Carbon Fiber e bike with Bafang M 600 mid installed with throttle

[Surfingjeff]

I have been looking at Alibaba trying to find a light weight alternative to heavy weight ultra Bafang aluminum type unit like a Frey but lower weight or the same as many E bikes from Europe or the US but without the restrictions on assisted 20 MPH or even 28 MPH with ability to throttle up to at least 24-26 miles an hour and assisted to well over 30 miles an hour . Also imbedded battery in the up tube . With upgraded high end Forks by Rock Shock like Yari or Lincks , Monarch rears , at least SRAM NX , Guide brakes or Magura . 27” x 2.8-3” tires preferably carbon fiber wheels . At least 150 mm travel if not more . Please see what I have found

 

[Baron]

Isn't the bafang ultra model number G510? Which model motor is the M600? I'm also looking for a frame for the bafang ultra that I can DIY build.

 

[Surfingjeff]

The ultra your correct . I really think it’s over kill both with weight and power . I ride currently a Bafang 500 hub motor and I am easily hitting over 30 plus miles a hour . Everyone who has the Ultra mid drive has been complaining of the excess weight . The reason for that is the weight of the motor and some of the huge battery’s required to feed this monster motor . The industry is going toward lighter more efficient like the Shimano E8000 step motor 2.88 KG with battery at 2.65 kg. But only 70 N.m Compared to the Ultra at 6.8 Kg with battery at 4 kg. 16 ahr . At 160 N.m The new Bafang M 600 weighs 3.7 kg rated 120 N.m and the standard battery is 36 v 14 ahr is 3.5 kg . I think the new Bafang M600 is a good compromise it’s plenty strong and doesn’t add as much weight as the ultra to keep the bike to close to 20 KG but with a throttle . The very lightest bike is the Pivot Shuttle under 20 kg but utilized the Shimano Step E 8000 which I have demo ed it’s pretty torquey can climb pretty well shuts down at 20 MPH you can add a dongle or reprogram to get over to 50 kph but still no throttle . Oh by the way the Pivot Shuttle is $10,000 ouch . A carbon frame with the Bafang M600 with 120 n.m would be a serious machine be pretty light weight and act more like a real mountain bike instead of the Ultra over weight 57 lbs. over weight “ motor cycle”. My current bike M2S Dual Sport 500plus weighs 55 lbs. it’s a tank . When I test road the 44 lbs. shuttle talk about my bike over powered but heavy like dark ages old klunker compared to what I would say felt very close to my Specialized S works Enduro my regular mountain bike . Currently there is no bike on market today due to all the regulations that has a throttle with power and be below or near 20 kg . I think the bike shown on this post which is not yet available for a few weeks to a month would be very close to the Shuttle by Pivot in weight but be much faster with 40% more torque with a throttle and not cost anywhere close to $10,000. I’m getting pricing for three built up bikes since shipping three bikes same as one bike for China . I’m specifying both SRAM NX group , Rock shock Monarch shocks Lyrik fork decent components guide brakes . Trying to get a order together my target is about same price as the Frey bikes . The M600 motor is less than the ultra but the Carbon fiber frame will be more . I really want to add carbon fiber wheels try to get to the same weight as the shuttle which has aluminum wheels . The correct tires can also save a few pounds .

 

[devo1223]

I'm very interested in this as well. I think this frame looks better than Frey's. Does Dengfu sell complete bikes? Does the m600 come standard with a throttle?

 

[Surfingjeff]

This frame has options for either the Shimano e8000 step motor or the Bafang M600 /500 the Bafang has standard option for throttle the M600 is powerful rated at 110-120 Newton’s which is the same rating as the road illegal German M1Spitzing rated at 45 MPR and $11000. Bafang has in tube integrated battery’s . You can buy the frame for $800 reasonable shipping about $100 also the whole bike for about $3200 depends on spec. plus freight $800 but you can ship two bikes for $850 three bikes for $950.

 

[zro-1]

Would you mind sharing the link to the frame listing?

 

[Bigwheel]

Ever since seeing an explanation of the M600 online I have been attracted to it like a moth to light. Basically for all the reasons mentioned including a conventional centere Q factor.

However I am moving forward beyond the 18650 cell to 21700’s and the frame above doesn’t work for that. As an aside it is cool that they offer a 340wh, iirc, and 600+wh option with a 1000wh battery in development.

I have been in contact with the company that makes this bike for awhile and they haven’t had a request for the use of the larger cells but are aware of them. It will be up to Bafang to make that move anyway.
In the meantime I am trying to feed them info on geometry especially as these bike are close but not totally in line with the current crop. Trying to get them to make a gravel bike type frame also that will fit up to 45c rubber. The one they list currently is up to 30c.

The beauty of it is that the manufacturer is based in Taiwan and the 25% tariff would not apply. For now anyway. I’m pretty sure though as described above the bikes will be fully sufficient and perform on par with any of the other similarly set up brands. With a throttle. I don’t use mine for more than starting off and helping to get the bike up graded to steep to ride and just for those reasons alone I’ll never have an eBike without one.

 

[Surfingjeff]

Would you mind sharing the link to the frame listing?

 

[Surfingjeff]

The frame was not a listing but a specific e mail to me since it was just not in production yet but I think was provided in Shimano version as a oem . I would be happy to forward the e mail just pm me. I can also provide so e of the latest pricing on upgraded parts too.

 

[devo1223]

Will you just post that info here? I'm interested too

 

[Surfingjeff]

Ever since seeing an explanation of the M600 online I have been attracted to it like a moth to light. Basically for all the reasons mentioned including a conventional centere Q factor.

However I am moving forward beyond the 18650 cell to 21700’s and the frame above doesn’t work for that. As an aside it is cool that they offer a 340wh, iirc, and 600+wh option with a 1000wh battery in development.

I have been in contact with the company that makes this bike for awhile and they haven’t had a request for the use of the larger cells but are aware of them. It will be up to Bafang to make that move anyway.
In the meantime I am trying to feed them info on geometry especially as these bike are close but not totally in line with the current crop. Trying to get them to make a gravel bike type frame also that will fit up to 45c rubber. The one they list currently is up to 30c.

The beauty of it is that the manufacturer is based in Taiwan and the 25% tariff would not apply. For now anyway. I’m pretty sure though as described above the bikes will be fully sufficient and perform on par with any of the other similarly set up brands. With a throttle. I don’t use mine for more than starting off and helping to get the bike up graded to steep to ride and just for those reasons alone I’ll never have an eBike without one.

I wasn’t aware they were in Taiwan that is a bonus I hate to make a genrization but quality is typically better their . I don’t think as far as battery is concerned with Bafang you can always add and build up your own unless the battery cavity of the bike your talking about for the the forward tube of the frame is not big enough. But it’s realy the quality of the cell that makes the difference seems like most of the development is going on in the 18650 cells since Tesla could buy or should I say make any cell they want.

The one aspect I also like is this frame can handle the larger 27.5” plus size range at least 2.8” width . I know it’s a different animal than a gravel bike which is a hybrid road bike with larger tires . I’ve seen a lot of hard tail mountain bikes that would handle the gravel tire width your looking for with fairly large battery capacity and also designed with this M600 motor. I know geometry might be different from what you may be looking for . I finally found a separate distributor that was quoting in another ES post the pricing on this M600 full bike kit delivered to the USA at $800. This frame as I mentioned before delivered to USA at $900 or the whole bike with decent parts at$3200 plus single bike freight $800 two bikes $ 900 three bikes $950 estimated.

 

[Surfingjeff]

I just received the images from the brand new frames right out of the molds. This comes in Both the Shimano Versions and Bafang 500/600

 

[devo1223]

That looks awesome! Plus size tires are a must for me too. $800 shipped? I might have to pull the trigger on that. Do you have a link to that other ES post? I can't find it. Has anyone purchased a m600 yet? I'm looking for a good source. I'm guessing the supplier of this frame will sell me just the frame and motor?

 

[PRW]

is this their website - shows an address in China?
http://m.dengfubikes.com/index.php?s=/199.html

 

[Surfingjeff]

That looks awesome! Plus size tires are a must for me too. $800 shipped? I might have to pull the trigger on that. Do you have a link to that other ES post? I can't find it. Has anyone purchased a m600 yet? I'm looking for a good source. I'm guessing the supplier of this frame will sell me just the frame and motor?

I would suggest you buy the frame and the Bafang M600 so price without freight is $799 frame and 650 for the Bafang Bike kit . Not sure what freight would be for that . I know if I order three complete bikes I can get a discount that covers most of the freight so the freight is only $50 each but I need one more bike for quantity three . I think the bikes with the Yari forks with nice grupo and carbon wheels would be about $3500 still getting confirmation estimate only . The quantity break is significant $700 off all three bikes . All this has been quoted on e mails since this is preproduction and they just became available yesterday . PM me with phone if you want to discuss .

 

[Surfingjeff]

is this their website - shows an address in China?
http://m.dengfubikes.com/index.php?s=/199.html

That’s the website but this frame does not show up in the site yet . It just became available yesterday when new mold was made and frames were built .

 

[Bigwheel]

Different nanufacturer then if that is the company you are in contact with. Virtually the same frame, offering Shimano and M600, but Taiwan source for sure that I am in contact with. I forwarded a shot of a skid plate yesterday to get them to incorporate that element.

I use a TSDZ2 currently and it hangs pretty low so I have to dismount sometimes because sometimes I don’t and the casing takes a pretty good whack that with repetition could break it. 5mm skid plate with no chainring overlap would solve that with an integrated motor.

 

[ScooterMan101]

surfingjeff,

Not sure why you are going to use a 11-42 tooth cassette, ?
when
Sram Eagle NX cassette comes in a 11-50 .

https://www.sram.com/sram/mountain/products/pg-1230-eagle-cassette

 

[Surfingjeff]

surfingjeff,

Not sure why you are going to use a 11-42 tooth cassette, ?
when
Sram Eagle NX cassette comes in a 11-50 .

https://www.sram.com/sram/mountain/products/pg-1230-eagle-cassette

Certainly that eagle would be a better choice if I was on a plain mountain bike with no electric . But in ordering a E bike you need to keep a eye on the total Costs of the grupo with Eagle does jump up . If I had total control of each part I could pick and choose . That would be a change of the derailleur with 12 speed not just the cassette change out but a powered e bike not a absolute requirement to have a eagle with e bike you can find a few eagles but usually not on e bikes now .But we’re dealing with a Chinese Manufactuer and every parts ordering gets criptic language barrier and all . It took several weeks for me to get quotes on just the shocks and I still didn’t get all the fork prices I want . I’m not even going to try to get a dropper post I would be better getting my own and own saddle . I’ve seen a lot of the Chinese manufacturers still using the cable switch on the outside of the dropped instead of the integrated one that runs through the bottom of the post . But I’m working it out . I currently shut down my e bike power and ride up hill s on my 8 speed and I’m fine with it just to get the excercise .

 

[AWD]

"But it’s realy the quality of the cell that makes the difference seems like most of the development is going on in the 18650 cells since Tesla could buy or should I say make any cell they want. "

And that is why they made the Giga Factory and are looking to build another to make 2170, as they call them, cells. First introduced with the new Model 3 with other models being refit for their use for next model year.

https://www.teslarati.com/inside-tesla-model-3-2170-lithium-ion-battery/

 

[Surfingjeff]

"But it’s realy the quality of the cell that makes the difference seems like most of the development is going on in the 18650 cells since Tesla could buy or should I say make any cell they want. "

And that is why they made the Giga Factory and are looking to build another to make 2170, as they call them, cells. First introduced with the new Model 3 with other models being refit for their use for next model year.

https://www.teslarati.com/inside-tesla-model-3-2170-lithium-ion-battery/

Understood always will be new technology like Tesla but we’re talking about a Chinese Manufactuer of a bike here that already designed a frame to accommodate a18650 cell with the best available density choice is LG Samsung Panasonic . So unless we have total control of the battery tray / down tube size I really do not want to build a custom pack and install . I simply want to order the best off the shelf parts at reasonable price . The battery’s are much better now than just few years ago I finally replaced my 18 ahr lead acid battery’s all four of these 12 volts for a single tiny 60 volt LG 20 AHR 70mmx120mm x300 mm 5.4 kg battery to saved at least 30 pounds with very low voltage drop greater range now my scooter is too fast( wheely machine) and need to control the throttle with Grin Technology Cycle Analyst .

 

[ScooterMan101]

Jeff,

While the Sram Eagle XX1, X01, GX groupsets are expensive ...

The new Eagle NX Groupset is much cheaper, in fact quite affordable when you consider what it is and the fact that in the groupset you get the ...

Crankest , Rear Derailleur , Shifter, Chain, and that 11-50 cassette
all for , get this just under $ 400 U.S. ! add the BB for under $ 45 U.S.
and
You have a Quality Groupset at a Good Price .

Note : The Eagle NX is a brand new groupset so when looking up Eagle on the Net you are seeing the higher priced sets like the XX1, X01, GX .
Last I saw on the net for the new NX was about $ 380 , before BB which is another $ 45 or so.

 

[AWD]

Sorry, that is not how I read it when you said that about Tesla and most of the development going into 18650 cells. Granted anything will be better than a SLA.

Well I am working with another company as I said that is willing to make frames to our specs, most importantly in regards to CS length, head and seat tube angles which are a bit off on their design plus a few other details. I'm sure you will have a fine time with your bikes and that is what counts but I just see them being better and am happy with what I have in the meantime enough to wait it out a bit to get things in line.

 

[AWD]

Sorry, that is not how I read it when you said that about Tesla and most of the development going into 18650 cells. Granted anything will be better than a SLA.

Well I am working with another company as I said that is willing to make frames to our specs, most importantly in regards to CS length, head and seat tube angles which are a bit off on their design plus a few other details. I'm sure you will have a fine time with your bikes and that is what counts but I just see them being better and am happy with what I have in the meantime enough to wait it out a bit to get things in line.

 

[AWD]

dupe