Carbon Fiber e bike with Bafang M 600 mid installed with throttle

[Tom]

Also, the M600 is referred to as a 350/500 watt motor. Even Frey's product description shows 351-500.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Bafang-M500-M600-full-suspension-electric_60787634143.html

 

[Tom]

I noticed the same seller has another listing with min order 50. So maybe the min order of 5 was a typo.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/27-5-Cool-electric-bicycle-with_60800353366.html

Also that listing has a pic of the bike that looks more than just an artist's rendering.

 

[Tom]

Apologies for spamming the thread. Here's a carbon fiber one on alibaba (MOQ of 1). Not sure if legit but sure looks like the frame being discussed here. Battery capacity is only 11.6 AH (specs are all over the place in terms of whether it's Panasonic or 11.4 AH Samsung among other things).

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/26-Inch-Carborn-48V-10-4AH_60806321320.html

 

[waynebergman]

HI Tom, that link that you posted https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 21320.html shows a Dengfu CF frame , that is for sure. Funny they advertize it as a fatty as you will not get 4" tires in that frame also I would be surprised if these frames are ready to roll complete with battery as even Dengfu themselves have not found a source for battery to fit this frame. Its also funny in the earlier post https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 53366.html that link has the specs on the bike saying 28" tires. These specs from the Alibaba site are just all over the place.

 

[Tom]

I contacted enwe to get clarification on the specs and ask for a shipping quote for 1 bike. They replied "We don't do retail，We are manufacturer. Sorry friend". Sounds like a higher MOQ than 1.

 

[Drop Dead Fred]

Are you sure about the pics not being an M600? Unless my eyes are deceiving me the motor most definitely says M600 in the pics.

Tom,
I stand corrected, it is an M600 motor. Although the angle is pretty bad and won't do very well clearing obstacles plus the parts are really cheap. Also does have an MOQ of 50 which is the reason for the $76,950.00 US price.

 

[Tom]

The first link I posted was MOQ 5. I agree the angle isn't optimal but good to see more M600 options showing up.

 

[Animalector]

I visited the Enwe factory in China and saw this bike. looks good, I did not get to ride it though as it was a 3D printed model prior to them finishing the mold. It is the same as the Dengfu bike..

Andy

 

[Animalector]

Tripped across another one today. Sent an email for more info will post when I get it....

Supposed to be 150mm travel and 27.5 x 3.0\29 x 2.35 and weight is 3350g or 7.39 pounds

Where did you find this one???

Thanks

 

[Drop Dead Fred]

Tripped across another one today. Sent an email for more info will post when I get it....

Supposed to be 150mm travel and 27.5 x 3.0\29 x 2.35 and weight is 3350g or 7.39 pounds

Where did you find this one???

Thanks

Animalector,

Found it just doing searches for M600. It is from TSC Bike, http://www.tsc-bike.com/products/show.php?id=41 , I sent them an email and Maggie responded that they will have sample 18" available end of Oct. Pricing is comparable to most others, PM me for exact otherwise just leave it at that.

I also sent an email to the Light Carbon people about the LCFS1075 availability and shipping. https://www.lightcarbon.com/new-enduro-full-suspension-ebike-frameset-with-bafang-engine_p104.html#parentHorizontalTab022

 

[TorEddy]

Wow... that TSS881 (TSR881) frame actually looks really good.
Is it available yet?

 

[Animalector]

It looks like a CAD shot of this company's bike: www.fangbikes.com Apparently the Carbon mould is completed, and prototype frames are being ISO standards tested in May so real bikes should be available from June/July on wards.

Looks like this one:
[youtube]jEqRz9whAps[/youtube]

 

[Eddy Current]

Can this frames fit a 27.5x3.8 tire? Its is possible to order a bigger rear suspension triangle for the frame?

Hope they don’t forget about the fat market!

Oh and by the way ... m600 they are only 120nm peak for a short time like someone said?

 

[Animalector]

The idea behind the m600 is not all-out power.. Bafang make the ultra 1000w for that. Its intended to be a light (er) weight but go-anywhere motor.

Its intended to be compared with the Bosch, Yamaha and Shimano ebike drives.

Andy

 

[El_Topo]

Can this frames fit a 27.5x3.8 tire? Its is possible to order a bigger rear suspension triangle for the frame?

Hope they don’t forget about the fat market!

Who are you, are you me? I just wrote about the same thing in an email not even two hours ago...

Yes, a bigger rear triangle would be great as this looks like a decent frame (from what I can tell as a layman).
If they advertise the frame for up to 3" tires with a 148mm axle, 3.8" should not be possible because the chainstays are not long enough for the increased diameter and not wide enough for a 3.8" tire, the chainline is another issue.

While we are at it, I would prefer room for a true 4.3" (4.6" advertised) tire though. If it is possible to keep the chain stays narrow you should be able to get a Q-factor of <190mm with that combination if you find the right ISIS crank arms with a bit of an offset and the right amount of clearance to the chainstays. The Bafang Ultra has a 150mm spindle, so I assume the M600 to have either a 136mm or 143mm one, I am a bit unsure about the spider to get to a 65mm chainline but where there is a will, there is way! If we are designing a new rear triangle anyway, slightly angled sliding dropouts like the Otso Voytek would be nice too.
If carbon is not possible or too expensive for a small production run I would be fine with an alumium rear triangle as well!
Of course I know next to nothing about frame and rear suspension design so maybe just supersizing the rear triangle will throw off the design as well as stability which is kindly explained by another member in this and the following post of this thread.

Another issue is fork clearance if you go for a true fat tire fork like the Mastodon. A Fox 34 27.5+ with 140mm of travel can fit a 4" tire though and there also is the Dorado from Manitou which seems to able to go down to 170mm and takes up to 3.8" tires if you don't mind the price tag and around another kg of extra weight.
Can you get around this by using spacers between the fork and the frame or are there headset bearings that allow for this?
Then there is also this report about the M600 motor.

Maybe one could get in touch with the manufacturer to ask them about a fat rear triangle?

 

[Eddy Current]

Can this frames fit a 27.5x3.8 tire? Its is possible to order a bigger rear suspension triangle for the frame?

Hope they don’t forget about the fat market!

Oh and by the way ... m600 they are only 120nm peak for a short time like someone said?

Who are you, are you me? I just wrote about the same thing in an email not even two hours ago...

Yes, a bigger rear triangle would be great as this looks like a decent frame (from what I can tell as a layman).
If they adverise the frame for up 3" tires with 148mm axle, 3.8" should not be possible because the chainstays are not long enough for the increased diameter and not wide enough, the chainline is another issue.

While where are at it, Iwould prefer room for true 4.3" (4.6" advertised) tires though. If it is possible to keep the chain stays narrow you should be able to get a Q-factor of >190mm with that combination if you find the right ISIS crank arms with a bit of an offset and the right amount of clearance to the chainstays. The Bafang Ultra has a 150mm spindle, so I assume the M600 to have either a 136mm or 143mm one, so I am a bit unsure about the spider to get to a 65mm chainline but where there is a will, there is way! If we are designing a new rear triangle anyway, slightly angled sliding dropouts like the Otso Voytek would be nice too.
If carbon is not possible or too expensive for a small production run I would be fine with an alumium rear triangle as well!
Of course I know next to nothing about frame and rear suspension design so maybe just supersizing the rear triangle will throw off the design...

Another issue is fork clearance if you go for a true fat tire fork like the Mastodon. A Fox 34 27.5+ with 140mm of travel can fit a 4" tire though.
Can you get around this by using spacers between the fork and the frame or are there headset bearings that allow for this?
Then there is also this report about the M600 motor.

Maybe one could get in touch with the manufacturer to ask them about a fat rear triangle?

Hi El Topo. Just let me know any answer. I like mid fat because I don’t ride snow or sand but I still enjoy them to save my poor skills. I’m running plus now but I feel a 3.8 is going to be the real “freedom” ... with 150 FS I think 4.6 is overkill for my rides.

Lets pray for that clearance

At this time i didn’t read the report on the Bafang but that smiley ... I expect not good news

Hablamos amigo!

 

[Eddy Current]

The idea behind the m600 is not all-out power.. Bafang make the ultra 1000w for that. Its intended to be a light (er) weight but go-anywhere motor.

Its intended to be compared with the Bosch, Yamaha and Shimano ebike drives.

Andy

Allright but it’s still more “punchy” than the others?

I ride a Brose not complains at all but sometimes I feel like I need just a little more without entering on the TQ or the Ultra levels

Thanks!

 

[Deafcat]

The idea behind the m600 is not all-out power.. Bafang make the ultra 1000w for that. Its intended to be a light (er) weight but go-anywhere motor.

Its intended to be compared with the Bosch, Yamaha and Shimano ebike drives.

Andy

Allright but it’s still more “punchy” than the others?

I ride a Brose not complains at all but sometimes I feel like I need just a little more without entering on the TQ or the Ultra levels

Thanks!

Yep, the M600 (G521) should actually be capable of 1kW+ and even more than its rated torque, it's based off the Ultra (G510) but on a weight-loss regime. I've yet to pull one apart yet, but if anyone would do us all a favour and open one up for photos that would be great. Gear reduction should be very similar to Ultra just trimmed down, with a smaller rotor/stator from what I can surmise from packaging.

 

[El_Topo]

I visited the Enwe factory in China and saw this bike. looks good, I did not get to ride it though as it was a 3D printed model prior to them finishing the mold. It is the same as the Dengfu bike..

Andy

Andy, you seem to be involved in the manufacturing part of bikes.
Can you tell us if it is possible (in terms of screwing up the geometry and suspension design) to get another rear triangle for fat tires for an existing frame and if it is likely to convince a manufacturer to do a small production run?

TIA!

 

[Animalector]

the issue is chainline... to get the chain past the big fat tires you need to move the motor out-ward, but since the motor is only 'so-wide' you end up shifting the whole thing to the drive side, which is a problem on the non-drive side...

might be possible but I don't think you can just drop in a new rear triangle.

Andy

 

[Eddy Current]

maybe with a 8 speed cassette the chain could work

and for the rear triangle, custom made I’m afraid my friend

Yes looks like fat tires on that frame it’s going to be tricky

 

[Animalector]

maybe 12-speed cassette with 4 of the inner gears removed, offsettting the cassette towards the drive side.

It would be a frankenbike anyways not something worthy of retail to consumers.

Andy

 

[Eddy Current]

maybe 12-speed cassette with 4 of the inner gears removed, offsettting the cassette towards the drive side.

It would be a frankenbike anyways not something worthy of retail to consumers.

Andy

Mmmmh ... sram offers a 8 speed cassette (11-48) specifically for ebikes and it made sense because with these torque levels (on pair with 600cc bikes) you can save some gears. And it’s supposed to be stronger and last way more than a regular cassette

https://youtu.be/2aGCecQNeyc

 

[Animalector]

Yeah I know about the ex1. But the largest cog is still hard up against the wheel which is where the chain line is the worst (with respect to wheel clearance)

So even though it's 8 speed it doesn't solve the chain/wheel clearance problem.

Andy

 

[Eddy Current]

Yeah I know about the ex1. But the largest cog is still hard up against the wheel which is where the chain line is the worst (with respect to wheel clearance)

So even though it's 8 speed it doesn't solve the chain/wheel clearance problem.

Andy

At this point I only can suggest they offer a fat tire rear triangle as an option, sized for fat tires hubs ... I don’t know if that need a whole frame redesign. I’m afraid the fat market is already doomed

Thanks Andy