BMI cells

[pgt400]

The "Raymond" that you mention (Raymond King) is now working for LiFeBATT and is no longer associated with PSI or BMI".

Hope thats not true....or someone else at PSI offers the grey cells at ~$25 each. I was planning on buying in the spring. Definately won't be buying the VERY, VERY pricey Lifebatt packs.

 

[Battboy]

The "Raymond" that you mention (Raymond King) is now working for LiFeBATT and is no longer associated with PSI or BMI".

Hope thats not true....or someone else at PSI offers the grey cells at ~$25 each. I was planning on buying in the spring. Definately won't be buying the VERY, VERY pricey Lifebatt packs.

It's true as of yesterday my friend. Whoever offered you the grey cells @ $ 25.00 would be the one you need to talk to ? Did they give you a minimum quantity for that price ?

Best,

Don Harmon

 

[TPA]

so where do you find BMI cells?

 

[pgt400]

"It's true as of yesterday my friend. Whoever offered you the grey cells @ $ 25.00 would be the one you need to talk to ? Did they give you a minimum quantity for that price ?

Don Harmon"

Yes, PSI's in single user quantity (my case 96) was not a problem. According to the chipmunk on Lifebatt website, he wants about $5.5k for 72v/40 AH. Thats one pricey rodent! Definately not an option for most hobbyist....only the EV obsessed need apply! I make six figures.... but can't justify spending over 5k for batteries! Options will no doubt arise as there is definately a moderate-priced market to fill.

Paging Raymonds replacement !!!

 

[Battboy]

I don't know about your arrangement with PSI as far as the pricing but here is a source for BMI cells from Texas:

http://www.vistarwebtech.com/VistarWebTech/eBike/post/16-BMI-LiFePO4-Cells-FOR-SALE.aspx

I think if you add up the cost and then add for a BMS, LVC, Case, etc. you will find the LiFeBATT price not so bad. Also, do you get a 3 year warranty with your BMI or PSI Cells ? I honestly don't know and would like to hear what they offer in the way of a warranty for their loose cells ? I realize warranties are not important to many people - but it's often a sign of how confidant they are in their product and their "after-sale" service.

Best Regards,

Don Harmon

 

[mcstar]

I don't know about your arrangement with PSI as far as the pricing but here is a source for BMI cells from Texas:

http://www.vistarwebtech.com/VistarWebT ... -SALE.aspx

Thanks for the plug Don. Here's my thoughts on warranties.


I'm as confident as you are in these products, but many people are building custom solutions with the batteries I'm selling. I'm offering them for that purpose since we need to get them out to the people that are going to use them to build new things with them at lowest cost we can for their use in experimentation and research. I find that some people are using other BMS/LVC mechanisms and chargers of various sources and they are using their expertise to guide them and prevent destroying their investment. I want to support those that are doing the ground work to research new and innovative products and uses. They are the people that would, if given one of your packs, take it apart and re-work it to fit a new purpose, not the guys that want a finished product ready to plug into something. I see you and I as supporting different but complimentary markets. You're supporting the consumer, I'm supporting the R&D guys. We will definitely need more consumable products as the R&D guys find cool new ways to use the products. While the R&D guys are using their expertise to protect their investment, the product consumer will need your complete packages with predefined limits imposed by the hardware to protect them from damaging theirs.

As my customers develop products that use these cells and come up with complete packages ready to sell to customers, I will work with them to offer warranties on those finish products.

 

[pgt400]

Not bad? Lifebatt cost is sky high! And BMI at $50 a cell is ok maybe for a 24-36v 10ah ebike, but not for the DIY EV'er. Just look at evalbum....ZERO people using them! Not blaming you, they cost what they cost and/or will sell for what the market will bare....I'm just over anxious for the price to come down to an acceptable level so I can use the technology.

 

[Battboy]

That sure sounds perfectly reasonable to me ! LiFeBATT will also offer a new line of e-bike "plug & play' packs next year which will take the burden off of those who don't want to tear apart drill packs or other pre-made packs to build their own e-bike pack. We DO cater to the "consumer market" - who want a turn-key solution (and a warranty) and not the DIY crowd who likes to tinker and invent. There is certainly room for BOTH types of products in this emerging market, and we welcome different approaches.

We all learn from each other and that's a good thing !

Best,

Don Harmon

 

[mcstar]

Not bad? Lifebatt cost is sky high! And BMI at $50 a cell is ok maybe for a 24-36v 10ah ebike, but not for the DIY EV'er. Just look at evalbum....ZERO people using them! Not blaming you, they cost what they cost and/or will sell for what the market will bare....I'm just over anxious for the price to come down to an acceptable level so I can use the technology.

You're correct, the price is pretty high for a reasonably sized EV. This is the next area I'm working to address. I can, and have, gotten discounts for people that order 100+ cells. This reduces the cost quite a bit. You won't be able to get them down to $25 each, but you can definately save some $$ that way.

Drop me a pm with the qty you're looking for and I'll get you the best quote I can.

 

[Gow864]

LIFEBATT! I am so sick of hearing from lifebatt how good their cells are. I DON'T CARE how good they are. they are just TOO EXPENSIVE!

CAN YOU HEAR ME!!!! THEY ARE TOO EXPENSIVE!!!

I can buy 2 full sets of TS cells for my bike for less than the cost of one lifebatt pack!!!! WAKE UP!

What is your profit margiin? 30-50% it would have to be wouldn't it?

Go away LIFEBATT, come back when you know how to price your products.

GO CHINA, rip off those (greedy pig) patent owners!

end of rant!

Gow.

 

[Battboy]

Not bad? Lifebatt cost is sky high! And BMI at $50 a cell is ok maybe for a 24-36v 10ah ebike, but not for the DIY EV'er. Just look at evalbum....ZERO people using them! Not blaming you, they cost what they cost and/or will sell for what the market will bare....I'm just over anxious for the price to come down to an acceptable level so I can use the technology.

I am also anxious for the price to come down to an acceptable level so I can earn a decent income.....LOL!
Seriously, in this business you have to have a lot of volume and offer a great product which at first requires a big investment in technology and very expensive equipment to start a modern manufacturing facility. Up to now all LiFePO4 has been based on a very labor intensive "hand made" process. It takes time to ramp up production and significant large volume orders to happen before you will see the prices come down - but it is happening as we speak - and in the next few years you will see this take place as the world economy demands green solutions for the marketplace.

Don

 

[Gow864]

Don, your problem is that it may be too late for lifebatt. At the same time that your prices come down so will your competitors, that is already happening, TS for AU$1.65 per AH, what are yours? US$4???

If lifebatt were onlly 10% more than TS I would buy them, but not at 100% not a chance.

Good luck.

 

[pgt400]

I just wish PSI would sell cells direct, on ebay even or to a large battery distributor in the US. I'd be surprised if the cells build cost is more then $10 or $12 each (since they offered at $25 each). Good news is there are 10x the Lifepo4 dealers now then there was even 6 months ago on ebay....look at Ping, his customers love his service and cells. We need a "PSI" Ping connection. TS and Hi-power seem to be getting better too. And the early reports on the new green covered Headways sounds good.....at $19 a cell. That puts the cost at about 4-5x SLA's which I'd be willing to pay for the benefits Lifepo4's offer.

 

[Ypedal]

ebay sucks imo.. opens the door to a bad rap.. what cyclone does is borderline with cheap shrink over no bms and no box to protect the cells.. making a good product look bad in the wrong hands..

I may disagree with Don on many things but not his prices.

You can't earn a living on not making a cent, and this is what many people do just to earn a reputation ..

What McStar is doing i think is a great thing.. alot of guys who are able and willing to do graet things with bare cells ( and guys like me who enjoy trying ) but you have to screen your customers.

 

[Battboy]

Don, your problem is that it may be too late for lifebatt. At the same time that your prices come down so will your competitors, that is already happening, TS for AU$1.65 per AH, what are yours? US$4???

If lifebatt were onlly 10% more than TS I would buy them, but not at 100% not a chance.

Good luck.

In case you haven't already read it - LiFeBATT does not sell individual Cells, so your comparison is moot.

Don

 

[mcstar]

I have to laugh at the profit speculation. I can tell you for sure that Mr. Harmon most likely making a lower % of profit per pack than the government is getting on each gallon of gasoline. So, the next time you're at the pump you'll have something to think about as you watch your hard earned $$ flow into the tank. At least the battery will still be there serving you in 3 years, and 5 years etc. Can you say the same thing about the tank of gas?

 

[pgt400]

ebay sucks imo.. opens the door to a bad rap.. what cyclone does is borderline with cheap shrink over no bms and no box to protect the cells.. making a good product look bad in the wrong hands..

Maybe for him but apparently not for PING.... 100% approval rating! His customer rave about him! Dozens of customers on this forum alone.

I may disagree with Don on many things but not his prices. Maybe not, but you don't buy his packaged/bms cells either! You were the one that connected me with Raymond?

You can't earn a living on not making a cent, and this is what many people do just to earn a reputation . Can't make a living NOT selling either....where does Lifebatt sell their packed cells/BMS? I've been looking for over 20 minutes now and can't find one customer here or V is for V?? Must be selling to other markets? Medical? De-fibs maybe?

What McStar is doing i think is a great thing.. alot of guys who are able and willing to do graet things with bare cells ( and guys like me who enjoy trying ) but you have to screen your customers.

Yeah, like connect them together to make a battery! I mean come on, ES is a DIY EV forum no?

 

[Battboy]

It doesn't specify that E.S. is strictly a DIY forum anywhere that I can see ? In fact on the most recent Yahoo "Group Buy" for Headway - almost 90% of the buyers opted for complete battery packs, including BMS and most of them ordered a case too ? About 10% opted for loose cells to "string together" themselves to make a battery ! You can check with Joshua G. on this but that's what I heard - so I question your point of view, my friend. Not everyone here is specifically interested in building their own LiFePO4 battery pack.

Don Harmon

 

[Gow864]

Don. There you go getting involved in one-upping... YOU ARE TOO EXPENSIVE!!! CAN YOU HEAR ME????


mcstar. I don''t buy gas, i have an old motoX converted to EV with TS cells. I couldn't be happier with it. my diesel runs on cooking oil (at least as long as i can sustain my free supply)..

 

[mcstar]

Sounds like you're good to go. Nice job.

 

[pgt400]

It doesn't specify that E.S. is strictly a DIY forum anywhere that I can see ? In fact on the most recent Yahoo "Group Buy" for Headway - almost 90% of the buyers opted for complete battery packs, including BMS and most of them ordered a case too ? About 10% opted for loose cells to "string together" themselves to make a battery ! You can check with Joshua G. on this but that's what I heard - so I question your point of view, my friend. Not everyone here is specifically interested in building their own LiFePO4 battery pack.

Don Harmon

Don, nobody said it was specificaly a DIY Lifepo4 battery building forum...but it IS a DIY EV forum. Look around DIY bikes, BMS's, LVC, scooters, motorcycles and even battery building / testing. Of course theres a market for a finished premium, high dollar solution....just not much of one here obviously. Can you point me to one person here using your battery/bms? The only guy I could find blew the BMS during the first ride.

 

[Battboy]

There is One guy at least here that I know of - his screen name is Mirocar. I do not know who you refer to that blew a BMS - can you qualify your comment, please ? We have a large group of Electricrider customers who regularly purchase our HPS Packs for e-bikes. Particularly those using the Phoenix Motor Kit that Electririder sells. I don' know if any of these people are members of this forum or not ? Most of our customers do not come from forums in general. There is another market out there that doesn't frequent the forums like we all do 8)

Best,

Don Harmon

 

[pgt400]

Don it was Jay64....

"I don't know if there is a fuse inside the battery pack or not. I know for sure the white smoke was coming out of that hole in the Lifebatt battery pack".

I think he said his LVC died, he has jumpered around it and apparently is waiting for a "Gary" to resolve.... Maybe didn't buy from you directly ?

 

[Battboy]

I do not believe he bought from us directly. Since you mentioned Gary - he may have purchased an original pack made by Gary using Gary's BMS ???? Not sure without further documentation but it doesn't sound like one of our HPS Packs to me.

Don

 

[voicecoils]

I do not believe he bought from us directly. Since you mentioned Gary - he may have purchased an original pack made by Gary using Gary's BMS ???? Not sure without further documentation but it doesn't sound like one of our HPS Packs to me.

Don

No, not a HPS pack. 48v10ah pack connected with fibreglass plates at the posts IIRC.

Jay64's a professional motorcycle racer, but needs help to get up to speed riding EVs with equipment and expertise. He should be running a sponsored bike stuffed with LiFeBATT branded cells. Talk about advertising potential!