can someone comment on this combination battery and motor?

[ty cohen]

Okay, here's the commute: 7kms one way, 5% slope for 2km. I want to go up that hill at about 25kph to 30kph light pedal assisted. On the flats, I want to go around 35 to 40kph light pedal assisted. More would be nice, but I'll stick to those speeds for now. Rider: 160lbs, occasional cargo: trailer with 5yo child.

Thinking of a Ping 48v10ah and a 9c rear (listed as the rear fast motor) on ebikes.ca. Cost would be just under 1k with taxes.

Is this a good setup, or would I need better components? Should I increase the ah of the battery? I'd like it as light and as economical as possible, as I don't want to overdesign, nor do I want to underdesign the combination. Would be for 90+% commuting, <10% pleasure riding.

 

[morph999]

The Ping's are only good for 1C unless they've improved their chemistry. You might go with a 48v15AH ping just to be sure. If you got a garage or some way to store them, I think LIPO is the way to go these days. Lots of people complaining about ping batteries on the forums.

 

[wesnewell]

For such a short commute, anything over 5ah lipo is just wasted money. My kit cost $227.90 shipped. I'm 270lbs and get about 27mph (43kph) on level ground with a 5ah 14s lipo pack that cost $114. And I can get well over 10 miles with it at the speeds you want. Heck, I could do that with the 48V 7ah old ups batteries I used when I first got the kit (48V500W rear wheel kit). Spending a $K is a waste imo.

 

[dogman dan]

Yep. That kind of short ride could be done with lead batteries. But lipo is much lighter. 8)

To run the 9c motor properly, a 15 ah ping is advisable. It will last a lot longer than a 10 ah would. Pulling the trailer will make the motor pull even more watts, so a 10 ah may even cut out on the hill. Overkill for your range needs, but many do find themseles taking the long cut once the battery has a motor.

The main issue with lipo is having a safe place to charge, but you can easily avoid the problem of a safe place to charge at work.

 

[jwix]

wesnewell, what kit did you use? Advice on buying something similar? thanks!

 

[wineboyrider]

Get a bigger ping or get some lipo or get both? 8) 8)

 

[wesnewell]

wesnewell, what kit did you use? Advice on buying something similar? thanks!

This is the one I got but I won it on bid at $227.90. The motor is a GoldenMotor HBS-48V500W.

http://cgi.ebay.com/48V-500W-ELECTRIC-BICYCLE-ENGINE-E-BIKE-REAR-MOTOR-KIT-/370504366233?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5643c7f899

This is the same one, but it's cheaper on ebay. Unfortunately, shipping to Canada is extra. If you're close to the border and know someone there, it might pay to have it shipped there.

http://www.yescomusa.com/product.php?productid=727&page=1

 

[ty cohen]

Get a bigger ping or get some lipo or get both? 8) 8)

where can I find Lipo's?

Does anyone know who this seller is and if his batts are any good?
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Lithium-Ion-LiFePO4-Battery-48V-10AH-/110676465420?pt=US_Batteries&hash=item19c4d4d70c

wesnewell, what kit did you use? Advice on buying something similar? thanks!

This is the one I got but I won it on bid at $227.90. The motor is a GoldenMotor HBS-48V500W.

http://cgi.ebay.com/48V-500W-ELECTRIC-BICYCLE-ENGINE-E-BIKE-REAR-MOTOR-KIT-/370504366233?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5643c7f899

This is the same one, but it's cheaper on ebay. Unfortunately, shipping to Canada is extra. If you're close to the border and know someone there, it might pay to have it shipped there.

http://www.yescomusa.com/product.php?productid=727&page=1

This package does not come with a CycleAnalyst. Is one really that important to get??? It also says max speed 35kph. I don't think that'll cut it for me? I assume with a 48v batt, it'll go faster?????????

How do you find this motor? Is is good and what battery pack are you using?

 

[wesnewell]

where can I find Lipo's?

Most people buy from hobbyking.com

Does anyone know who this seller is and if his batts are any good?
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Lithium-Ion-LiFePO4-Battery-48V-10AH-/110676465420?pt=US_Batteries&hash=item19c4d4d70c

Look at the specs. Unless your controller is limited to 20A (mine draws 31A max) it won't meet minimum current specs.

This package does not come with a CycleAnalyst. Is one really that important to get??? It also says max speed 35kph. I don't think that'll cut it for me? I assume with a 48v batt, it'll go faster?????????

I rode without anything for months. finally got the Bobby King HK-010 for $18.99. It will do all you need and more. It will do more than 35kph. I get 43 out of mine with 14s lipo pack. Got 40kph with 48V SLA batteries. And I'm 270lbs. I would suspect a 160lb rider would get more. I did replace the 1.75 tire it came with, and also used my 7 spd freewheel.

How do you find this motor? Is is good and what battery pack are you using?

I found the motor kit on ebay. It was in the US, so I bought it. I'm using a 15C 5ah 14s lipo pack made up of two Zippy Flightmax 5S packs and one 4s pack in series. The motor number was on the hub (HBS-48V500W) so I googled it.

 

[ty cohen]

The Ping's are only good for 1C unless they've improved their chemistry. You might go with a 48v15AH ping just to be sure. If you got a garage or some way to store them, I think LIPO is the way to go these days. Lots of people complaining about ping batteries on the forums.

I thought Pings v2.5 are max continuous discarge is at 2C with a max peak discarge at 4C??

 

[kriskros]

try golden motor canada

 

[neptronix]

The Ping's are only good for 1C unless they've improved their chemistry. You might go with a 48v15AH ping just to be sure. If you got a garage or some way to store them, I think LIPO is the way to go these days. Lots of people complaining about ping batteries on the forums.

I thought Pings v2.5 are max continuous discarge is at 2C with a max peak discarge at 4C??

But their rated ~1500 cycles is at 1C and 2C for long periods of time is pushing it.
2C is where the pings are sagging and struggling to give you the rated voltage.
You will get a shorter lifespan and less capacity if you run 2C continuous.

This goes for any cell chemistry really, You want to run a battery below it's maximum C, for sure.

For example, i run my 20C lipos at 5C maximum now. They don't get warm, i get all their capacity, and the voltage sag is only 1.5v 8)

In reality you will always be running above 1C unless you are going downhill, are pedaling with all your might at top speed, or have a bitchin' tail wind.

A 9C will want 20 amps to do the job. If you're climbing any hills, you will use that 20 amps continuously!
And 20 amps will be slow up a hill, so you'll quickly find yourself desiring 30-40 amps and said ping won't handle it. You will need a new battery very shortly.

So go big or go home! 15ah is the minimum i would get. 20ah is very ideal.

 

[ty cohen]

The only hill I'll be climbing will be for 2km and it ranges from a short spurt of 5% and the rest is around 3% - 4%. A total elevation gain of about 50m over 2km. Not much of a hill at all really.

Since my commute is only 7km, I don't need a hefty set up. I want a rear motor, and thinking of either 9c or the golden motor one in the link posted in this thread. I'm trying to limit my budget but don't want to cheap out either. Nor do I want to overdesign for my situation. The payload of a trailer and child will only be less than 5% of the time I'm on the bike. I'd like to get a Lifepo4 battery like the one I posted the link to but have heard horror stories of bad cells, etc. Ping's are a bit more for the same specs.

Really need to make a decision this riding season. .

 

[wesnewell]

if you just have to have lifepo4, then I'd suggest an A123 pack from cell man or someone else. You want to be able to draw at least 35A out whatever pack you get. That's a 7C rating for a 5ah pack, and a 3.5C rating for a 10ah pack. My 14s lipo pack is about the cheapest you can get and it has a 15C rating.

 

[neptronix]

The only hill I'll be climbing will be for 2km and it ranges from a short spurt of 5% and the rest is around 3% - 4%. A total elevation gain of about 50m over 2km. Not much of a hill at all really.

Since my commute is only 7km, I don't need a hefty set up. I want a rear motor, and thinking of either 9c or the golden motor one in the link posted in this thread. I'm trying to limit my budget but don't want to cheap out either. Nor do I want to overdesign for my situation. The payload of a trailer and child will only be less than 5% of the time I'm on the bike. I'd like to get a Lifepo4 battery like the one I posted the link to but have heard horror stories of bad cells, etc. Ping's are a bit more for the same specs.

Really need to make a decision this riding season. .

That's steep enough to have your amps pegged near the max limit of the controller the entire time.
So if you ran 22amps, you'd be running a hair over 2C.

Forget the golden motor, it is junk. It won't last. Hall sensors are a constant issue.
If budget is a concern, cell_man's kits will save the $ which can go towards a good battery.
See the for sale-new section here on the forums.

 

[ty cohen]

sorry, but i cannot seem to find these cellman a123 batteries you speak of. Plus I don't know of the nomenclature of 14s and the like for lipo batteries.

I've read good reviews on golden motor though. should I stick with ebike's 9c then?

 

[neptronix]

There are good reviews, but i've seen lots of mentions of hall sensor issues here.
I've ridden on one too, tons of drag when unpowered. The 9C is better in this regard.
From what i have seen, it is second rate compared to the 9C. The 9C is a much more common motor, and doesn't have any persistant issues.. only if you intentionally screw it up will it have problems, generally.

Hell, i think even cell_man has his 9C kits priced lower than Golden motor's hub kit.

Cell_man is a vendor on here, he has some posts in the for sale - new section.
You kinda have to PM him to get a sale going, he is a small operation and doesn't have an online cart up yet.

I'm sure with the money saved you could go get a ping battery or something equivalent.

Lipo is definitely a great option in my opinion, i run 10S lipo and am happy with it. But there is a lot to know before you get started.

PM me if you ever need any help.

 

[wesnewell]

sorry, but i cannot seem to find these cellman a123 batteries you speak of. Plus I don't know of the nomenclature of 14s and the like for lipo batteries.

I've read good reviews on golden motor though. should I stick with ebike's 9c then?

Lipo battery packs come in different sizes from 2s (2 cells) to 10s (10 cells) and maybe even more. each cell is 3.7V nominal and charges to 4.2V fully charged. You can string them together with a simply jumper wire to make any size you want to reach whatever voltage you want. 14s simply means it's 14 cells in series, 51.8V nominal. My pack consist of two 5s and one 4s 5ah (5000mah) packs in series. It could be 2 6s and 1 2s, 1 10s and 1 4s, or any other combo that adds up to 14. Lipo cells come with different ah ratings. A123 cells are high C rate lifepo4 chemistry cells. Nominal voltage is 3.25V each. Usually 16s for a 48V system. They will normally last longer, but are heavier, bulkier, and more expensive than lipo. Either should work fine for you in a 5-10ah pack. As far the motor, take your pick. I'm happy with the one that came in my ebay kit (yescomusa.com). It was a GM motor. Been perfect fo about 700 miles now and some have many K's on them without problem.

 

[ty cohen]

So, do I put together the battery cells myself into a pack? What about the charger and BMS?

So I guess you disagree with neptronix regarding the Goldenmotor reliability then?

 

[snellemin]

I have about 264 miles on my GoldenMotor.

 

[wesnewell]

So, do I put together the battery cells myself into a pack? What about the charger and BMS?

You put the packs together to form whatever you want. There are pictures all over this forum of different ones. Mine is simply 3 packs (2-5s and 1-4s) taped together with packing tape and 2 jumper wires between them. It couldn't be simpler. You don't need or want a bms for lipo packs. There are tons of different chargers available from ~$40 up. I bought the Hyperion 1420i so I could charge the whole 14s string at once. With a 600W psu it cost close to $200 total. It works great, however I could have gotten by with a $40 charger easily as I've got plenty of time.

So I guess you disagree with neptronix regarding the Goldenmotor reliability then?

All I can relay is my experiences and what I've read. From what I've read, the quality of the motors from China don't vary much. No matter what brand you buy there's always a chance of getting one someone on the line screwed up. Same for about anything you buy.

 

[ty cohen]

As far the motor, take your pick. I'm happy with the one that came in my ebay kit (yescomusa.com). It was a GM motor. Been perfect fo about 700 miles now and some have many K's on them without problem.

Does this reply from yesomusa make sense???

My question:

Hi, can you tell me what amps the controller is rated to? Thanks.


His Reply:
Hello,
We think this will depend on the battery and we don't include battery.
Battery recommendation:
1. Electrokinetic cell battery ( Li, lead-acid, NiMH battery etc.) featured in nominal voltage 48v, nominal capacity≥20Ah is compatible with the motor.
2. Li battery is highly recommended, among which LiMn2O4 battery will be of optimum performance.

Thanks

 

[wesnewell]

I can tell you the controller pulls 31A max with my battery pack as measured with the HK-010 power analyser. Also, you don't need 20ah of battery. You just need a battery that can handle a 31A draw. 5ah lipo or A123 lifepo4 will handle that easily. With a 2C ping or similar, you'd need at minimum 15ah. Maybe that's why they quoted 20ah as it would do 40A continuous. A 5ah 15C lipo pack is rated for 75A use, and 30C ratings don't cost much more.

 

[snellemin]

I've recorded 34A with their 48V500W combo.

 

[ty cohen]

I've recorded 34A with their 48V500W combo.

so you've got that goldenmotor kit as well?

I've given up on the lipos as they're too difficult to understand how they work and the combinations you need to get the proper set up. Plus, HobbyKings website is too complicated to navigate. I'll go for Ping 48v15ah batt.