Muad'dib said:
Hey boostjuice, I am thinking about getting a cyclone kit, can you give any more tips about them? Is it so simple as: >1kw = frying the controller and <1kw = your ok? Does the 900 watt motor they offer have the planetary gears? They don't give this information on their website. Can you get the higher wattage motor and just buy a higher quality controller from somewhere else?
It's not about the motor controller being undersized for the power demands of the motor (although the big Cyclone motors can safely produce much more power with upgraded controllers, such as their 3000watt kit which simply includes a 100A kelly controller), rather its about gearing the motor correctly so it doesn't inefficiently and consistantly draw massive current from the controller that it is only turning into heat, not rotational energy, at low rpm. The standard controller is current limited to about 55A, but if it provides this for more than short bursts (such as accelerating from a standstill), the heatsinking ability of the controller casing is swamped and the MOSFETS overheat. So while the controller can provide dynamic bursts of >2600W, it cannot sustain this without failure. That is why on the cyclone website it states "Controller will burn if overloaded for more than 30 secs".
They know the non-planetary gearbox motors are not geared down enough for most bikes but they cant seem to think of any cheap and simple way of providing the extra reduction required. Gearing that isnt just sprockets and chains cost big money relative to the total kit price, and the planetary gearboxes used with the smaller motors cannot tolerate the torque provided by the big motors. IMHO What they really should do is incorporate a second jackshaft with the motor mounting bracket and have a two stage belt/chain reduction which is what i would suggest anyone fabricate who is in Kaño's situation.
This custom made extra gear reduction is a cheap way to make the non-planetary gearbox motors work effectively with the riders natural pedal cadence, especially on 26" wheeled bikes which have a lower wheel rpm to speed ratio.
My suggestion would be something like this;
If a bottom bracket shell was welded or clamped onto the downtube, then a bottom bracket could be installed as the jackshaft and sprockets/pulleys could be easily built on this to form a second reduction stage. Another alternative would be to fabricate an downward extending motor bracket out of alluminium channel whereby a jackshaft of some sort could be installed through it. Overall you need about a 30:1 reduction, and a first stage belt drive would be prefferable to cut down on noise, but i am unsure whether a belt strong enough to take the torque would not be really wide and intrude on the pedal stroke. If chain was used for both stages, you could use a larger motor sprocket which would reduce high rpm chain noise during the 1st stage. If using chain, something like 10T>44T 1st stage, then 6T>44T second stage gives 32.26:1 overall reduction which would be appropriate, but proabably still quite noisy.
The sweetspot for the motor is 2200rpm, so 2200/32.26 = a comfortable 68rpm pedal cadence to match the motors 'happy' speed.
Personally, to gain the required extra reduction and avoid the need to downgrade my sealed cartridge bearing Bottom bracket to the cup&ball-cock-legged-long-spindle version included with the kit i have done major re-engineering with my bike. Basically whilst i love the power and quality of my large cyclone motor and controller, i hate the design and bad quality of the rest of the kit which i have discarded it in favour of a complicated but effective alternative. Unfortunately my solution is impractical and overly expensive for 99% of people but you can see what ive done over here;
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=7558&p=114161&hilit=cyclone#p114161
The two motor styles offered by Cyclone both have their pro's and cons. To make matters worse, their overlapping power ratings between the motor casing sizes makes things confusing. The power range of their planetery geared motors goes up to 1200W according to their website. I suspect that all their planetary motors have the same motor but with varying ratings of the internal/external motor controllers, or at least different current limits. The higher power rated planetary motors are also reported to often overheat and temporarily shutdown because the smaller thermal mass, poor cooling and integrated controller swamps them with heat so quickly. Again, they know about this problem because they are now offering these for sale....
The planetary box motors
PRO's
-More compact,
-The replacement pedal spindle in not as long as for the larger motors and is more symetrical in its extension either side of the frame
-integration of the gearbox, freewheel and controller into the one casing/unit makes them easier to mount on varying bike frames
-Offers the required reduction to operate efficiently whilst complimenting the riders natural pedal cadence.
-lighterweight
CON's
-More susceptible to overheating the internal motor controller as the circuitry is exposed to the motor's heat as well.
-Controller not upgradable (Well not easily)
-Noisy, (not that the larger motors dont suffer from high rpm chain noise in their standard kit configuration)
The Larger Non Planetary Motors
The larger motor casing sized kits are rated 1000W>3000W depending on the controller sent with the kit. The 1000W kits contain a controller made by Headline Motors taiwan and is probably what they consider the safe/conservative limit for the motor which is also made by them. However Cyclone soon realised they could take much more current than the Headline controller could provide and so started selling kits with varying Kelly controllers which provide more current.
http://www.kellycontroller.com/shop/?mod=cat&cat_id=41,22
PRO's
-Higher power and torque!
-Greater power potential from upgraded controllers
-greater thermal mass means it can sustain heavy loading longer
-external controller means heat from the controller and motor are not thermally coupled.
-Can be less noisy if setup in a custom manner (no planetary box "that sounds like a sick wasp on crack" to quote another ES member)
CON's
-Heavier and larger, means less places to mount it
-A longer and more unsymetrical pedal spindle required to mount in the standard location (due to the longer motor barrel length)
-Custom fabrication required to setup effectively on an large wheeled bikes where you want to pedal assist.
PS: if you look at the photo's on the cyclone website, the majority of the bikes with the 1000W+ kits are installed on 20" wheeled bikes whereby the pedals are effectively useless for assisting the motor as the ratio's are all wrong.
) I ride my bike, pedaling, using little throttle and saying: wow what a nice torque! 
