I rode a jappa xj 900, nice tourer, would like to get a newer one but harleys or indian or old brittish have character, a bit like my old eh holden and an ebike can lack character

 

[hurricaniac]

In the Seattle area, every motorcycle waves to every other motorcycle, EXCEPT the Homo-Gay-vidson riders. I figure it's because they are just angry they spent the most money for the slowest weakest heaviest worst handling machines made, and they have motorcycle envy for any other brand of machine.

Except this doesn't apply to Harley's 1970s dirt track machines (XR-750) which are the winning-est bikes ever made. They still regularly stomp modern V-twin Hondas, Yamahas, etc. on the half-mile and mile ovals. But I'm not an apologist for HD street bikes; I ride an old Triumph

-Bruce

 

[AussieJester]

In the Seattle area, every motorcycle waves to every other motorcycle, EXCEPT the Homo-Gay-vidson riders. I figure it's because they are just angry they spent the most money for the slowest weakest heaviest worst handling machines made, and they have motorcycle envy for any other brand of machine.

Except this doesn't apply to Harley's 1970s dirt track machines (XR-750) which are the winning-est bikes ever made. They still regularly stomp modern V-twin Hondas, Yamahas, etc. on the half-mile and mile ovals. But I'm not an apologist for HD street bikes; I ride an old Triumph

-Bruce

Yes true, letz not mention the Yamaha TZ750 King Kenny rode "back in the day" TWICE before it was banned back in '75 because the Harleys hadn't a hope of staying with it, if it wasn't the XR-750 would not have been the most 'winningest' bike ever

[youtube]8k8hJWKIVNs[/youtube]

^2009 he got to do 2 laps again on the beast...just the thought of a 750 two stroke on dirt scares me

KiM

 

[hurricaniac]

Yes true, letz not mention the Yamaha TZ750 King Kenny rode "back in the day" TWICE before it was banned back in '75 because the Harleys hadn't a hope of staying with it, if it wasn't the XR-750 would not have been the most 'winningest' bike ever

KiM

Well, I witnessed KR race the TZ at the 1977 San Jose Mile (California) and he came in either 2nd or 3rd third behind behind Jay Springsteen (XR-750) and someone else. KR couldn't put the power on the ground like the harleys could....

-Bruce

 

[AussieJester]

Well, I witnessed KR race the TZ at the 1977 San Jose Mile (California) and he came in either 2nd or 3rd third behind behind Jay Springsteen (XR-750) and someone else. KR couldn't put the power on the ground like the harleys could....

-Bruce

Corky Keener possibly? Jay and Corky were the last two King Kenny rounded up
on the last lap of the race i saw...reason it took him till the last lap to catch them
was he started from last position on the gird. Apparently he kept going wider
and wider chasing the dirt for traction until the last lap he was so wide he was clipping the hay bails
haha He took the lead only meters from the line...

Regardless of that, the TZ was was banned by the AMA in '75 after just 3 races?!?! Unless
it Was it a exhibition race or something not sure how you could see it in 1977
unless you possibly have your years mixxed up? or all the documentation i read
on the King is incorrect LoL

I have only seen the first race on video, he started from the rear of the field and won. He did mention in one of the
videos in 2009 that if he had the tires that were on the bike when he rode it at Daytona the harleys
back in 1975 wouldn't have seen which way he went. Either way if it stayed in the comp Harleys
wouldn't have had a hope, it had ton more power and was a heap lighter, two things a racer
wishes to have over his competitors. If as you say the Harleys could beat it, why did they ban it?!?! :lol
The one and only reason the Harley is the most winningest bike is because it was only racing other Harleys
it couldn't lose!! HAHAHA

KiM

 

[dingoEsride]

Yes true, letz not mention the Yamaha TZ750 King Kenny rode "back in the day" TWICE before it was banned back in '75 because the Harleys hadn't a hope of staying with it, if it wasn't the XR-750 would not have been the most 'winningest' bike ever

That bike must have been awesome in it's day and what a rider, is that a tripple?, sounds hot, remind's me of the Kawasaki 750 tripple the mack 3 i believe, it was dubbed the widow maker cause the power would just cut in at a certain rpm without control, I think that one went out of production for cause too many dying, not a big fan of two strokers, noisy stinking spitters, but in a race situation they play their role, they were big in the 70's and 80's, still remember the power of my old honda cr 125 bush basher and my very first motorbike was a suzuki t250 at age 18

mark

 

[Robbie Hatfield]

Bicyclists don't usually have enough time to say anything to me as I pass them and show them my rear wheel. LOL

Robbie

 

[vanilla ice]

Pedestrians don't usually have enough time to say anything to me as I pass them and show them my rear wheel. LOL

 

[fechter]

Yes true, letz not mention the Yamaha TZ750 King Kenny rode "back in the day" TWICE before it was banned back in '75 because the Harleys hadn't a hope of staying with it, if it wasn't the XR-750 would not have been the most 'winningest' bike ever

That bike must have been awesome in it's day and what a rider, is that a tripple?, sounds hot, remind's me of the Kawasaki 750 tripple the mack 3 i believe, it was dubbed the widow maker cause the power would just cut in at a certain rpm without control, I think that one went out of production for cause too many dying, not a big fan of two strokers, noisy stinking spitters, but in a race situation they play their role, they were big in the 70's and 80's, still remember the power of my old honda cr 125 bush basher and my very first motorbike was a suzuki t250 at age 18

mark

Those Kawasaki tripples were indeed widowmakers. I had a 500 H1-E tripple and it was deadly. It could easily burn the rear tire on takeoff and topped out around 110 mph. The real problem was the frame geometry. It was inherently unstable and would easily go into a wobble at speeds above around 75 mph. They used a hydraulic steering damper to try to counteract it, but it was still a problem. Guy that I sold it to went down on the freeway after getting into a wobble. He survived but got some road rash.

My son lets me ride his Buell XB9, which will get waves from both sport bikers and Harley riders. Too bad they went out of business. It's really impressive for a Harley engine.

Now that the Tour de France is running, all the lycras are going crazy around here.

 

[vanilla ice]

Theres one of those H1's about 30 feet from where I sit. Well, an earlier one. Here a picture I took of it yesterday. There's probably a '74 around here if I look..

I wouldn't mind having one of the 1125R buells..

 

[JosephE]

One thing I can say I like about bicycle snobbery... it's forced me to get off my butt and learn all about how bikes work and now how electric bikes work. Reading, more reading, I bough a bike repair book, some tools, started tinkering. And oh by the way I don't need the opinion or services of the bike store snobs now. The snobs will embrace new things and make some money with it or someone else will. Their choice but so far I feel like I'm coming out ahead in the deal.

 

[AussieJester]

Their choice but so far I feel like I'm coming out ahead in the deal.

Good to hear...there really isn't any aspect of the bicycle that is overly difficult wheel building prolly the hardest but
even a dunce like me can lace a wheel in under 20 minutes and true it reasonably wheel in 10-15 minutes.

Keep up the tinkering you will just get better the more 'hands on' experience you get. If you haven't alread checkout Sheldon Browns website
its excellent source of information for all things bicycle.

KiM

 

[Zoot Katz]

. . .
Keep up the tinkering you will just get better the more 'hands on' experience you get. If you haven't alread checkout Sheldon Browns website
its excellent source of information for all things bicycle.

KiM

I heard a spot on the radio by a guy who had been learning from Sheldon's website for a few years. It's only after he'd composed a thank you letter that he found out Sheldon Brown had been dead the whole time he' d been building his bikes with Sheldon's help.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/articles.html

 

[dingoEsride]

Those Kawasaki tripples were indeed widowmakers. I had a 500 H1-E tripple and it was deadly. It could easily burn the rear tire on takeoff and topped out around 110 mph. The real problem was the frame geometry. It was inherently unstable and would easily go into a wobble at speeds above around 75 mph. They used a hydraulic steering damper to try to counteract it, but it was still a problem. Guy that I sold it to went down on the freeway after getting into a wobble. He survived but got some road rash.

My son lets me ride his Buell XB9, which will get waves from both sport bikers and Harley riders. Too bad they went out of business. It's really impressive for a Harley engine.View attachment 2

Now that the Tour de France is running, all the lycras are going crazy around here.[/quote]

The Buell would be a better handler than your usuall, but still gotta like the harley looks

 

[liveforphysics]

but still gotta like the harley looks

Or, kinda throw-up in your mouth when you see a big air cooled-pushrod V-twin in a small diameter mild-steel frame mig welded together by kids at blind camp... lol

 

[AussieJester]

The Harley will be kicking loooong after that Suzuki of yours has seen its last days Luke
Jap bikes are made for a good time not a long time....which usually works out well for their riders
as they have pretty short life span too :lol:

KiM

 

[vanilla ice]

XR750's are pretty kick ass. The rest.. no so much.

 

[dingoEsride]

dingotookmybaby wrote: but still gotta like the harley looks



Or, kinda throw-up in your mouth when you see a big air cooled-pushrod V-twin in a small diameter mild-steel frame mig welded together by kids at blind camp... lol

HA HA! Yes true not so known for their reliability or handling, they got better with the evo and jap electrics just don't tell the diehard harley rider though