Centrifugal Clutch Min RPM ????

[damcard]

Anyone here have much experience with centrifugal clutches? I am looking at types such as the Hilliard Extreme-Duty or Horstman Reaper. I am curious what is the lowest speed I can make them engage and also lock. I could remove any springs holding the shoes or put some heavy weights on it. I am thinking about how I can adapt this to my latest bike since my Cyclone died. I have some Astro motors I would like to try with my HV160 but am scared I will blow that controller since I don't have pedals. But, looks like these centrifugal clutches are just the ticket. -Damcard

 

[Thud]

I have a hilliard extream duty clutch...with 2 green springs it engadges at 800rpms & locks up at 1100ish....i haven't run it on a bike yet...just spun it on a lathe to set the engadgment rpm's. I bought mine from here:
http://www.mfgsupply.com/GoMiniClutchCentHilliard.html

fast service & they stock all the set up parts.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

I have some Astro motors I would like to try with my HV160 but am scared I will blow that controller since I don't have pedals.

Why not get a slipper clutch from Matt? Slips with high power at low speed, seems like a perfect match.

 

[damcard]

800rpms & locks up at 1100ish

Awesome!

Why not get a slipper clutch from Matt?

I considered doing that too. I may just buy a drive from him if it will work without pedals using one of his clutches. I liked the idea of the centrifugal clutch because there would be no resistance at 0 rpm. I was influenced by this guy a long time ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwODx028_Jw.

-Damcard

 

[damonjackson_spl]

Damcard

I've still got that vid saved on my YouTube account!! Such an awesome build!! I've been talking to a pocket bike shop regarding using their centrifugal clutches and the go for under 10hp would be a water-cooled pocket bike clutch (slightly better than chinese cag motors) and you can put different colour springs for different rpm engagement. Or for simlar price to Matt's slipper clutch you could go a genuine poloni race clutch!! Good thing about pocket bike clutches we can cange the M6 pinion sprocket to a HTD or T5 pulley instead!! I'm Ordering one of these clutches soon and with all my belt drive bits, I will put together my own version and join the 50 other reduction drives on ES atm

D

 

[Hillhater]

The Horstman "Reaper" is a very strong clutch, capable of more power than you are likely to heap on it (20+ hp)..
..but like most of the disc clutches you will have to do a lot of mods to get it to lock up much below 1500 -2000 rpm
Its also expensive ( $300+) and heavy.

 

[E-racer]

I have a hortsman greased lighting clutch siting in my room. These things are AWESOME and Bulletproof! The weights and springs are interchangeable so you can tune an engagement rpm. If you don't mind spending the $$$ I'd go for the hortsman! If you make me the right offer I would consider selling mine.

 

[damcard]

you could go a genuine poloni race clutch!

What is the max rpm for those. What is the range of rpm engagement? I found the clutch and a bell housing. They look good. It has me thinking. If I can put this directly on my 8150, it has 197 rpm/volt, so thats around 10,000 rpm. I would have to surround it with some bearings because my 8150 only has a 3/8" shaft.

capable of more power than you are likely to heap on it (20+ hp)

Okay, I'll start out smaller or go with Matt's.

you will have to do a lot of mods to get it to lock up much below 1500 -2000 rpm

If I could mount it directly to the motor or 1/1, that would only be 1/5 of the rpm of the motor, so maybe that could help me with that.

I have a hortsman greased lighting clutch siting in my room.

What drive sprocket does it have?

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

Maybe you should consider sensors for the Astro with a Lyen's controller or Jeremy's Simple BLDC controller?

Lighter, cheaper, maybe easier, and addresses the actual problem, rather than the symptoms.

 

[damonjackson_spl]

Damcard.

Those clutches are good for 9000rpm +-

I'll let you know how my results with a 80-100b and HV-160 and the poloni race clutch and compare to how whiplash and kim are going with their halls!!

D

 

[damcard]

Maybe you should consider sensors for the Astro with a Lyen's controller or Jeremy's Simple BLDC controller?

I have an Astro 3220 6 turn with all 6 wires coming out. I was planning to put halls on that, but wanted to try my hand at my own controller. So, I want to leave it on my bench.

I already have a hv160 and an Astro 8150 that I have not done anything with just sitting here, so I thought the clutch would solve my issues and I can put it to use.

I have a pm in to Matt to see if his slipper clutch will solve the issue too. The thing I like about the centrifugal clutch is no resistance at 0 rpm and it increases the faster you go. If I understand the clutch Matt uses, is it will slip at a given torque no matter what rpm. -David

 

[recumpence]

DC,

I got your PM.

My slipper will not allow starting from dead stop. It still requires a touch of forward motion before it does any good.

I just ordered a centrifugal clutch, myself. I have been dying to try one out.

I hate to start this whole pissing match again, but, the problem I have with hall setups is the fact that they are either timed for low speed or high speed. I love the smooth powerful running of the RC controllers. A centrifugal clutch should be the solution to the startup issue.

I am not married to sensorless. I am just weary of losing one set of issues for another. Each setup has its benefits and drawbacks.

Matt

 

[Hillhater]

Matt,
have you ever considered trying Castles "smartsense" car ESC's .. they use sensored drive to start, then switch to sensorless for high speed.
sounds like a good compromise ?

 

[recumpence]

Matt,
have you ever considered trying Castles "smartsense" car ESC's .. they use sensored drive to start, then switch to sensorless for high speed.
sounds like a good compromise ?

Yes, but they are stuck with low voltage.

The industry is moving closer and closer to nirvana. We will get there.

I have thought about this for over a year. A good leading shoe centrifugal clutch may be the hot ticket.

Matt

 

[MitchJi]

Hi Matt,

the problem I have with hall setups is the fact that they are either timed for low speed or high speed. I love the smooth powerful running of the RC controllers.

I am not married to sensorless. I am just weary of losing one set of issues for another. Each setup has its benefits and drawbacks.

Maybe sensored with Burtie's timing circuit would be an excellent solution?

A centrifugal clutch should be the solution to the startup issue. I just ordered a centrifugal clutch, myself. I have been dying to try one out.

Hopefully it solves the startup problem. I don't think a centrifugal clutch which is completely on or off will work as well for protecting belts from overloading or letting novices ride your bikes as a slipper clutch but maybe thats incorrect?

 

[Hillhater]

... I don't think a centrifugal clutch which is completely on or off will work as well for protecting belts from overloading or letting novices ride your bikes as a slipper clutch but maybe thats incorrect?

You can set up a centrifugal clutch to have a "progressive " take up like a slipper clutch, before it locks up completely at higher rpm.
Centrifugal disc clutches are best for this as they are more adjustable and withstand the wear better.
There are also "wet" , oil filled versions intended for this type of "slipper" function.
Horstman DXL, wet disc clutch.

 

[recumpence]

A locking centrifugal clutch and a torque limiter in tandem would work too. Of course, now we are getting a bit complicated. However, each has its benefit and and both are reliable, generally speaking.

I think what would be ideal is something very similar to that progressive clutch.

Matt

 

[Thud]

We technical forum members tend to over complicate every system we design :lol:

A simple hilliard clutch will do exactly what every other option listed will do...the fine tuning details of most of the other systems are intended for fine tuning of performance at a specific race circuite & engine set up.

With our flat tourque curves. a simple quality centrufigal clutch will prolly match the performance of the more expensive options.
K.I.S.S. all the way.

 

[recumpence]

Agreed.

I believe we are on the cusp of some very cool technology. I am excited to see what the next couple years bring.

Matt

 

[Whiplash]

One thing I like about this is the ability to dump another large chunk off the bike. If this works, I will certainly convert to sensor less, and the clutch MAY even allow us to use the cheaper variations of speed controllers NO? The best part is, my design means LESS work for the clutch! I would not have to cut it off!

 

[E-racer]

What drive sprocket does it have?

12 tooth #35

Clutch Disk 1

Clutch Disk 2

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

... I don't think a centrifugal clutch which is completely on or off will work as well for protecting belts from overloading or letting novices ride your bikes as a slipper clutch but maybe thats incorrect?

You can set up a centrifugal clutch to have a "progressive " take up like a slipper clutch, before it locks up completely at higher rpm.

Centrifugal disc clutches are best for this as they are more adjustable and withstand the wear better. There are also "wet" , oil filled versions intended for this type of "slipper" function.
Horstman DXL, wet disc clutch.

A simple hilliard clutch will do exactly what every other option listed will do...the fine tuning details of most of the other systems are intended for fine tuning of performance at a specific race circuite & engine set up.

I still don't understand how a clutch that slips at low rpm and locks up at higher rpm:
" centrifugal clutch to have a "progressive " take up like a slipper clutch, before it locks up completely at higher rpm"

can replace a slipper clutch that slips based on torque. If you goose it at medium rpm and the torque exceeded the set-up the slipper would slip and the centrifugal would be locked?

EDIT ADDITION:I think I figured it out . You can adjust some (or all?) centrifugal clutches to never lock up? To get to a tension level that matches what you'd want with a slipper and then never go beyond that level without slipping? How expensive and how big (depth) are these clutches?

Matt:
You purchased one? Any results to report?