charging bike from car

[kalpatarutree]

So, after putting the kilowatt on my battery charger and getting a reading of 380 watts....i decided that i would buy a 400 watt inverter to hook to my car battery, so that when im transporting my bike from place to place, i would be charging it in the process.
My question is this : it has been said that "modified sine wave" inverters have the potential to damage delicate electronics, and ive even read a warning before not to hook up chargers to inverters (i read this in my power drill manual once...but ignored the advice and did it anyways....seemed to work just fine).
I know its kind off ridiculous to take the power that is generated through the alternator, run it through a 12 volt battery, convert ot to ac, then have my 48 v charger charge the batteries on my bike...but i just cant think of any other way to use my car as a charging station...and i feel having the "emergency power" when i cant find a safe ac outlet to "borrow" while im in town might come in handy...
See, my ebike situation is, i live 30 miles from town, so i can either ebike it all the way and maybe run out of juice (60 miles rt)...or do a combination of car and ebike (10 mile drive to bike trail, then 20 miles of bike trail to destination), or, if i start up a bicycle "delivery business" like i plan to do....drive all the way to town, then spend the day on an ebike..... and charge it while im eating lunch, shopping, driving to the next town, and what have you.....with all of this car/ebike shuffling around, i figure " why not use my car as a charging station?
Back to my original question....do you think it would be safe to run my 48v battery charger off of a 400 watt modified sine wave inverter?
This question also comes into play when getting into my next project..."solar charging". Ive got 400 watts of solar power and a huge bank of batteries with a 2000 watt (modified sine) inverter that i was going to put in a cargo trailer to make a portable " solar generator" of sorts....do you think it would be safe to charge my bike off of that? I realize with all these multiple conversions, that the efficiency is lost in the process, but aside from that....would it work? Or would i damage the charger, or my lithium battery?
Sorry went off on some tangents there to elaborate on my specific question....

 

[liveforphysics]

Some chargers run better or equally well from DC than from AC, and are extremely tolerant of the quality of AC power they are fed.

Other chargers could be fussy about power quality, and fail. These would be el-cheapo crap chargers anyway though.


If this ebike will be a tool for your business, and having a remote hanging station would be a substantial asset, get a chargery iCharger 3010b. It's a 1000w lithium balance charger made to run from 8v dc to 48v dc input (though it performs best at over 18v input).

You can power it right from your car directly, or solar.

If you got the right type of LiPo pack, like nano-tech's, you could potentially go from uncharged to fully charged in around 6mins if you were willing to invest in the right charge equipment.

 

[kalpatarutree]

I guess a side note to this rant should be "im done buying things, especially expensive things".....after spending the last two months and well over a thousand dollars on my ebike (which dont get me wrong, was the.best time and money i ever spent!!)...im done with upgrades, modifications, purchases, etc...im just going to have fun riding my bike now.
What i was asking was " can i use this 40 dollar inverter i just purchased to charge my bike?" If the answer is yes, then ill do it. If the answer is "no" then tell me why. My main concern is protecting the 1000+ i already invested.
If the answer is no, then no prob. Ill make do with the 30+ mile range, and finding ac outlets to charge my battery ( which seems to charge really fast!)

 

[Doctorbass]

It's a 1000w lithium balance charger made to run from 8v dc to 48v dc input (though it performs best at over 18v input).

Luke, Just to let you know, I tested my 3010 charger with my adjustable meanwell 1500W power supply and it wont work with over 38.5V. It display a message informing you that voltage is over.

Plus, to operate at 1000W you need at least 22.5V ( with around 50A) to avoid drawing too much current and blow the boost converter mosfets.

This charger is really well made except the density of the power section!!

 

[liveforphysics]

It's a 1000w lithium balance charger made to run from 8v dc to 48v dc input (though it performs best at over 18v input).

Luke, Just to let you know, I tested my 3010 charger with my adjustable meanwell 1500W power supply and it wont work with over 38.5V. It display a message informing you that voltage is over.

Plus, to operate at 1000W you need at least 22.5V ( with around 50A) to avoid drawing too much current and blow the boost converter mosfets.

This charger is really well made except the density of the power section!!

Hmm, strange! Maybe we have different versions or something perhaps?

 

[liveforphysics]

I guess a side note to this rant should be "im done buying things, especially expensive things".....after spending the last two months and well over a thousand dollars on my ebike (which dont get me wrong, was the.best time and money i ever spent!!)...im done with upgrades, modifications, purchases, etc...im just going to have fun riding my bike now.
What i was asking was " can i use this 40 dollar inverter i just purchased to charge my bike?" If the answer is yes, then ill do it. If the answer is "no" then tell me why. My main concern is protecting the 1000+ i already invested.
If the answer is no, then no prob. Ill make do with the 30+ mile range, and finding ac outlets to charge my battery ( which seems to charge really fast!)

With the charger, you're just going to have to try it and find out. Nobody can answer it for you unless we have seen inside the charger or have direct experience with that model of charger on an inverter.

As far as spending money on your bike, if you're using it to help you make money, and spending a little can help it help you more/better, then you may at least want to consider it.

 

[neptronix]

what charger and what inverter?

Worst case scenario is that the charger fries. Those chargers are worth about $50 retail, less if you buy from China.
But it does really depend on what you're dealing with, charger and battery wise.

 

[Holocene]

Be careful with the rating of the Inverter. Can it actually provide 400 W continuously? Most consumer grade inverters are sold by their peak rating. When sizing for these, your inverter would need to be rated about double the expected continuous load. As for the 'modified sine-wave' problem, don't worry about it. A Ping charger is not 'delicate electronics'.

But really, why bother Winners drive Electric… You've put a lot of effort and expense into planning and building this system, give it a chance to work for you.

Back in January, you mentioned you had a place in Portland where you could recharge during the day. Is that firm? You could consider making a deal with a local business for charging privileges in exchange for some billboard space on your ride... everyone will stop you and ask questions. 8)

Did you purchase a Cycle-Analyst If so, start tracking your battery usage with a spreadsheet. If you're getting pushed for range, reduce your cruise speed in small increments. i can literally double my range by slowing from 33 kmh to 27 kmh. If I pedal a bit, I triple my range.

Cheers, and good riding

 

[kalpatarutree]

Cool....i dont care if the inverter fries, its 40 bucks...ill keep it on hand for an emergency charging scenario....
Im already really impressed with the range, i can feel, especially around town, very, very little draw on the battery, i only use the throttle in little " spurts" and it feels like turbo boost. Its the long multiple mile stretches at full throttle that im sure must eventually tax the juice, although ive yet to find the bottom.
Consider me a newby at this point, ive been riding the bike for two days. Maybe after a while ill graduate to higher levels of ebike craftmanship and experiment with different batteries, solar charging and the like, but for now im just cruzing around in amazement. I entered this world with a certain conception of what i was getting into, but the way it turns out...this ebike thing has actually exceeded my expectations... its fantastic! I love bicycles, and i love excercize, but i was always one of those who didnt want to hop on the road bike and ride 60 miles because it felt like so much work, especially if i was going to rely on it for alternative transportation and ride 3-5 times a week. The ebike has met all the expectations i had projected onto it and more....its excactly what i wanted....turbo boost when it got really hard or boring ( hills, long flat stretches)...to keep me moving fast and excited to hop on the bike instead of use the car! I never knew trying to cut down on gasoline.consumption could feel like so much fun. Ill post pics after i get the dc converter/lights/12v/usb situation all figured out..

 

[kalpatarutree]

oh whoops, you said charger, not inverter.
Well, yeah, in that case, ill just leave it alone then. I dont want to have to bother with having another charger shipped from china.
Thanks for the encouragement holocene. I think ill just enjoy this bike while its functioning, as its functioning for now - it does seem to have 2 great things going for it - an amazing range, and a very quick charge time, im impressed with both.
Im not using a cycle analyst - im using a watt-meter and my droid phone tracking and speedometer apps to measure. Ive got amps, watts, amp hours, distance, speed, all kinds of data at my disposal, I dont think I really need a cycle analyst.

 

[dogman dan]

Buy a really cheap sla charger in the same voltage. Then risk that charger using it with the inverter.

Been charging my pings at work for three years now, using cheap sla chargers I store there. No problems.

 

[auraslip]

Buy a really cheap sla charger in the same voltage. Then risk that charger using it with the inverter.

Been charging my pings at work for three years now, using cheap sla chargers I store there. No problems.

Like less than 20 bucks on ebay 8)

I know there are r/c chargers meant to run on 12v, but are any regular chargers meant to do that? I'd just get some lead acid in the trunk to run the charger off of, so you wouldn't waste gas running your car.

 

[kalpatarutree]

Oh yeah, 12v chargers.for lead acid are extremely common....thats an idea you got going there with the sla. Something about charging a battery from a battery using a series of voltage converters seems horribly inefficient to me though...

 

[auraslip]

Er.... I meant to ask if their are 48v battery chargers that can accept 12v inputs like r/c chargers can.

I know some switching power supplies can accept input voltage down to 40v.....

Three or four large SLAs in series should run it, but I think you'd have to put them back in parallel to charge from your car, and I don't think your short trip to and from home would charge the SLAs in the car, so you'd have to plug in at home. A solar panel on the roof of the car could help....

What sort of bike trailer do you use?

 

[bluegoatwoods]

What if you powered your bicycle with four motorcycle batteries? If you wanted all day power for your bike, then have two sets of four.

Then you could charge your batteries (in parallel) straight off your car's alternator. They should charge quickly. The wiring (or should I say "cable-ing") wouldn't be all that difficult.

Interesting coincidence that I came across this question just now. During the last 15 or 20 minutes I've been thinking of doing something similar with my bike.

If I give it a try, then I'll let you know how it turned out.

 

[neptronix]

Oh yeah, 12v chargers.for lead acid are extremely common....thats an idea you got going there with the sla. Something about charging a battery from a battery using a series of voltage converters seems horribly inefficient to me though...

Yeah.. you will probably take a hit of 20%-35% that way.. O_O

What would be truly cool is if you were using an RC charger with lipo batteries if you are interested in going that way. Then you could hook the RC charger straight to the car.. no hassles. They were designed for that.

 

[dogman dan]

lead batteries for a bike, sigh,,,

Regular RC lipo chargers often run on 12-18v, at least in the smaller watt ones. And they can charge 24v lipo in the 6s chargers, so you could break out two charge ports on a 48v pack, and run two lipo chargers off the car battery while driving.

Just as easy though, to do the inverter thing, and a cheap 48v sla or lifepo4 charger.