Cheap hub motors

[fitek]

Tried using the forum search for "cheap hubmotor" and got lots of results with Randy/EbikeMaui and Lowell trash talking back and forth. hehe.

The only "cheap" hub motor I know of is goldenmotor, and from what I read on here a few months back and it seems they're pretty shady. Is there anything decent out there for less than $200?

I've been using the 300W Kollmorgens so far but mounting them is a pain in the ass each time. I had to resort to CNC milling twice. I'm still working out the alignment on my first bike, the chain slips a bit.

I'm using small wheels, 16"-20".

 

[CGameProgrammer]

Look here. That's a reputable vendor I've dealt with before, and those are Crystalyte hub motors available for as little as $120. The Roadrunner is brushless while the Sparrow is brushed. You'd have to lace those motors into the wheel yourself, and buy the appropriate spokes. You can also buy them in a wheel, ready to go, for $180 (Sparrow) or $230 (Roadrunner) on that same page.

 

[fitek]

low 200s is much better than what I've seen before. What's the power rating on that motor? I've tried googling without much luck. Can't find any info on crystalyte.com...

 

[CGameProgrammer]

Those names are made up by ElectricRider; I don't know what Crystalyte model numbers they correspond to. But the website says they ran the Roadrunner at 48V 20A and the Sparrow at 48V 25A. In a 26" wheel, without pedaling, they got max speeds of 23 and 25 mph respectively.

 

[Johnbear]

From my experience the golden motors are a great motor for the price!

 

[Ben]

Those names are made up by ElectricRider; I don't know what Crystalyte model numbers they correspond to.

It tells you underneath each picture:
RoadRunner is a 408
Sparrow is a 409

 

[fitek]

Hey folks, thanks for the tips on the brushless hub motors. At the Maker Faire I saw lots of vehicles running around with these small (I assume DC) hub motors. Maybe 16" wheels? It looked like the hub and rim were one piece, kind of like a BMX wheel. I didn't get a picture of any of them unfortunately. A few had the axle only on one side. Someone had a "segway" skateboard made with these that sat next to my booth for a few hours. Tried googling but not sure what they are, or where to get them?

 

[Knuckles]

I was just chatting with Keywin about inexpensive (I hate to say cheap) Grubee motors. Also the bafang motors have a good rep in the UK. I usually run motors at higher V and amps then they are rated and I haven't had problems. The motor ratings are a bit of a mystery but if it can take the volts and amps and stay cool then WTF. Getting them direct from China to here (to save money) is the trick but I am all for getting some in so if anyone wants to join up for an order direct from China then we could explore order options with Keywin as our purchase agent in Hong Kong!

-Just a thought.

 

[wanders]

if anyone wants to join up for an order direct from China then we could explore order options with Keywin as our purchase agent in Hong Kong!

Consider me interested. I've looked at the Bafang website, and it is very sparse with the specifications of the three motor types they seem to sell:

Type 01 - High Speed Brushless Geared Hub (also sold by Grubee):

View attachment 2

Type 06 - Climbing King Brushless Motor (also sold by Grubee, I believe, and looks similar to an EZEE hub):

View attachment 1

and finally

Type 07 - Hercules, which looks similar to the Hornet motors sold by FalconEV:



Anyone with real specs can chime in, here. I'd love to know more about these motors. The Grubee site seems to have the most information, which isn't an excessive amount...

Willie

 

[Knuckles]

these drawings may help (anyone read Chinese?)
http://98.131.176.65/endless-sphere/QSWXBfrontwheel.pdf
http://98.131.176.65/endless-sphere/7speedrearwheel.pdf

 

[docnjoj]

Hey Knuckles! Is the Climbing King a geared motor?
David (other Doc)

 

[Knuckles]

I don't believe the climbing King is geared. The geared motors seem to be the widest but of the smaller (smallest) diameter only. Remember that the rpm of the PMGR rotating magnets is much higher than that of non-geared brushless motors (thus the higher eff of PMGR over wider range of speed). Also realize that the largest diameter brushless motors are narrower (narrower magnets and more pole coils) then the middle diameter brushless motors (wider magnets with less pole coils).

My general rule of thumb is 'Mass of Copper'. More copper deliveres more power and won't over heat at very high V and A. I also look at the motor constant (rpm/V).
I think the upper limit for these "non-Clyte-x-5" motors is 80V and 50-amp.
Anything more than that should melt them (Can't wait to TRY!! ).

 

[fechter]

You certainly wouldn't want to buy a container full of those without torture testing them first. What you need are "sales samples". Even then, there's no guarantee the ones you buy later will be the same as the ones you tested.

Now this opens another interesting possibility. What if Keywin (or anybody)can get the manufacturers to bulid motors to our specs

Collectively, we know what the typical weaknesses are, so we can design around them.

First and foremost in my mind is the lack of a decent torque arm system. Something that's more integrated to the motor like a Heinzmann would be a huge improvement. It would be hard to come up with something that works well on every frame, but you might be able to work with most of them. I have some ideas here.

Room for a 7 speed freewheel and factory disk brake mount (that has enough clearance to work) would be nice too. The spoke flanges should be centered on the axle (not the motor) so the spokes don't need to be dished when you lace the wheel.

No hollow axles. The wires need to feed out along the side of the axle like an X5 motor. Nice big fat wires. Standardized color coding for the motor wires! I hereby decree that the color coding used by Crystalyte is the official standard.

Metal gears on geared units. Helical gear teeth might be good too if it doesn't cost too much.

 

[RLT]

I've been looking into importing some motors and/or complete e-Bikes from China myself, but the horror stories I've heard from other guys that have tried doing it on a small scale scare me off. And the guys that I do know and trust over there that act as jobbers/retailers don't want to get involved in things that bulky. I could probably talk 'my guys' into doing controllers, but not hub motors or anything bigger.

From what I hear, to be safe, you either have to go over there and shepherd the operation yourself, from production floor to shipping, to ground transport to the final destination....., OR have the (rare) agent that actually knows the product and is trustworthy that will do it for you in China, and a good port Agent here in the USA. Both of those options take a lot of money, making it impractical for 'the little guy'.

I'm not really a co-op sort of guy, but in this case, some sort of co-op sort of setup is probably the best way to make it work for less than about a quarter million $ up front.

So, anyway, If this can work out, I'd be interested in spending a few thousand$$..

 

[Knuckles]

Deleted

 

[wanders]

these drawings may help (anyone read Chinese?)

Knuckles:

You don't need to read Chinese to figure out that the rear hub is way too wide to fit in any dropout spacing on a normal MTB (135mm) or even a downhill bike (150mm). The dropout spacing on the rear hub is 172mm! Also, it is interesting that the wiring on that hub comes out the driven (freewheel) side, unlike most motor hubs. And it looks like the left side is set up for a brake of some kind.

The front one is OK, though...

Willie

 

[Knuckles]

You are correct. The fat one is clearly for a scooter frame.

Wait! Maybe not so correct. Hmmm. Maybe Keywin explain. :wink:

 

[Knuckles]

Deleted

 

[Johnbear]

Those are nice looking motors, whats the spacing on the rear motors? Will you be selling them? Are they geared? What do they weigh?

 

[fechter]

These are front and rear hubs for bicycle frame. Rated 250 watt and 24V (so a high ratio of rpm per volt - motor constant)
I wonder if these can take 72V and 30 amps?

Only one way to find out

 

[ngocthach1130]

Are you selling these? Since i'm close by, i can pick it up with cash in like 10 minutes lol. And if it's cheap enough, i'm willing to pump up to 100v through them to test.

 

[Knuckles]

Deleted

 

[Knuckles]

Deleted

 

[keywin]

You are correct. The fat one is clearly for a scooter frame.

Hi,this motor suitable for e-bike,e-bike " Wisper works 905SE" is use this motor,the rated voltage is 36V and rated power is 250W.because the shipping charge too high,so i never listing it on ebay.thank you.