Bionx Anyone?

[tomasdipagio]

Hey, big fat newbie question here.

I've got a sweet hard tail mountain bike with dual disk brakes that I want to convert and ride to work everyday. I'm in So. Cal. in kind of a hilly region, meaning long climbs and equally long sections of steepish coasting, and the weather's good most of the time. Gas here is going to be 5 bucks a gallon by September, no doubt. I'd ride daily now, but the hills leave me a little ripe by the end of the day. And by that, I mean I offend myself. Who knows what other's experience :|

So I've been looking around and I really like the Crystalite rear hub stuff, but I've got this dual disk brake situation that can't easily be rectified by adding rear V brakes without physically altering the frame. Then I looked into the Bionx kits and I'm really intrigued by their hub and computer system with regen braking (remember long steepish downhills) and built in accommodation for the rear disk brake.

Any of you guys have experience with this product? Reputation? Reliability? I know the controller is built into the hub motor so it probably doesn't appeal to the more knowledgeable tweaking end of this community. But I'm thinking it might be a good jumping off point for me while my electronics mojo catches up with my ability wrench like nobody's business.

Any insight and opinion is greatly appreciated.

Tomas

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

Bionx is excellent and easy but expensive for what you get.

Geared hubs are good for hills

This geared Front Hub will work with disc brakes:
http://www.ebikes.ca/ezee/

This geared Rear Hub (better for steep hills than the Front Hub) will work with disc brakes:
http://www.texaselectricbikes.com/catalog/brushless-geared-motor-p-163.html

The Ebike Components on this bike cost about the same as a higher end Bionx kit:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4506

Jonathan let me ride this bike the past weekend and it is amazingly fast. 32mph uphill! And it out accelerated cars quite easily.

More information on hub motors here:
http://www.ebikes.ca/hubmotors.shtml

You could also go with a Cyclone Kit or components. Search the forum or look here:
http://www.cyclone-usa.com/index.php
http://www.cyclone-tw.com/

Good Luck!

Mitch

 

[andys]

I second the rear hub from Texas electric bikes. Very efficient, very light weight, very powerful hill climbing. I just got my second one. You still need to modify the bike to run it, as you need to make room for the thumb throttle, and have to basically change the bike into a 7 speed (new chain, adjustments to limit rear derailer, etc.) I lose the front derailer, as you won't need anything but the big chain ring with a "Lance in a hub" powering your rear wheel. I move the rear shifter to my left side of the handle bars. I got a 15AH Lifepo4 battery that has twice the range I will ever need with that hub-like 35 miles.

The bionx is a nice kit but is kind of expensive for what you get. I think I prefer the thumb throttle power on demand to pedal assist, although both work, and the top of the line Bionx kit has both. Brake regen on a bike isn't really needed in my opinion either, and that is one of their bragging points. I like to fly down hills.

 

[pwbset]

I'm really intrigued by their hub and computer system with regen braking (remember long steepish downhills)

Waste of time/money etc. to buy regen... not enough inertia/weight to make it worthwhile. On my commute home it's downhill at 10% or more for like 30 minutes... think I've gotten back at best 0.050ah or something equally pathetic on my Clyte 4011, which starts regen at like 17-18mph at lower voltages. .02

 

[Anonymous]

.

 

[tomasdipagio]

Thanks for the great replies. Yet more websites to bookmark and devour.... I appreciate your insight. I had an inkling the regen thing is kind of hype, but I've got some really mean long hills to coast down and since I'm mid forties, 220 lbs, self employed with limited life insurance, not braking is out of the question. How cool is it to use the motor to slow down than asbestos and steel?

I'll check out all those links and options before jumping in. I didn't think I could test ride an ebike around here, but you got me wondering why not!

Thanks guys!

Tom

 

[ericslai]

I have run my Bionx PL350 with 26" rear wheel for over a year now. It was on a Rans crank forward bike for 2,000 miles and it worked perfectly. Now it is on my home built carbon fiber tadpole trike, it is even better than on the bike. As long as your expectation is set to power assist, this is the most sophisticated product in the market. Regarding the regen, the motor vibrates/pulses in the braking mode so it may tickle your nerves especially when the battery is close to full. You have to try it to understand what I mean. Otherwise the regen mode is a low priority feature. It is a very good drag brake though.

As you have hills, you have to estimate your range. My power meter is not very accurate. When the meter was showing the last bar, the rest voltage of the battery was at 39.....V. So far, I have not run the battery to flat yet. My commute is 20 miles each way and I recharge it at work. The route is mostly flat in the Silicon Valley. Oh, if you can pedal faster than 23 mph, you will not get power assist from the Bionx PL350. The PL500 may be faster but it is not for hills.

 

[tomasdipagio]

@ericslai:
Thanks. I'm really torn between the power assist concept and the twist throttle and go approach. I know you can pedal along with any system so long as your gears are high enough to match your speed. I spend a heck of a lot of time at the gym, however, and I'd much rather be burning calories on the bike. The idea that I could dial in my contribution to an extent is appealing because I don't always want to work that hard.

With regard to pedal assist, do you find it feels like walking on those flat escalators in the airport: normal effort, twice the speed? ( that always makes me want to walk really fast....which tends to make my wife yell and groan. Of course, she has to carry all the bags....kidding.) Just curious. Also, did you, or can you, upgrade your batts to LiPo with the PL350?

@nutsandvolts:
I checked and found a dealer here in North San Diego who I may be able to test drive a couple of bikes with. Thanks for that suggestion!

Tom

 

[ericslai]

With the power assist, you will feel that you are way more stronger than you are. I mean you can use much higher gearing than you normally would. It is still a work out if you want to. You will go faster if you work harder. So at the stop sign, you need to down change a few gears then you can start the bike/trike. I for one used to run 52x14 on the flat but have to use 52x28 to start without putting too much pressure on my knees. With the help of the Shimano DA thumb shifters, it is a breeze to change gear many times in a few seconds.

Due to the inaccuracy of the power meter, I added a 37V 10Ah Batteryspace Li-Polymer to parallel the Bionx battery pack to increase the capacity. Now I can see that it is over capacity because my charging consumption is always less than 400 Whr. This data is from the Kill-a-watt.

 

[DahonElectric]

Tomas,

I was in the same situation as you are. High gas prices and tired of the hills, eventhough I am fit (I do compete competitively in run and cycle races). I never considered an electrical assist bike at all, because I and I'm sure a lot of very fit and real cyclists would consider this as a "lazy person" alternative to bicycles. But after test riding a BIONX equipped bike, my views on e-bike changed. Suffice to say, I got the low end NiMH version and had it installed on my Dahon Mu SL. So far, it's working great.

The reason I chose BIONX as opposed to others is because, this is the most reliable and truest pedal assist system ever conceived. A BIONX system expects you to pedal to realize its potential, namely flattening any hills you encounter along the way while pedalling. If you are planning NOT to pedal most of the time, then I would recommend other systems like Ezee, Crystallite, BMC etc.. are better in terms of power/best bang for the buck and who came from a car culture (going faster than 20mph/32km/h) up to 70km/h, the BIONX is not for you. I live in Vancouver, BC, Canada and I've seen and met a few e-bikes that go that fast on the road (more than 32km/h) (basically violating the BC vehicle act in terms of ebike performance) and riding in a unsafe condition. You can also tell that the rider isn't a true cyclist, probably a recent car convert. If this is you, then BIONX is not for you.

I choose the P250 system simply because, I can attain relatively good speeds with it up to 32km/h on the flats and about 26km/h on the hills (average 25km/h up Inverness from Marine Drive) and I find this to be more than sufficient.

You need to remember that buying an e-bike kit is basically buying a pre-paid gas card, which allows you to hedge against rising fuel prices. This is the money that you would otherwise be spending on your car, but is used to convert your bike into an "e".

I would only recommend a BIONX if you plan to stay true to cycling and not use the throttle option too much, because its unique feature is infinite gearing, meaning if you stay at 52/13, it will match power to your power to provide forward propulsion at aerobic effort without shifting down to a 24/32 if you have a regular bike. So treat a BIONX bike as an infinite gearing system, whereas something like an ezee or Crystallite would be purely power assist based.

Hope this helps.

 

[Drunkskunk]

@ericslai:
Thanks. I'm really torn between the power assist concept and the twist throttle and go approach. I know you can pedal along with any system so long as your gears are high enough to match your speed. I spend a heck of a lot of time at the gym, however, and I'd much rather be burning calories on the bike. The idea that I could dial in my contribution to an extent is appealing because I don't always want to work that hard.
Tom

it sounds like a great idea to read about.
But in practice, you may find having a throttle to be more practicle.
You can pedal along with eather motor, but with a conventional throttle, you can add exactly the power you want, in real time, like to spurt ahead of a car that just started to turn into you, or that angry dog that just poped out from behind the bush, ect, ect.
there is also the redundancy feature of a throttle. break a chain, bend the derailer, blow out your knee, your ankle, your back, ect, and you can drive a throttled bike home like a motorbike. Its Not possable on the Bionx system. I've limped home a few times now from several problems that would have left me stranded.

I'd recomend a Puma, or other similar internaly geared hub if you have hills to contend with.

 

[deardancer3]

@ericslai:

it sounds like a great idea to read about.
But in practice, you may find having a throttle to be more practicle.
You can pedal along with eather motor, but with a conventional throttle, you can add exactly the power you want, in real time, like to spurt ahead of a car that just started to turn into you, or that angry dog that just poped out from behind the bush, ect, ect. .

The Bionx can be ordered with a throttle, and it can be programmed for zero start.

d