liveforphysics
100 TW
Alan B said:
I think Tesla showed it's possible to have both.
Chevy Bolt first drive
- Thread starter speedmd
- Start date
I think Tesla showed it's possible to have both.
I have no doubt the Model 3 will prove to be more efficient than the 60 kWh, Bolt. However, I was very surprised that the 60 kWh, Model S is not as efficient as Chevy's practical hatch.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=38187&id=38170
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=38187&id=38170
speedmd
10 MW
3600 pounds vs 4600-4900 pounds? I would say the tesla is much more efficient per pound.
Hillhater
100 TW
speedmd said:
..oh come on, !.."efficiency per pound".... What kind of weasle wiggle metric is that ?Why cannot you accept that the Tesla is not perfect in every way. ?
speedmd
10 MW
Silly thinking one could travel long distances in a heavier vehicle with less energy? Lighter is most always better, unless as shown, it is less aerodynamic. At least regarding highway speeds.
Point was, the bolt, as good as it is, gives up a bunch more than it should in drag. Typical of their attitude toward it. Last year they did not even bring one to the regional Intl. auto show. Makes you wonder how serious they are promoting the new tech.
Point was, the bolt, as good as it is, gives up a bunch more than it should in drag. Typical of their attitude toward it. Last year they did not even bring one to the regional Intl. auto show. Makes you wonder how serious they are promoting the new tech.
Hillhater
100 TW
No wondering here....they dont give a shit about new tech, they are just in it to help out with their ability to meet the emmissions regs for their main stream ICE cash cows.speedmd said:
I think they are trying to build an EV that will appeal to the same people, like my wife, who own a Corolla, which last time I checked was one of the most popular small cars. Or greenies, who drive a five door hatch Prius. They are not going after the BMW lawyer/pimp demographic with this car. Tesla has that sewed up.
craneplaneguy
10 kW
Now that I have a ScanGauge in the 2013 plug in Prius I bought a couple months ago, I notice when pulling the mountain road I live up, it gets less MPG then the Toyota Yaris I just sold. Mean while, my average tank fillups on my usual mix of driving to work and around town, with a little freeway 65-70 mph driving mixed in, shows the PIP at 57 to 65 MPG, and the Yaris was mid to low 40's. Pulling the mountain, I'm only going 34-40 MPH, so aero plays a lesser part and the PIP's cleaner design helps out less. What matters more is the PIP weighs a bit over 3K, and the Yaris weighed a bit over 2K. Less weight is always better,less weight and less drag is the ultimate. Then again, I can pack a lot more crap in the Prius then I could the Yaris, saving me from driving the 25 mpg RAV4. Too bad they couldn't have made the BOLT more aero, I read one blurb that detailed a Chevy engineer lamenting the fact, he was aware of it's shortcoming in that respect, but that factor was over ruled by other marketplace considerations. Sure a big boat tail fairing would clean up the rear end drag, but it would look goofy and people wouldn't buy it, and they are in business to make money after all.
"Sure a big boat tail fairing would clean up the rear end drag, but it would look goofy and people wouldn't buy it, and they are in business to make money after all."
Yup. If we were really interested in making cars sustainable, running them off the energy they could harvest from the sun, like everything else on the planet does, they would be cruiser class solar cars.
Yup. If we were really interested in making cars sustainable, running them off the energy they could harvest from the sun, like everything else on the planet does, they would be cruiser class solar cars.
LockH
1 PW
[burp] "Chevrolet Bolt Declared Car Of The Year By Detroit Free Press":
http://insideevs.com/chevrolet-bolt-declared-car-of-the-year-detroit-free-press/
http://insideevs.com/chevrolet-bolt-declared-car-of-the-year-detroit-free-press/
craneplaneguy said:
A lot of us are efficiency nuts, myself included. But one thing needs to be considered.
If the less aerodynamic model is more appealing to buyers and they sell more of them as a result, then ultimately more people would have chosen it over a gas CUV.. then more of these things would be out on the road displacing gasoline. And boom, your collective efficiency goes up all the same.
Aesthetics really matter to most people. There are huge segments of the population in the USA who won't buy an electric car or a hybrid because of their looks. The bolt kinda rides the line between efficient and traditional looking.. i think it's a good blend.
But it's not my dream car either, that's for sure.
Yeah. I think we will be getting one. Even though I think car culture will finally be over by mid-century, we are too old to wait. I suspect the Bolt is the smallest, simplest, long range EV we will see (outside China) in the decade or so I may have left. Every other one from here on out will have to be "better", which always means bigger, with more complex gadgets. The fact that it is reasonable small, the interior is all hard plastic, and it has manual adjusting seats, like my old 1993 Sentra E, is a definite plus. If it had hand crank windows, I would be even happier.
http://www.stevejackowski.com/blog/we-love-our-new-chevybolt
http://www.stevejackowski.com/blog/we-love-our-new-chevybolt
Hillhater
100 TW
Autonomous personal aerial transport, is the answer... ( one man drones, operated on a "on demand", Uber style, system)
Technically possible now, but need a lot of development in many areas before they become practical.
we may not live to see it, but it will happen.
Technically possible now, but need a lot of development in many areas before they become practical.
we may not live to see it, but it will happen.
Looks like several dealers in northern Virginia will carry the Bolt, starting in February. I contacted one who has a demo in transit. Will contact me, for a test drive, when it comes in. Two hundred mile round trip into megacity hell, for warranty checkups, would be a pain.
An update, and some musings on the Bolt. In February, we made an appointment to drive one, closer by, in Richmond. We drove into the city, and were told not only wasn't it charged up, but was just being unloaded off the truck. They had lied to me over the phone, and email, and didn't have the decency to let us know before we drove all the way there. Needless to say, we won't be going back. After several weeks, our local dealer, who had said they would not be caring the car, and were not listed as a Bolt service/sale center on the GM site, apparently had a change of heart. I told them of our previous test drive experience, and they assured me it was there, and ready to drive. We made an appointment for two days later. That morning, they called to say it was sold. AutoTrader shows the numbers within 75 miles of us going up daily, so we will get to drive one eventually.
Anyway, this got me to thinking. EV nerds are all excited, saying this will change everything. Let's assume that it is a hit, and GM sells 30K a year, like they are hoping. With luck they could get to be as popular as the Prius, which is a drop in the bucket of annual light vehicle sales. Now imagine if they took the materials in a 60 kWh Bolt, and used them to build 60 e-bikes. Just for fun I divided a Bolts specs by 60, and came up with 60 e-bikes at:
$625-$740
59.5-60.0 pounds
1 kWh battery
2,500 watt peak power
They are talking about 30,000 a year for the US. This would translate to 1,800,000 e-bikes annually. Now that might actually change everything.
Anyway, this got me to thinking. EV nerds are all excited, saying this will change everything. Let's assume that it is a hit, and GM sells 30K a year, like they are hoping. With luck they could get to be as popular as the Prius, which is a drop in the bucket of annual light vehicle sales. Now imagine if they took the materials in a 60 kWh Bolt, and used them to build 60 e-bikes. Just for fun I divided a Bolts specs by 60, and came up with 60 e-bikes at:
$625-$740
59.5-60.0 pounds
1 kWh battery
2,500 watt peak power
They are talking about 30,000 a year for the US. This would translate to 1,800,000 e-bikes annually. Now that might actually change everything.
LockH
1 PW
^^ Watt he said. So. Was the Bolt hard to pedal? (Warmth and exercise, but also to shave off peak power outlets from cells at startups and up hills, etc.) Suspect plenty of (empty) seats, lots of (empty) cargo space. Curb weight near 3,600 lbs? Must be tough to get over curbs, up stairs, etc.
A last breath from a dying industry watt refuses to change.
A last breath from a dying industry watt refuses to change.
Hillhater
100 TW
Horses for courses guys !.....
You cannot take a flock of kids to school on an Ebike.... ( certainly not safely whilst there are still any cars about !)
You cannot take the family, luggage, dog, canoe, etc etc... On holiday, or even to the bus station , on an Ebike.
You cannot get sick granny or very pregnant wifey to hospital on an Ebike.
Few people can safely ride an Ebike on dark icy roads in sub zero temperatures.
How do i get my boat to the boat ramp ?
Etc etc
I like my Ebike, but i NEED my car .
You cannot take a flock of kids to school on an Ebike.... ( certainly not safely whilst there are still any cars about !)
You cannot take the family, luggage, dog, canoe, etc etc... On holiday, or even to the bus station , on an Ebike.
You cannot get sick granny or very pregnant wifey to hospital on an Ebike.
Few people can safely ride an Ebike on dark icy roads in sub zero temperatures.
How do i get my boat to the boat ramp ?
Etc etc
I like my Ebike, but i NEED my car .
Chalo
100 TW
Alan B said:
Or, conversely, a case of making the best use of the car's footprint. Making the thing ducktailed for aerodynamics impairs rear headroom and cargo space, or makes the car longer and heavier, or both. The Prius is a slippery car, but I hate being in one. It's terrible for rearward visibility, too.
The Smart Fortwo is a perfect example of making the best use of the footprint. It is a very logical design for a city vehicle, where logically you shouldn't be going over 25 mph for the safety of pedestrians. But if we NEED to go 80 mph, because we NEED to get to the beach and back before we NEED to be back at work on Monday, then aerodynamics should be paramount.
There was a discussion recently about the trailer pulling ability of the Tesla Model X. Many folks concluded that since pulling a horse trailer reduced the range of a 100 kWh car from 289 miles to just over 100 miles, that they NEEDED an electric car with a 200 kWh pack.
Nobody considered, since for most of the last 4,000 years we used horses for transportation and as draft animals, that it might make more sense to question the wisdom of hauling them around to shows in a trailer, instead of riding them there. We have gotten ourselves into a very odd mindset indeed.
There was a discussion recently about the trailer pulling ability of the Tesla Model X. Many folks concluded that since pulling a horse trailer reduced the range of a 100 kWh car from 289 miles to just over 100 miles, that they NEEDED an electric car with a 200 kWh pack.
Nobody considered, since for most of the last 4,000 years we used horses for transportation and as draft animals, that it might make more sense to question the wisdom of hauling them around to shows in a trailer, instead of riding them there. We have gotten ourselves into a very odd mindset indeed.
Hillhater
100 TW
And you are one of the folks who think they know what i think ??Warren said:
I am one of the folk who know that i NEED a car at times, thanks to current urban planning situation, centralised public facilities and crap public transport options .
But i am optomistic that at some stage EVs will become affordable or even better affordable, autonamous EV taxis, will be available on demand/quick call, and energy will be cheap and in surplus thanks to better renewables and newly discovered sources.
Until then, i will ride my Ebike and use my ICE car when i NEED to, ......because they are the options available to me (and many others). I dislike driving the car because of the rediculous congestion issues and costs involved (insurances, tolls, parking etc) but its a necessary evil at times.
Oh, and just so we are clear, no, i do not subscribe to the CO2 doomsday senario ! :wink:
Chalo
100 TW
Hillhater said:
That's a funny way to describe weakness and lack of commitment.
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