biggest turnigy/turnigy motors right now?

[thedarlington]

ive currently got a hub motor but ive always wanted to get into turnigy because i could easily swap out the motor to play with it in something else easier, RC planes cars etc, but not knowing anyone with these or having ever seen one, ive got no clue and they really all seem about the same on the HK site, so can anyone give any input as to their power output? i know some of the guys with recumpence's kit run these, what speeds do you get? also whats the difference between these, are they the largest currently available? im guessing after these its pretty much the jump to mars right? what controller do these take?

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5142&Product_Name=Turnigy_80-100-B_130Kv_Brushless_Outrunner_(eq:_70-55)

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5139&Product_Name=Turnigy_80-100-A_180Kv_Brushless_Outrunner_(eq:_70-55)

 

[Jeremy Harris]

These motors put out around 6kW or so, but only if run at the right rpm. Controllers are a bit of an issue, as the motors have no Hall sensors as standard so can only be run on RC type controllers, unless you're into doing mods.

The only reliable controllers for these motors on ebikes seem to be the biggest Castle Creations ones. They are expensive and even then you may get a controller failure at part-throttle, high load.

The motors can be modified to use Hall sensors fairly easily and will then work with a big ebike brushless controller.

The difference between the two motors you've selected is just the Kv, the motor rpm per volt. In some respects a low Kv is useful, as it allows simpler reduction ratio design. Lower Kv also means less power as a rule, as the max motor rpm will be lower for any given voltage.

The big problem with these motors is availability. HK are constantly out of stock, particularly for the 130Kv one, which makes then a bit difficult to get hold of.

The same size motor is being sold n ow by Hal and Marko though, so if you don't mins paying a premium price you could do worse than by their motor. It does have the useful advantage of a Kv of around 75 though, making 40 to 60 volt operation quite practical with readily available controllers.

Jeremy

 

[mwkeefer]

Jeremy,

Hal and Marko? What's this (for those of us in the US and unaware?)

-Mike
PS: How's the Jegway coming?

 

[Miles]

Hal and Marko? What's this (for those of us in the US and unaware?)

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=20292

 

[mwkeefer]

Thanks Miles - Not sure how I missed that connection, PM sent to Mark for 2 of the 7kw motors! Talk about overbuild on a 20" folder

-Mike

 

[thedarlington]

thanks guys, that collosus special looks nice but isnt it only being made in a limited run? what are the differences in it and the turnigys besides only needing one reduction gear, what motors would turnigy and collosus use anyway? would this blow up?
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=10332&Product_Name=Turnigy_Monster-2000_200A_4-12S_Brushless_ESC

i also found this one, not as big but perhaps cheaper to toy around ideas with?

http://www.hobbypartz.com/mo1602brmo.html

jeremy what kind of setup do u have u seem to know your stuff about these rc motor setups

 

[liveforphysics]

Every person that has got the Turnigy 200amp monster ESC on this forum has had it blow up very quickly, I think a few of them blew up in totally un-loaded situations. I would strongly not recommend it.

That other motor could be OK for for a low powered application. It's like an apples to oranges comparison though.

 

[TPA]

The 180Kv turnigy is rated by hobbyking as a 7000W motor. The 170Kv motor linked below is also turnigy, and though it is a slightly lesser beast at 6000w, it is in stock, weighs 340g less, and is ten bucks cheaper to boot.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5141&Product_Name=TR_80-85-B_170Kv_Brushless_Outrunner_%28eq:_70-40%29

I do recommend reading the reviews, some mention failures and suggested bearing replacements.

 

[Lock]

Just curious, but beyond Turnigy ya can have a Hacker A200-8 rated 15kW (peak 300A, $1100) with MasterSPIN ESC rated 220A continuous($900)... will these Hacker/Jeti controllers "Blow Up Real Good" too in any ebike app? Or is this thread really only about how far can you push cheap crap?
tks
l0ck

 

[AussieJester]

I'm sure the op would be just as interested in overpriced motors and controllers nobody has ever adapted for ev use....not just the 'cheap crap' that have been proven to work well ...list away. Curious: in your opinion where do Astros and Castle Controllers list with you? cheap crap or overpriced ?

KiM

 

[mwkeefer]

Kim,
You forgot Option C: "Overpriced, Cheap Crap"
Thought you said you didn't write poll questions, way to box em in
-Mike

 

[AussieJester]

KiM

 

[liveforphysics]

Just curious, but beyond Turnigy ya can have a Hacker A200-8 rated 15kW (peak 300A, $1100) with MasterSPIN ESC rated 220A continuous($900)... will these Hacker/Jeti controllers "Blow Up Real Good" too in any ebike app? Or is this thread really only about how far can you push cheap crap?
tks
l0ck

You know, the 200amp Jeti Spin is the controller that Gary, Matt, and myself all shelled out cash for, and they all popped much sooner than a castle creations for 1/2 the price costs. It also didn't hold sync as well as the $95 turnigy k-force. For something that cost me $599, it was a pretty huge bummer.

 

[Lock]

Well, sorry to hear these Hacker/Jeti tales... (No warranty available?) The controller has a programmable speed of motor acceleration variable related to the lag spinning up large props. Would this serve to ramp up the amps more gently and save these failures? Anybuddy look at watt components exactly it was that failed in these things?

tks
Lock

 

[liveforphysics]

Well, sorry to hear these Hacker/Jeti tales... (No warranty available?) The controller has a programmable speed of motor acceleration variable related to the lag spinning up large props. Would this serve to ramp up the amps more gently and save these failures? Anybuddy look at watt components exactly it was that failed in these things?

tks
Lock

The FET stage exploded on mine... Same story with Gary's. Before it blew up though, the performance was pretty poor, blip the throttle too quickly and it would lose sync and just make a screeching sound like the first gen turnigy HV controllers.

At any price, the castle seems to be the best, both on paper, and more importantly in practice. They took about ~1.5- 2mins to die, and that was just the HV110 (this was before the ICE160 existed). That's the longest life from any of the RC controllers I used.


As far as various software things helping them... nothing is going to overcome the inherent weaknesses of the FET stages. All the soft-start stuff works just like being a partial throttle. Partial throttle is the most extreme abuse for an RC controller. We've had some huge threads about it ( FET switching losses, PWM related current effects, freewheeling currents on the intrinsic diodes of the low-side FETs etc etc), but you don't have to take my word for it, Castle Creations themselves wrote an article about how come controllers fail at partial throttle that otherwise work fine at WOT. In other words, the boxes like the EV-logix and Fetchers box that limit current by reducing the throttle signal are doing the opposite of helping the controller survive... but we're getting pretty off topic now.

 

[Lock]

Probably obvious but I have spent very little time on ES reading about these RC motor/ESCs

...except for air props and friction drives...

For ebikes watt about "de-coupling" these motors and controllers the same as with an air prop? Sort of a slippery clutch with magnets or turbines in close proximity where the 1/2 connected to the mechanical drive is separated from the 1/2 driven by the RC motor/controller and coupled only by air/fluid drag or magnetic flux? Yah, maybe OT, but the OP probably wants some reliability with his end result and comments here are not promising!

tks
Lock

 

[liveforphysics]

Probably obvious but I have spent very little time on ES reading about these RC motor/ESCs

...except for air props and friction drives...

For ebikes watt about "de-coupling" these motors and controllers the same as with an air prop? Sort of a slippery clutch with magnets or turbines in close proximity where the 1/2 connected to the mechanical drive is separated from the 1/2 driven by the RC motor/controller and coupled only by air/fluid drag or magnetic flux? Yah, maybe OT, but the OP probably wants some reliability with his end result and comments here are not promising!

tks
Lock

If you had a way to de-couple it so it could spin up to a safe RPM for the controller, then use a ratcheting-type CVT for the drive, then it should work perfectly, or at least the CVT should be the next weak-link in line to fail. They actually make one for a bicycle hub. Ratios between infinity:1 up to 1:1 if I'm not mistaken (i didn't take the time to watch the video again.) I did hear the first line though, and it's always funny when folks think they invented something that has patents on it from the 1800s. lol
[youtube]cd2-vsTzd9E[/youtube]

 

[Lock]

...a ratcheting-type CVT for the drive, then it should work perfectly, or at least the CVT should be the next weak-link in line to fail.

Right. Which is why I was wondering about a "simple" fluid or magnetic transmission, perhaps where the two halves can be shifted closer/away from each other but otherwise no ratchets etc/mechanical contact. I recall seeing a pic/vid of somebuddy that has done this... I think pedal-only but the effort driving a large fan that "mated" with the wheel only by air friction.

I ball-parked a moped conversion using a 15kW peak rated Hacker and their 220A ESC plus 3kWh LiFePO4 with second-hand moped as about $5000. It's about legalities. In my hood "ebikes" are limited to 500W and 32kmh... The def of "moped" limits max speed to 50kmh BUT NO POWER LIMIT Not quite the top speed advertized for the Brammo but considerably less cost (IF the RC stuff could be made to serve reliably)

tks
loCk

 

[Lock]

...I ball-parked a moped conversion using a 15kW peak rated Hacker and their 220A ESC plus 3kWh LiFePO4 with second-hand moped as about $5000. It's about legalities. In my hood "ebikes" are limited to 500W and 32kmh... The def of "moped" limits max speed to 50kmh BUT NO POWER LIMIT Not quite the top speed advertized for the Brammo but considerably less cost (IF the RC stuff could be made to serve reliably)

Just to expand on this a bit, this (successful) local scooter dealer just added China-made scooter-style "ebikes" to their product mix:
http://www.motoretta.ca/ProductList.aspx?categoryId=18

Ya can see the price points are very different for "ebike" versus gas scooters... Lottsa my neighbours plunking down $3000-$5000 for gas scooters these daze... An electric moped done right would blow gas scooter performance outta the water...
tks
Lock

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Jeremy,

Hal and Marko? What's this (for those of us in the US and unaware?)

-Mike
PS: How's the Jegway coming?

Glad you found the thread about these new motors. I'm also going to play with a couple to see what they're like.

Jeremy

PS: I've updated the balancing scooter thread - I like the name 'Jegway'................

 

[gwhy!]

I ball-parked a moped conversion using a 15kW peak rated Hacker and their 220A ESC plus 3kWh LiFePO4 with second-hand moped as about $5000. It's about legalities. In my hood "ebikes" are limited to 500W and 32kmh... The def of "moped" limits max speed to 50kmh BUT NO POWER LIMIT Not quite the top speed advertized for the Brammo but considerably less cost (IF the RC stuff could be made to serve reliably)

tks
loCk

You need to look at cheaper stuff mate :wink: it does the same for less and has no issues with reliability ( well my setup anyway).
My conversion of a auto scoot did not cost no where the price you ball-parked , 100 quid for the scooter , 50 quid for the 6kw motor and 50 quid for the controller + my battery's and yes it do out perform a gas scoot.

 

[Lock]

You need to look at cheaper stuff mate :wink: it does the same for less and has no issues with reliability ( well my setup anyway). My conversion of a auto scoot did not cost no where the price you ball-parked , 100 quid for the scooter , 50 quid for the 6kw motor and 50 quid for the controller + my battery's and yes it do out perform a gas scoot.

Tks gwhy... understand. Don't think you factored in the cost of the ESCs ya burnt through to get where you are now with the 50cc conversion

I'd be more interested in "drop in" components that don't need the mods eg Halls added etc or that run at limits (need active cooling.) Doesn't sound like the RC motors are "there" yet... Markcycles Enertrac hub looks a much more rubust option (simpler and quieter)... built to handle 10kW but "limited" to a Kelly 8kW controller would be about $2000 with shipping and tax. Obviously the OP and others here are looking for the cheapest solutions and RCs *look* cheap but I'll suggest it may be false economy if looking for *reliable* 7kW outputs (max rating for the $100 Turnigy motors linked to...)
Lock

 

[gwhy!]

You need to look at cheaper stuff mate :wink: it does the same for less and has no issues with reliability ( well my setup anyway). My conversion of a auto scoot did not cost no where the price you ball-parked , 100 quid for the scooter , 50 quid for the 6kw motor and 50 quid for the controller + my battery's and yes it do out perform a gas scoot.

Tks gwhy... understand. Don't think you factored in the cost of the ESCs ya burnt through to get where you are now with the 50cc conversion

I'd be more interested in "drop in" components that don't need the mods eg Halls added etc or that run at limits (need active cooling.) Doesn't sound like the RC motors are "there" yet... Markcycles Enertrac hub looks a much more rubust option (simpler and quieter)... built to handle 10kW but "limited" to a Kelly 8kW controller would be about $2000 with shipping and tax. Obviously the OP and others here are looking for the cheapest solutions and RCs *look* cheap but I'll suggest it may be false economy if looking for *reliable* 7kW outputs (max rating for the $100 Turnigy motors linked to...)
Lock

I never had a rc esc let smoke out ( I have 4 of them, all cheapo ones ) I never had a cheapo motor brake on me either I also have 4 of these and just bought another, I have never run active cooling ( but careful/thoughfull mounting and some minor mods ). The halls sensors are a separate item and can be replaced\swapped out same as the motors and controller so its all "drop in". The motors are fine, controllers are the issue, I still stand by what I have said before about hub motors yes they are a "easy option" and may be a "Bit" quieter but I still have yet to see any hub motor than can really perform as well as a rc setup. I would put my converted scoot up against one of the markcycles hub motor and I am pretty sure there will be very little difference in performance ( if any ) ,,, 50 quid motor/50 quid controller.. :wink:

 

[thedarlington]

for the price of that transmission you might as well just buy a ready made vectrix im sure before reaching those price levels theres plenty other motor options avail, yes turnigy is a cheap solution bikes arent heavy, same way it would make more sense to drive a honda vs a tank to work as your daily commuter, even a friction drive would be great, as long as it serves your purpose, although theres much more elegant solutions, like the gearing recumpence built, now thats nice, im not the most knowledgable person in these things but mars, perm, and astro come to mind correct me if im wrong please

 

[liveforphysics]

Lock- If your looking for reliable, an RC sized esc is inherently a fail. No amount of price afixed to it can solve this.

In a motor, if the windings and magnets are properly done and secured, the only failure point is the bearings (assuming the motor is properly sized). You could buy a $100 HXT motor, and for $100 in ceramic bearings you've got something that will out last that hacker motor by perhaps x10.