BiGH's Ride!

Ah BigH now I understand your problem!
I had the same thing happening to me with a set of my road rims.
Apparently, the rubber rim tape was distorting so much over the spoke hole, (at 110 psi), that it was causing a pinch type flat. Went through a heap of tubes before I solved the problem with some cloth rim tape.
Cheers,
Rob
 
my bike shop guy said thick electrical tape / gaffa tape can be quite good - just go around it a few times with the tape and wallah - perfection - and cheaper than rim tape (plus its xyster certified)
 
After a front wheel tube change and electrical tape where the rim tape used to be my bike is back on the road...


at 81.2V fully charged! :shock:

The difference is incredible, 36v to 48v showed a significant improvement, 48v to 80v is a whole new ballgame, clearly top speed is higher, the energy the motor has off the mark is also larger. I noticed NO heat in the motor or controller afer fanging around for 15mins at full throttle. This included a slow speed hill! :)

I rode mostly on the bike tracks but had to take it on the road breifly, and outaccelerated cars to 50kph!

crazy! :!:

the interesting thing with the size of the two yesa packs:
the panny bag that used to have my 24v (12v 17ah sla x 2) now fits my 72v 11ah yesa pack! they are comparable in size!.

I removed the BMS boards from both packs. Stacked the cells on top of eachother (like levels in a house) and then mounted the bms boards (temporarily) in a dick smith jiffy case (the large one for $6). One was mounted to the bottom of the box, and the other to the lid. I will redo this properly and screw them down while drilling a hole for the wires - at the moment they're only held there by double sided rubber (and a duct tape saftey net incase that fails). then the pack is put together with duct tape.

So far the yesa pack has held together beautifully. my initial concerns about quality are fading very quickly. I'm still very concerned over the ratings of the fets (only 55v), and will run this pack down to low voltage cut off to see if the bms fries. - Then will also check the rechargers are working right.

To anyone that has lead packs - i highly reccomend you ditch them and move to lithium.

after experiencing the power and lightweightness of lifepo4 there is no going back to lead. My old lead cells are now retired to a life of solar battery backups! (all i need is the pannel and inverter to run them lol).
 
:arrow: Higher voltage is always better.

Now all you have to do is explain to the police that:

"Officer, I had no idea that my bike became illegal with all that power... are you saying there are power limits to electric bikes in australia?"

"You mean over one horsepower is actually illegal?" :wink:
 
Too late, I already know!
And i know how to do the calcs. ;)
Fortunately, there are not many around who can, but time will tell.
Mind you 50 kph is a dead give away, especially if you're not pedaling.
:shock:
Rob
 
Not sure how popular Hockey is in the land down under, but i use hockey tape over electrical tape on my rims.

The electrical tape streches and pushes down into the double wall rim holes at high psi.. so a few layers of electrical to build up a thick band.. then fabric tape over the electrical has worked very well for me at 60 psi.

Lead = Dead.. i agree ! :wink:
 
Freddyflatfoot said:
Too late, I already know!
And i know how to do the calcs. ;)
Fortunately, there are not many around who can, but time will tell.
Mind you 50 kph is a dead give away, especially if you're not pedaling.
:shock:
Rob
Click to expand...

You're welcome to know Officer Rob :) yah thats why i stuck to off road :) (mostly)... I've still been faster on the roads on my road bike though (on the flat too!) which brings me to a funny side story - i was riding down a hill doing 59-60 in a 60 zone on the road bike. There was an officer with a lasered me with it - got me in the eye too :s i couldn't stop laughing though that he actually tagged me with it to check my speed hehehe.

couldn't avoid not riding on the road to get to the track. I was peddling like mad trying to keep up with the motor ( i refuse to not-peddle - its just wrong on a bike - i actually want some exercise).

I intend on (once the bike is finished in its final form) attempting some sort of registration (i'm not sure how this will go down with Vicroads) for the bike - just to make me compliant with the law (i am a Masters in Law student afterall). Paying a couplea hundred dollars a year in rego fees is no issue. BUT i've already made preliminary enquiries with my local vicroads and was told to "not bother - its a bicycle".

Unfortunatly as some on the forum have found - we higher power ebikers are in a bit of a bind - can't register our rides, but can't legally ride them on the roads either!

Might need to write some letters to council members etc.

Rob here's a quetsion for you - what is the penalty in vic for riding an overpowered ebike on the roads and out of interest what do you do in VicPol?
 
Rob I am curious how would you work out the wattage...lets use my bike as an example...I have on order 72v 11amp batteries and my controller is a 72v 40amp controller...therefore maximum would be 2880watts which is 14.4 times over the limit :shock:

However at the moment i have a limit of 4 amp at 48v so therefore my max wattage is 192watts under load (it sucks)...however if a cop pulled me over how would they check...I can put the bike up on its stand and hold the bike so the wheel is off the ground and show them...but free wheeling will always use less watts then what is would under load. even without the limit it still wouldn't pull more then double digits

edit:fixed mathematical error, forgot to add a decimal point
 
oh i did find an issue at 72v that didn't show itsself at 48 -

if travelling at speed now, and I gradually apply the throttle i get some serious "cogging" from the motor as the slower throttle is trying to slow down the bike. Applying more throttle makes the problem go away. Strange but not really an issue. If the c-lyte motors had a freewheel it would remove the problem completely!
 
Big H,
Firstly, I noticed that you said you ride on bike paths? We got an e-mail not so long back, that said something like bicycles need to obey the speed limit on dual use bike paths, (peds and bicycles). For the life of me, I can't remember what the speed limit was, but i think it was like 10 kph! Not sure if its all bike paths, but the e-mail did mention a path along the beach?
Anyway, the penalty for an overpowered e-bike, is the same as riding an unregistered m/bike or a monkey bike. You would cop the unregistered vehicle fine for a small motor bike, which is something like $135, but not certain, as our fines are updated annually, but it would be in that ball park.
If you don't have a motor cycle licence, then you could cop that one as well, and thats a killer! $551 for unlicensed.
Until recently, I was working general duties in a country town, but moved back home to work in communications. Ultimate plan is to get a Traffic Management Unit position, but they are not easy to get in the country, and I'm just that much too far away to look at Melbourne positions, so just biding my time.
If you are studying law, then you would know that ignorance of the law is no excuse, (sorry safe, can't plead ignorance!)
As for registering a high powered e-bike, I would have a look at the motor cycle registration requirements, to see what is required. without even looking, it would be very unlikely that a bicycle could pass the requirements, without being heavily modified, (i.e. brakes, indicators, mirrors, lighting, just to name a few)
But i do see where you are coming from. I would also be prepared to pay a small reg fee to have a higher powered bike.
I have just finished my recumbent trike, and it seems to be going well. This could be a very good candidate for something like a Puma motor!
Cheers,
Rob
 
Fush,
Aussie law is on max output, so to use my bike as an example,
I run 24 volt, with a 15 amp controller, and the motor is 70% efficient.
So the calc is 24*15*0.7=252 watts
Your setup is 72*40*.7=2016 watts. I used 70 % efficiency just for fairness. So your setup is 10 x the Aussie limit, and I'm running 50 watts over.
The law doesn't care about what watts you run at just cruising around, only what the motor output is at max.
Cheers,
Rob
 
Thanks for your reply Bob! there is alot of great info in there for victorians.

I do remember a while back a friend being chased by a police car on a bike path in a park and told off for speeding - quite a funny story to hear- but you have a very good point. From memory you're in the ballpark - either 10-15kph.

Also a big thankyou for your detailed response regarding fines in Vic for ebikes. thankfully I'm a fully licensed (both car and motobike with no restrictions) driver/rider, so i'd escape the unlicensed driver fine.

I think its time to talk to some politicians. There is an fed election so maybe we'll get a look in.

Thats right ignorance of the law is no excuse - these are absolute liability offences we're talking about, there is no defence!

Best of luck getting into TMU - just remember its the hard to get into jobs that turn out the most fun!
(puma power!)

recumbent eh? :) i never saw one in the flesh until around the bay - and boy are they cool, i have to say that velomobiles are cooler though - we had two riding in a pack back from Geelong with us. The speed they get is incredible. I'd love to get one of those with electric power, but I feel that they're just too dangerous for riding alone let alone at speed with electric power.
 
Freddyflatfoot said:
Fush,
Aussie law is on max output....

The law doesn't care about what watts you run at just cruising around, only what the motor output is at max.
Click to expand...

RTA NSW said:
Motor assisted pedal cycles with electric or petrol engines are exempt from registration, provided the maximum engine output power does not exceed 200 watts. Riders must follow the same road rules as for pedal cycles without motors, including wearing a helmet.
Click to expand...

this is where things gets interesting...max output power must not exceed 200watts...the fact is you could get a 200watt motor get a bigger controller and put more then 200watts worth of power into it...it may not last very long but you could still make it exceed 200watts.

So therefore do we consider 200watts at the motor or do we consider 200wats at the controller....because hypothetically I could get a 48volt 4amp controller and the max output would be 200watts therefore my maximum output power at the motor is 200watts even though it could be higher if i got a bigger controller.....

which brings me back to my situation i have 72v 40amp controller but its limited with cycle analyst. It an electronic limit similar to what you can see in some cars, lets say i have a really fast car with huge engine that has to be limited so it doesn't self destruct, originally the power output is 400bhp but its limited to 350bhp, If I was to go to the RTA/Vicroads etc and look up its engine capacity it would state it as 350bhp not 400bhp, would it not be a similar situation for electric bikes.

My motor may be capable under the right circumstances e.g. no electronic limiter/bigger controller/bigger batteries to go above 200watts but if it is limited it won't exceed 200watts at the motor unless the limit is removed. The fact is that it says it maximum power must not exceed 200watts, By putting a limit on it, the maximum output power is 200watts.
 
I thought i might just add...i am not trying to have a dig at you Rob...i appreciate all the police do....you guys don't make the laws you just enforce them..its the stupid bureaucrats in the Road transport departments. While my bike is capable of extreme speeds I only got the huge motor and batteries to get up some crazy hill in my area that are impossible under the limits.

The bureaucrats have still got it stuck in their minds that watts = speed...I would far prefer higher wattage with a speed limit. therefore more torque and my bike would legally be able to get up some of hills in my area.
 
The power limitation laws hit the manufacturer the hardest. The government has to make sure that the bike "as sold" complies with the law. However, if you do your own modifications then you might be illegal, but unless you confess to your bikes illegal behavior you should be okay.

I've talked with police near my house who were doing a speed trap. They simply would ask me how fast my bike would go. Now in reality my bike can (with the right gearing) reach about 40 mph on the flat. (I'm currently running a lower gear and can't get above about 38 mph now) But the laws in my state limit my bike to 30 mph so I simply said:

"The laws of this state restrict me to 30 mph, so that's all I'm willing to confess to being able to do."

We have the right to not testify against ourselves and the police don't seem eager to press the issue. My state (Missouri) is pretty generous with the horsepower (up to three) and the speed. (30 mph)
 
i've also heard that australia is looking to introduce a 30 KPH limit in ADDITION to the 200w limit! :(:(:(
 
BiGH said:
i've also heard that australia is looking to introduce a 30 KPH limit in ADDITION to the 200w limit! :(:(:(
Click to expand...

hahahaha

my bike can't even get to 30kph at 200watts....

I did hear something about that as well but I believe they where going to raise the wattage to 300watts and then put the speed limit on
 
If I get pulled over which is more likely to happen riding a trike esp a velomobile, how will they test my system for having an overpowered bike?

I would also like to know if an electronic limiter can be used to limit maximum power legally as I have a cycleanalyst also.

I feel we are in a grey area here and it will largely depend on the police persons discresion to whether or not I will be able to continue my journey.
 
At some point do you guys in Australia (and Europe too) start to wonder if it's a good idea to simply go up to the next category of being a motorcycle?

:arrow: In America the 750 watt limit is enough to get some fun out of it, but 250 watts is next to nothing.

I think if America did like you guys and set the limit at 250 watts I'd probably want to go for the motorcycle instead. I've owned a motorcycle and it's not that bad to have a license and insurance. It all depends on your price expectations... if you are willing to spend some serious dollars (like a few thousand dollars) for a motorcycle then the license and insurance seems small as a percentage. But if you really just want a "free" bicycle then it looks like a bad thing to do.

Here in Missouri I can pull a full three horsepower legally, but I'm going to focus more on the 750 watt standard because it's more universal. I might make my creations adjustable so as to be able to test it under different legal environments.

I might even try a 250 watt version just to see if it's any fun to ride...
 
I have some old motorcycles/scooters and the insurance and reg aint that bad. One example, I rode a little Elite 80 Honda scooter that was $18 to reg and about as much to insure. Only reason I recall is that was the least I've ever paid. More of a worry than cost would be the lack of a VIN and all the DMV hoops.
 
vanilla ice said:
I have some old motorcycles/scooters and the insurance and reg aint that bad. One example, I rode a little Elite 80 Honda scooter that was $18 to reg and about as much to insure. Only reason I recall is that was the least I've ever paid. More of a worry than cost would be the lack of a VIN and all the DMV hoops.
Click to expand...

I used to own an FZR600.

cost $200 to get my Learners permit to learn to ride then $200 to get my Probationary license (which after 12 months turned into a full license).

Registration on the bike was $500 a year. I risked it and didn't insure it (the bike itself was worth $2000).

But this is a 600cc motorbike - i'm sure we could get the ebikes clasified closer to a scooter or a moped - which is a lot cheaper. But still its not super cheap, either way its definately more of a green option.

BTW the limit is 200w not 250w so its even worse than you originally thought! They are trying to get legislation in to limit the speed to 30kph too - which means that its going to be not worth it for many bike motor manufacturers.

commercial ebikes here already suck, the only legal kit i konw of that is any good is the Alan's elation kit, all the other kits are over the power limit, anyways i think we should move this disucssion to a dedicated thread! - here we go http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=34276#34276
 
Fush,
Power output is at the motor.
You have losses along the way from your controller. So 250 watt input at the controller is about 175 watt motor out put.
Rob
 
I was able to get 17.1k (this doesn't include letting a friend take the bike for some spurts aorund the carpark) before the first power cutout out of the YESA pack travelling at high speeds 40kph + most of the time and up hills etc with wind. I didn't charge it before using it (it measured 81.2v before the ride).

After the cutout, turning off the controller then disconnecting the batteries gave another 2k at reduced speeds (it tripped twice). giving a total distance ridden (that i could figure from google maps of 19klms). pretty good, but sadly not enough to get me to work and back. once the other set of lifepo4s arrive (solarbbq's ones) that should give me a total distance around 38k (the 2 packs in parallel would mean the discharge amount would be lower, but it would also mean that the weight would be higher) - this is sufficient. I can then get a 2nd set of chargers for charging at work (25k one way) and just charge twice a day. This would be cheaper than petrol - however the life of the packs would halve....

its still cheaper than petrol!

When i got back from the ride, before popping on the charger the battery pack was at 78.4v. It looks like a cell might have been out of balance - the BMS for the yesa pack monitors individual cells which is good.

this out of 72v 12ah packs. not too bad!.

I think i need to invest in some chargers and litter them at regular places - ie work, g/f's place.

I was worried that the pack's BMS fets were only rated to 55v and would cause a bms failure after the cutout - but it appears as though they have done their job perfectly. I'm very pleased with the yesa packs. The chargers are noisy but thats becuase they have fans in them!

I need to get more chargers as well as a Cycleanalyst to determine how much power i'm using.

I will do another run on the batteries when they're charged. (i want to ensure the chargers work right).
 
assuming i got 19klms on the pack i was getting 73.2 watts per mile...

My charge just finished as well. I measured the voltage hot off the charger - 87.1v!!!

i'm going to let the cells settle for about 10-20mins. i'm not sure what the "fully charged" voltage of the cells should be. this might be the reason i was only able to travel 19klms on them - should be higher than that.

will edit this post when i have more info.

edit 2: - they're now at 86.4v - settling a bit more...

i have to say the chargers are fairly cool - they have fans that run during most of the charging cycle, then when the cells are almost fully charged, the fans switch off, and final charging occurs... i don't konw enough about this, will have to do some research.
 
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