Bosch Li-Ion 18V 1.3Ah battery ... are these Konions? Or?

[LI-ghtcycle]

Hello, I am trying to determine what exactly I have in my possession. All I know is what is on the data plate of the battery, I know that it says 18V Li-Ion 1.3 AH and that it's made up of 5 cells.

I have been successful charging 2 of these batteries in series with a SLA 36V chrager, and I get a total voltage of 21.5, which is 4.3V per cell, and I am theorizing that these might be 3.7V Konion cells, but since they are only 1.3 Ah, I am wondering if they are an older version?

Mainly I am looking to guard against getting these batteries too low. I am currently using them on a very light load, back-lighting my Trail Tech Moto-Computer/Digital Speedo.

I plan in the future to power several LED lights (blinkers, dual 900 Lumen headlights, taillight) with these same batteries, but I don't want to risk dropping the cells too low, and I wanted to know what would be a good rule of thumb to try and prevent an excessive DOD so I don't damage these cells since these packs do not have their own BMS.

Thanks!

 

[TPA]

Konions!
4.3v is a bit too high, try to get down to 4.2

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Konions!
4.3v is a bit too high, try to get down to 4.2

Good to know, thanks for the info.

Is it safe to assume then that I could get a charger like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200437545783&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

to charge them up? Granted I would have to do some modifications to make it work with this specific battery (i.e. custom connectors)

 

[TPA]

I'm not sure, but I think this was covered in the bosch fatpack thread. If that charger was originally meant for the battery you want, then yes, but you have to trick it with a custom pack because the charger wants some feedback through the other pins that are there. I'm pretty sure it's talked about here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=7569

 

[John in CR]

If you want them to live longer, only charge them to 4.05v or 4.1v . Those are the VT cells, not the V cells. Bosch charges their packs to 4.1 for a reason.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

So what is the safe LVC for these cells? 3V? 2.5v?

 

[Doctorbass]

It seems that one more time on the E-S I need to explain the difference between the "1.3Ah" pack and the 3Ah pack Konions cells.. Sorry for this rolling eyes but... it's been probaby 20 times that i re-explain that ...

The "1.3Ah" pack are in reallyty using the 18650VT cells that are rated 1.1Ah when they are charged to their RECOMMANDED voltage of 4.1V not 4.2V.. like the 18650V

The 18650VT of 4.1V 1.1Ah are capable of holding 15C.. or close to 20A burst but have less capacity but have better internal resistance. We find them in the makita 18V "1.5Ah or 1.3Ah" depending on the country they are sold...
or in the Bosh fatpack 36V.. where they are mounted in 10s2p for 2.2Ah 37V(36V...)

The Makita 18V 3Ah does use the 18650V cells that are REALLY 1.5 to 1.6Ah but are capable of 10C.. not 15C like the VT cells. But the V cells are 4.2V.. not 4.1V like the VT

V: 1.1Ah charge to 4.2V
VT: 1.5Ah charge to 4.1V

If you charge the VT cells to 4.2V they will give you 1.3Ah just like it's claimed....but will last no more than 200-300 cycles

Doc

 

[Doctorbass]

So what is the safe LVC for these cells? 3V? 2.5v?

Recommanded LVC for both VT or V cells: 3.0V for current under 2C and 2.5v for current up to 10C

BUT I will always recommand to cut at around 3.3V.. that prolomg their life twice time!

But manufactur recommanded is 3.0V

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Thanks, good to know, the biggest struggle I have had with these packs is not being able to locate what country they are sold in, my best guess is UK/AUS, but idk, I have seen many, many, MANY posts about the fat packs and the slim packs but nothing on my packs.

I'm still new to this stuff, thanks for being patient with me. :wink:

 

[RoughRider]

@LI
i have to tell you, that in the pacs are NO konions inside...

in this packs are cells from LG inside...they are a red shrink...

this cells are LiMn too...

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

@LI
i have to tell you, that in the pacs are NO konions inside...

in this packs are cells from LG inside...they are a red shrink...

this cells are LiMn too...

Thank you!!

I have been trying for so long to get ANY info I can specific to these packs. Can you tell me where I can get a charger for these? If not, can you tell me how much they can be charged to?

I have charged them only one cycle with 36V SLA "smart" charger (by putting 2 equal voltage 18V packs in series) and they were at 21.5V hot off the charger, but I have not tested to see how well balanced they are, but I can do that pretty easy.

 

[RoughRider]

like the konions this cells are LiMn...you can charge them to 4,1 or 4,2V...

i charged and discharged this cells with 2C and they worked very good...

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

like the konions this cells are LiMn...you can charge them to 4,1 or 4,2V...

i charged and discharged this cells with 2C and they worked very good...

Good to know, any idea where I can get the bosch charger that goes with them?

 

[TPA]

It seems that one more time on the E-S I need to explain the difference between the "1.3Ah" pack and the 3Ah pack Konions cells.. Sorry for this rolling eyes but... it's been probaby 20 times that i re-explain that ...
Doc

...so do a writeup in the technical section, and when it comes up just post a link to the writeup.

That is, if you haven't already.

 

[RoughRider]

try to get the charger on ebay...

 

[Doctorbass]

like the konions this cells are LiMn...you can charge them to 4,1 or 4,2V...

i charged and discharged this cells with 2C and they worked very good...

I also have been always charging the 2p group of konion 1.5Ah to 5A current so it's 2.5A per cell and they take it very well.. no heat.. no noticable damage.

Doc

 

[cassschr1]

Only way for sure is to open the pack up an see whats on the cells. Ive opened about 30 ridgid packs so far and found sanyo red,emoli grey, LS -a light purple color.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Ok, I'll open one up and see what it says on the cells.

I have looked on Ebay for a charger, but none seem to match these packs, that's ok they need a BMS anyway, be good for me to learn on.

 

[RoughRider]

this cells dont have a BMS inside...so they DONT need one...like the konions...

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Ok, I opened the batteries up again, and yes they are all red cells, and look to be LG like you described, but there aren't any legible markings on the cells.

Are not LiMn, these LG's required to have a BMS to keep them balanced?

 

[RoughRider]

under the red shrink are the marks...

this cells are LiMg and the dont need BMS...

look in your tool packs...there is NO bms...

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Here are some pics:

I know the tool packs don't have a BMS, but that doesn't mean that the charger/tools don't have at least some form of LVC or a full BMS.

The closest to getting actual information on these packs is I have seen them for sale on Ebay, but never any chargers that are compatible.

If anyone can tell me the details on the chargers that go with these packs (if they even exist) I'd be very appreciative.

Thanks!



P.S. I know that ideas differ on the use of a BMS, I'm not judging anyone's desire to use or not use a BMS, just wanting to locate a OE charger since I prefer to use the BMS personally :wink: