CO2 400ppm

[neptronix]

Could it be that one is an effect of another?

For example, water is excellent thermal mass. Dry out an area from diverting water and you remove the area's humidity. You remove it's stability as well. Then the land is then exposed to direct thermal extremes that come and go with the amount of sun you experience per year.

I'll use where i live as another example. We are technically in a high desert region, at >4000ft elevation. Our temperatures have had more extreme swings the more the population grows and thus the more the water is diverted or used otherwise. Where i live was once tropical and had a moderate climate, tens of thousands of years ago. Manmade irrigation, going back to the Native Americans who lived here long long ago, have drained our salt lake and Utah lake. And the people here keep popping babies out at a record rate and building new houses like crazy. Come visit in 50 years and see what happens!

If you live in an area with heavy evaporation ( like on the coast, particularly if you are significantly north or south of the equator line ), then more heat means more evaporation, which means more water being lifted from one area and being poured out on another. Where you live is more likely to become more tropical and less dry.

What won't be affected much is the areas around the equator. They will get a little hotter, but with a steady 12 hours of sunlight all year round, they will not see the extremes that we see.

Yes, the ocean can rise about 200 feet. You will have to adapt. Buy a house at 250 foot elevation and enjoy the rise of your property value in your old age

 

[arkmundi]

Compare this to the drought forecast map of this earlier post.

 

[arkmundi]

http://climatedesk.org/2013/06/how-to-fix-the-climate-in-one-simple-flowchart/

 

[neptronix]

Aw how cute, he thinks that democrats are the people who will do the right thing, and republicans are the problem :lol:

Coincidentally, democrats have:

1) Delayed but not halted the Keystone XL pipeline.
2) Opened up drilling to the antarctic wildlife refuge.
3) Kept the wars for oil going, and started new ones, namely in Libya ( was just about to privatize their oil production, then suddenly had to be invaded due to... ? ), various parts of North Africa, particularly Uganda ( white devil found out they had oil a few years ago, then suddenly a retired warlord who had been active for 20 years prior became a problem and we must invade... )
4) Proactively took polar bears off the extinction list.
5) Opened up deep offshore oil drilling just months after the BP oil spill. Despite BP racking up 10x more safety violations than every other domestic drilling corporation. Never made any changes to prevent any of this from happening again. ( note: BP is the Pentagon's prime domestic oil supplier )
6) Not done a damn thing to change the fracking rules. Federally, whatever is pumped into the ground is still automatically exempt... insane!
7) Not done a damn thing to change the fact that as we've tightened our air quality standards, ultimately all the manufacturing and other dirty industries have just gone to China, who is still exempt from the Kyoto protocol.. the finished product is then shipped to us by a ship using bunker fuel. So basically we are cleaning our side of the street up by dumping all the dirt and trash on the other side, ultimately creating more pollution in the process ( China surpassed us in emissions long ago ). OK, so this is more of a fault of the UN, another hero you think might save us...

I could go on, but you get the idea. We've been promised change by every president since the 1970's. All we get is more dirty drilling and offshoring of emissions.

I think you are still in denial of the fact that this species is too collectively stupid to solve it's problems. You think that somehow, an entire government which is in the process of slow financial collapse & is also heavily corrupted by polluting industries can be 'reigned in' to do the right thing. This is the same dangerous fallacy that Ron Paul supporters and Green partiers/progressives both believe in - that government can be a force for doing good.

That's not how government works. You need to study history.

 

[neptronix]

http://grist.org/news/obama-says-a-climate-plan-is-coming-next-month-so-climate-hawks-delay-lawsuit/

The attorney generals of New York and nine other states, along with three major green groups, had planned to sue the EPA this week because it missed a deadline in April to finalize emissions standards for new electric power plants.

Two months after notifying the agency they intended to sue, the consortium had expected to file as early as Monday, but backed off temporarily to allow the White House to disclose its climate plans.

“Due to public reports that the president will be announcing major action on climate change very soon, the Attorney General has decided to postpone a lawsuit on this matter for a short period,” said Melissa Grace, a spokeswoman for New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman.

 

[Dauntless]

http://climatedesk.org/2013/06/how-to-fix-the-climate-in-one-simple-flowchart

1. Mankind has been driving off cliffs for as long as there's been mankind. What makes you think there'll be any OTHER handling of a problem?

2. Ah, the ultimate Fascist fantasy, the iron hand of the government can crushfix EVERYTHING. Of course, government has ALWAYS made it better instead of worse with their crushfixing, now hasn't it . . . ?

3. More Fascism, except forgetting that Obama is the red tape CREATOR in chief. Red tape IS the way the government deals with things.

4. Mankind has been increasingly hacking the planet for 2-3 centuries. This is not an option once it's already underway. As Issac Asimov said, 'A crisis is when you run out of options.'

5. Asimov talked about that, too. . . .

6. The verdict does not benefit the described option. . . .

 

[arkmundi]

Aw how cute, he thinks that democrats are the people who will do the right thing, and republicans are the problem :lol:

I really appreciate the deprecating discussion of serious issues. No, I believe our political system here in America is seriously fracked. But we have a set of incumbent politicians and at least Obama is willing to admit the seriousness and reality of anthropogenic climate change. Unlike the Tea Party, ALEC, API dominated GOP, who are all climate deniers and perpetuating climate denial in this country through ALEC led initiatives backed by some serious bucks. Every time you fill up your automobile's gas tank, you buy gas which goes into the record breaking profit coffers of the oil giants, which funds ALEC and therefore climate denial. Having ditched that future (I'm car free and carbon neutral), do you really believe I'm for any politician? No, they're all fracked. But some offer a distinctly better option than others. For your information, I voted Jill Stein from the green party for president, knowing that Massachusetts would be carried by the Democrats.

 

[arkmundi]

Alaska, summer 2013
A Clear View of Alaska—and Maybe Our Future, By Phil Plait, June 20, 2013 at Slate
Stunning, rare NASA image of Alaska cloud free; record high temperatures

In other words, weather patterns are changing because the climate is changing. The Arctic climate system in particular may be undergoing a rapid evolution due to changing conditions there; loss of sea ice (which exposes darker water, increasing the amount of heat absorbed from sunlight), the wobbling of the jet stream, and more subtle variations are playing havoc with the normal weather.

The melt in Greenland and the high temperatures in Alaska may be more signs—like we needed more—of the reality of climate change. Even scarier is the fact that the climate models used before didn’t predict this sort of thing. The climate is very complex, and it’s hard to model it accurately. This is well-known and is why it’s so hard to make long-term predictions.

But before the deniers crow that climatologists don’t know what they’re doing, note this well: The predictions made using these models almost always seem to underestimate the effects of climate change. That’s true in this case, too. So it’s not that the models are wrong and therefore climate change doesn’t exist. It’s that the models aren’t perfect, and it’s looking like things are worse than we thought.

 

[neptronix]

Every time you fill up your automobile's gas tank, you buy gas which goes into the record breaking profit coffers of the oil giants, which funds ALEC and therefore climate denial. Having ditched that future (I'm car free and carbon neutral), do you really believe I'm for any politician? No, they're all fracked. But some offer a distinctly better option than others. For your information, I voted Jill Stein from the green party for president, knowing that Massachusetts would be carried by the Democrats.

http://talk.baltimoresun.com/showthread.php?155916-Big-Oil-Execs-Prefer-Obama
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/...-s-history-of-war-profiteering-discrimination
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/wa...3/14/exxon-chevron-bp-greased-obamas-campaign

Ay, at least you mostly acknowledge that both parties are bought out by oil. Thanks for voting your conscience instead of for evil. I voted for Gary Johnson. But i do not realistically expect anyone decent to ever sit in the white house. They'd be assassinated very quickly.

I don't expect these crooks to solve the problem they created.
Voluntary action, and stupid high energy prices will git 'r done in time..

 

[arkmundi]

But i do not realistically expect anyone decent to ever sit in the white house. They'd be assassinated very quickly.

Uh oh, let's not digress into the the whole JFK conspiracy, but yea. Its not the person, but the office. Anyone who goes into that room will quickly find the strings dropping from the ceiling and controlling their every movement, their every word. I don't blame Obama any more than any other so called "President". There is a vast system that insures the military-industrial-politico complex remains static. I vote so I can maintain the illusion of living in a democratic society, and with the outside chance we just might restore it after the collapse of the empire.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/...-s-history-of-war-profiteering-discrimination

Intended or not, it was a big F U to the people who had planned for months to travel to Washington to protest the critical cause of climate change. Worse, there has been no response whatsoever to the tens of thousands of protesters who came to his house on Sunday, nor to the many many more who were at coordinating marches in cities across the country and untold numbers of people who were there with them in spirit.

My sentiments exactly, coming back from DC from that rally. And yea, there really were 40,000+ people there from my observation, making the "biggest climate change rally." We'll see what he has to say Tuesday. I might be surprised. Hope so.

 

[dnmun]

what he says is kinda pointless any more. these racist just cannot stand that they lost the civil war and that a black is president so they blame him for GHWB horrible failings that through the country into this depression and two useless wars out of sheer redneck stupidity.

the world added 1.3% more CO2 last year than the year before. 31 gigatons of CO2.

sure the andeman islands will be submerged and most of the pacific islands too but it will be all the major metropolitan areas on the coasts of the US that will suffer the most from the rising sea levels. how much of NY is more than 30' above sea level? boston, miami, and even inland seaports like philly? there is no going back and the die is cast.

how many billions will be displaced? along with the complete failure of agriculture throughout the southeast asian heartland where tens of millions will starve when the monsoon stops and the glaciers disappear.

 

[neptronix]

what he says is kinda pointless any more. these racist just cannot stand that they lost the civil war and that a black is president so they blame him for GHWB horrible failings that through the country into this depression and two useless wars out of sheer redneck stupidity.

You've just revealed that you're out of touch with reality. I've been on this board for quite some time. You should know that i do not remotely fit this profile. I feel as if you are doing this ----v

how many billions will be displaced? along with the complete failure of agriculture throughout the southeast asian heartland where tens of millions will starve when the monsoon stops and the glaciers disappear.

Yep, they will starve an die only if they don't relocate inland or head north or south - to the equator line - in the next 50-100 years. But i believe that population will be limited by the availability of energy before that happens.

We have a very long time to prepare.

 

[Chalo]

Yep, they will starve an die only if they don't relocate inland or head north or south - to the equator line - in the next 50-100 years. But i believe that population will be limited by the availability of energy before that happens.

We have a very long time to prepare.

I have no doubt that people can adapt to their new conditions, even if the changes are swift. We are very adaptable. What I think will fail to keep pace is the agricultural support systems that we depend on. Cropland can turn into desert wasteland a lot faster than former taiga, tundra, steppe or whatever can be turned into productive cropland. In the next few generations I expect we'll be required to feed an increasing population on a rapidly decreasing amount of arable land.

Facing these problems would be a whole lot easier if people didn't insist on crapping out kids like stray dogs. If we could reduce our population by means other than famine, war, plague, or engineered extermination, then all the challenges we face would be surmountable. And the damage we continue to do would decrease.

 

[neptronix]

Facing these problems would be a whole lot easier if people didn't insist on crapping out kids like stray dogs. If we could reduce our population by means other than famine, war, plague, or engineered extermination, then all the challenges we face would be surmountable. And the damage we continue to do would decrease.

That would solve it all in one fell swoop. God - think about the world our parents lived in. They drove cars without catalytic converters and nobody wanted the Japanese cars that came here in the 1970's even though they got like 50mpg. Abundance of resources..

People are living longer, but the birth rate is actually starting to go down. Despite what you hear on the news, the economy is slowing. Young folks are interested in farming again. Green transport is losing it's negative stigma.. to me, it looks like we are slowly regressing back to sort of an agrarian lifestyle, but this time, aided by technology.

As for agriculture, you've seen the aquaponics vids i've posted in various threads, right? it's looking like we don't need soil in the future.. closed loop agriculture systems can provide with very little water waste. Agriculture will just continue to get more efficient, like computers have, over time. We've seen that actually happen with what monsanto is doing - although it is moving in the wrong direction - eventually our food system will right itself.

I used to want to put a gun in my mouth thinking about this stuff. But i think what will happen is that advances in technology will save us.

 

[bigmoose]

There is another "scientific" opinion that includes Mars in the data set. There is no human activity on Mars... The shrinkage of their polar caps is independent of human activity. Sort of seems that this "baseline" needs to be removed from the data set to discern the effect of human activity...
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

 

[etriker]

There is another "scientific" opinion that includes Mars in the data set. There is no human activity on Mars... The shrinkage of their polar caps is independent of human activity. Sort of seems that this "baseline" needs to be removed from the data set to discern the effect of human activity...
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

He say a mini ice age is coming next year ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khabibullo_Abdusamatov

The little ice age caused by less humans ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age

 

[arkmundi]

I'll be damned, decisive progress ... Obama Goes Full Climate Hawk In Speech Unveiling Plan To Cut Carbon Pollution

 

[neptronix]

I've read a few paragraphs of that article and have not found out exactly what he's doing, and considering this is thinkprogress ( gee, not biased at all? ), i am not reading further.

Without exposing myself to the mechanical dronings of a corrupt sociopath, can you tell me exactly WHAT he is going to do?

I read that he is going to choke coal plants elsewhere. This means that they will shut down coal plants and replace them with natural gas and coal plants. They've done this here in Utah in the past few years to meet new emissions standards. Yes - my ebikes are powered by gasoline if i plug into the grid...

Did he lay out funding and a definite plan of action to move to renewables, or just bash on coal, which means that we trade one fossil fuel for another?

 

[Hillhater]

.. If we could reduce our population by means other than famine, war, plague, or engineered extermination, then all the challenges we face would be surmountable. And the damage we continue to do would decrease.

.

Seems simple then if it comes to the crunch.... just dose the water supplies with a human "sterilizer" ( or the "Gay gene" :wink: )..... and watch the population drop !

 

[arkmundi]

I'm not into President bashing because its counter productive. The best that "we the people" can do is, first our best in electing someone we can believe it, second rewarding them when they do something we really like, and lastly, punishing them when they do something we really don't like - its the behavioural model of influence.

I really like how the entire federal bureaucratic apparatus has been transformed since Bush to NOT deny, and in fact significantly support real science in its estimation and modelling of climate change and its impacts. So Obama will be using the EPA as the means to implement science based policy. This is a major shift in the right direction.

Recently, NOAA redesigned Climate.gov, a one-stop web resource for information about climate change and climate-related tools, resources, and support for people making climate-related decisions. Climate.gov now features a refined interface, enhanced functionality, and new content and tools that make it easier to find, use, and visualize climate data and data products from NOAA and other federal agencies. For instance.

 

[neptronix]

I'm not into President bashing because its counter productive. The best that "we the people" can do is, first our best in electing someone we can believe it, second rewarding them when they do something we really like, and lastly, punishing them when they do something we really don't like - its the behavioural model of influence.

We have maybe held government accountable for about 2% of what it's done, with little result. We know George Bush lied to us about the wars, but him and his cronies got special protection by the Obama administration. Obama engages in the same military behavior and liberals apologized for him up until now, just like republicans apologized for Bush and what he did.

At any given point, you have 1 political party doing something really nasty and only half of the country even caring at all, maybe 5% of the half of that country actually bringing it to light.. 1% of that half actually trying to do something..

If this were a kintergarten playground and two kids were fighting, it would be like the parents and school staff were taking sides and betting on which kid was going to win the fight.

I really like how the entire federal bureaucratic apparatus has been transformed since Bush to NOT deny, and in fact significantly support real science in its estimation and modelling of climate change and its impacts. So Obama will be using the EPA as the means to implement science based policy. This is a major shift in the right direction.

We have yet to see the results, but i have stated a few times where the Obama administration has laughably failed. The coal plant crackdown is a positive - but as you know, it means that we will be using natural gas instead.

Bush had the 1 watt initiative http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Watt_Initiative, which was a pretty good idea for conserving electric power. He put forth tons and tons of DOE money to hydrogen, solar, and electric cars during the housing boom. Then on the other hand he opened up the loophole for fracking and started a bunch of oil wars.

Looking at the results of both administrations so far, the results are similar.

Recently, NOAA redesigned Climate.gov, a one-stop web resource for information about climate change and climate-related tools, resources, and support for people making climate-related decisions. Climate.gov now features a refined interface, enhanced functionality, and new content and tools that make it easier to find, use, and visualize climate data and data products from NOAA and other federal agencies. For instance.

NASA already had something like this. Our government in Utah did this, saying that it was a solution for all the smog in this valley.. i just laughed. Information and posturing is nice - action is another thing..

 

[arkmundi]

I'm sure there is absolutely nothing I can say about climate change and current progress that won't be seriously fracked here. But I get a certain amount of pleasure saying it anyway. The ES forum is not a place I hang out with apart from its usefulness in building my solar ebike. My two decades of highly effective involvement here in Massachusetts in pushing both the science and the action forward are quite enough for me. I'll be spending this Sunday with the 350ma.org crowd planning for their next phase, as we shut down our coal fired plants a head of schedule. With John Kerry as Secretary of State and now with Ed Markey in his Senate seat, we here find much of the denialists rhetoric laughable. Its just ludicrously so wrong, from a more informed point of view. Very substantial progress is being made, thanks to our collective work in keeping Kerry, Markey, Obama and every other politician who represents us informed with real science and real solutions. I piss on your bike tires and spit on its rim with impunity. :lol:

 

[arkmundi]

The sweet smell of the internal combustion engine
[youtube]3VDqWIYpt_o[/youtube]
Let's give 'er a go!
[youtube]x6jwxJlFfGM[/youtube]
It's like nature herself cringes at this thing!
[youtube]4mSeUwxD0oU[/youtube]

 

[arkmundi]

Great editorial in the Sunday NY Times, with stunning images from space:
Gorgeous Glimpses of Calamity

And this was the view from some 65,000 miles away. Far closer in, NASA maintains a small fleet of Earth-observing satellites. Unfortunately, their visual record makes it even clearer that something is going badly wrong in the garden.

Across the world, tremendous wildfires can be seen raging during the searing summers of the new millennium. As the oceans warm, vast equatorial hurricanes have smashed North America. In Canada, the Northwest Passage has twice become clear of ice during the last decade.

And the smog is no longer localized. A gunmetal exhalation of coal and fuel smoke blankets China almost daily, extending out across the sea toward the Korean Peninsula, Japan and beyond. We are tracking glaciers retreating, and immense polar icebergs calving into rising waters. Gargantuan sandstorms extend out from expanding deserts, sometimes traversing the breadth of the Atlantic...

...But as five decades of space exploration make clear, there are no other worlds even remotely suitable for human life — at least not in this solar system. We simply have no other place to go.

...Having constructed a civilization capable of observing our still paradisiacal world from objectivity-inducing distances, we need to set aside our squabbles, recognize that we face a species-wide threat, and use our scientific-technical genius to protect the only known home of life in the universe.

 

[arkmundi]

A new National Climate Assessment was released today.
[youtube]UatUDnFmNTY[/youtube]