Chinese Products: Buy at your own risk

[mclovin]

I just got back from a month long trip to China and reading this thread in the context of the past few weeks of experience has highlighted one very important cultural point about China: "cheating" is a way of life. I'm not slamming the Chinese people (I happen to be a red blooded Chinese-American BTW) I'm just stating what has been told to me by Chinese people and what I've seen for myself.

To promise something/anything at the onset of a deal, to be exceptioanlly courteous and accomodating are cultural norms there but it may not last after money has been exchanged. To be fair I'm referring to rather simple business that I've conducted which is not anywhere near the scale that is commented on here......but I see the paralells.

It was explained to me by a Chinese person that getting ripped off is normal there. And to complain about it is rather futile as laws here genrally do not support consumers (or anyone else from what I've seen) and the offending party simply exercises actively ignoring you. It may be something as petty as the claimed origins (hand made from such-and-such region) of a dress or it may be a bit more personal and deal with the livability of an apartment rental.

I watched a TV program where a man showed, rather convincingly, that he was ripped off by a computer store. He went in and bought - at least what he thought - was a Dell laptop. When he got the computer home he discovered that it was a counterfeit Dell. The sales invoice stated quite clearly that he ordered a Dell so he wasn't pulling a fast one himself. When he took the computer back to the store they refused to give him a refund or exchange. He then went to the police to see what they would do but the cops said there was nothing they could (would) do. The guy is SOL. It was explained to me that Chinese department stores like that one are notorious for doing things like this and that the police do nothing. "That is China," I was told.

If you want to do business in China keep you eyes wide open.

Cheers.

 

[julesa]

If you want to do business in China keep you eyse wide open.

Cheers.

And yet there are amazing bargains to be had on good quality merchandise, which is why just about everybody does want to do business in China.

Cheers to you from across the lake. Great handle, by the way.

 

[jag]

I just got back from a month long trip to China and reading this thread in the context of the past few weeks of experience has highlighted one very important cultural point about China: "cheating" is a way of life. I'm not slamming the Chinese people (I happen to be a red blooded Chinese-American BTW) I'm just stating what has been told to me by Chinese people and what I've seen for myself.

There's an interesting article in the April '09 issue of Scientific American, p.26 "Thriving on Selfishness"
Basically the overall gain is maximized in an altruistic society where everyone is honest and do their share. However, an individual can gain by cheating (as long as there are altruistic people to cheat. Nothing surprising in that. (Though it took professors to make it a theory)

What I was wondering if societies evolve towards a different balance between honesty and cheating at different stages in development?
Meaning that China, as it advances will get over this phase shady practices being the norm and somehow accepted.

 

[OneWayTraffic]

I just got back from a month long trip to China and reading this thread in the context of the past few weeks of experience has highlighted one very important cultural point about China: "cheating" is a way of life. I'm not slamming the Chinese people (I happen to be a red blooded Chinese-American BTW) I'm just stating what has been told to me by Chinese people and what I've seen for myself.

There's an interesting article in the April '09 issue of Scientific American, p.26 "Thriving on Selfishness"
Basically the overall gain is maximized in an altruistic society where everyone is honest and do their share. However, an individual can gain by cheating (as long as there are altruistic people to cheat. Nothing surprising in that. (Though it took professors to make it a theory)

What I was wondering if societies evolve towards a different balance between honesty and cheating at different stages in development?
Meaning that China, as it advances will get over this phase shady practices being the norm and somehow accepted.

And in Evolution studies of such populations, such cheaters outbreed and push out the 'givers'. The balancing factor is a population of 'grudgers.' People who will trust anyone once, but always remember a cheat. That's pretty much what we have now in our own makeup. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

That department store lost far more in revenue from the lousy publicity. When some smart guy comes up with the Chinese Samsung or Sony (these companies had huge quality pushes a few decades ago) or a Chinese Wall mart they will clean up the market.

 

[jag]

And in Evolution studies of such populations, such cheaters outbreed and push out the 'givers'. The balancing factor is a population of 'grudgers.' People who will trust anyone once, but always remember a cheat. That's pretty much what we have now in our own makeup. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

And apparently the "best" cheaters take it to a higher level by a public facade adamantly despising the cheating. The SciAm article presented an example where an athlete publicly working to expose and eradicate doping turned out to be a user of performance enhancing drugs himself. It doesn't take much reading of the news to come across politicians working to uproot corruption and then turning out to be corrupt themselves. These "best" cheaters not only prey on the honest and altruistic, but according to the SciAm article gain even more evolutionary advantage by cutting out the competition of "lesser crooks".

There's a public distrust in politicians and business leaders. It would be interesting to study if there is any material truth to there being a higher percentage of selfish cheaters higher up the ladder. Maybe this type of unscrupulous behaviour is required at some point to reach high office?

 

[mclovin]

When some smart guy comes up with the Chinese Samsung or Sony (these companies had huge quality pushes a few decades ago) or a Chinese Wall mart they will clean up the market.

A Chinese Wall Mart perhaps??????? Or should I say "Wu Mart?"

 

[USAEBIKECO]

ok here is a prediction

In the next 3 years gas prices will soar again. shipping costs will be to high because big shipping tankers will become too expensive to move goods back and fourth. finally the obama admin will address these treasonous free trade deals and make them work in our favor. when all this happens watch out, the jobs will be comming back. its only a matter of time

whats funny is that my dad found jeans made in america online for 30 bucks, made in iowa... oh but i thought outsourcing would lower the costs of goods?

guess not