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julesa
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If I found out a device I bought was engineered not to work with generic batteries, I would return it to the manufacturer as defective. Defective by design, maybe, but defective regardless.
http://www.defectivebydesign.org/
http://www.defectivebydesign.org/
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michaelplogue
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I know computer printer manufactures did that a while back (may still be) so that you could only use their toner/ink cartridges. Didn't take long for the companies making compatible expendables to hack around it.
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Yes, don't underestimate the power of modern technology.
256-bit can be extremely secure as far as modern decrypting methods go. I'd be really miffed if I couldn't use a generic battery with a device because if the original battery was undesirable, why would I want to replace it with something just like it? I would want the ability to upgrade with batteries that are knowingly awesome (And "upgraded batteries" from the manufacturer wouldn't instill much confidence)! If I couldn't, I'd consider the device pure junk and I'd readily seek alternatives.
If there's enough people that demand generic compatibility, there'll be competitive products that remain generically compatible (Assuming the competition doesn't make too much extra profit from their DRM, which sounds like they might.). The frightening thing, though, is that the majority of the public doesn't really care where they get their replacements from so it'll likely gain a remarkably good market share assuming it boosts the manufacturer's profits.
256-bit can be extremely secure as far as modern decrypting methods go. I'd be really miffed if I couldn't use a generic battery with a device because if the original battery was undesirable, why would I want to replace it with something just like it? I would want the ability to upgrade with batteries that are knowingly awesome (And "upgraded batteries" from the manufacturer wouldn't instill much confidence)! If I couldn't, I'd consider the device pure junk and I'd readily seek alternatives.
If there's enough people that demand generic compatibility, there'll be competitive products that remain generically compatible (Assuming the competition doesn't make too much extra profit from their DRM, which sounds like they might.). The frightening thing, though, is that the majority of the public doesn't really care where they get their replacements from so it'll likely gain a remarkably good market share assuming it boosts the manufacturer's profits.
heathyoung
100 kW
Oh yay. I hope it doesn't work as well as HP's setup - they have a chip on their printer cartridges that shows pages remaining.
If you insert a new cartridge in a printer to replace an old one, and dont follow the correct printer reset procedure before you fit it, then the new cartrige gets set to empty, and you cant print from it (nor reset it!!!).
If you insert a new cartridge in a printer to replace an old one, and dont follow the correct printer reset procedure before you fit it, then the new cartrige gets set to empty, and you cant print from it (nor reset it!!!).
John in CR
100 TW
Hopefully the guru's here can work this to our advantage. First, hack it so we can use our own batteries. Then hack it to put in our controllers, so ONLY our batteries key will enable OUR bikes. It could make a nice theft deterrent once common.
John
John
Takemehome
1 kW
julesa said:
I totally agree with that.
When I buy a product, it is mine, therefore I must be able to do whatever I want with it. IT IS NOT A RENTAL.
If the product is advertised as DRM, I don't buy it.
And if it's not, then it's kind of a fraud.
(Hidden clause in the contract: if you buy this product, then you must buy any other product from us and nobody else to use with this device.)
I return it.
A battery is NOT a part of the product, it is a different product.
Show me a patent of a product including the battery as a part of it.
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dragonfire
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the recent asus eee-pc netbook series ( 1008-series) comes with a non-replaceable organic batterie, too.
i can well see why manufacturers wouldn´t want to have replacements on these ( if you open the case it should still be doable) batteries in laptops, cellphones and cars. cause if the owner that made the mod sells it and the next owner still believes it´s a safe chemistry with eternal live there may be a fiery surprise coming sometimes down the road.
no manufacturer will want that, and most governments throw founds into lipo chmistzry development and market capitalisation.
on a positive sidenote, these devices can be used as batterie controllers as for charging and in use, too.
so controllers will not be in efective need for direct feedback from the batteries allowing for a more modular built and even more important interchangeability of cells in like charging machines ensuring compatibility and logging of function within the batterie packs itself so any vehicle compatible with the case format and batterie type in general can safely run it.
and governments can make sure that certain power limits ( like say 36 volts) are not exceeded with batteries sold legally, too.
they will surely come.
i can well see why manufacturers wouldn´t want to have replacements on these ( if you open the case it should still be doable) batteries in laptops, cellphones and cars. cause if the owner that made the mod sells it and the next owner still believes it´s a safe chemistry with eternal live there may be a fiery surprise coming sometimes down the road.
no manufacturer will want that, and most governments throw founds into lipo chmistzry development and market capitalisation.
on a positive sidenote, these devices can be used as batterie controllers as for charging and in use, too.
so controllers will not be in efective need for direct feedback from the batteries allowing for a more modular built and even more important interchangeability of cells in like charging machines ensuring compatibility and logging of function within the batterie packs itself so any vehicle compatible with the case format and batterie type in general can safely run it.
and governments can make sure that certain power limits ( like say 36 volts) are not exceeded with batteries sold legally, too.
they will surely come.
dragonfire said:
Phew! Thank goodness my EEE pc is a 901. Even though it seems hard to make it as "portable" with a different battery, I don't have much confidence in the original charging protocol OR battery now that my battery is down to 85% of its original capacity in the period of 4 months of use, so I definitely would want to control its charging and the battery's brand.
dragonfire
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batterie choice ( by brands) on laptops is not a good option for the regular customers, most alternatives will be knockoffs and there is hardly a warranty for total compliance; as these batts will be sold by price and not oem quality and the controllers are custom-made for that exact batteries there are only few upgrade possibilities other than self-soldering cells orf similar specs and chmistry and hope it will work out.
these new "organic" batteries seemigly get a higher energy density ( seize of 3-cell but runs like a 5-6 cell lipo) and seemingly pretty good cycle life as being non-replaceable.
these new "organic" batteries seemigly get a higher energy density ( seize of 3-cell but runs like a 5-6 cell lipo) and seemingly pretty good cycle life as being non-replaceable.
dragonfire said:
Indeed.
On my laptop, the original battery was a 7.4v*6.6Ah battery = 47 wh battery (Lasted upto 5 hours during normal operation, so the laptop typically consumed a little over 9 watts) - Let's take some 5Ah 4s Lipo, run it through a LDO 12v regulator (The original adapter supposedly provided upto 3A, haha.) and emulate the DC adapter, and have 12v*5Ah = 60Wh. Oh yeah! The original battery would remain in place for the 5 minutes of charge it could provide.
I just wonder where I could safely store the LiPo during traveling. If I were to get in a crash, I don't think "on my body" would be the best place unless it were somehow protected by maybe bubble wrap, but yet on my body would be most convenient when using the laptop while standing or just quickly using it.
1. brute force (correct me if i am wrong ) like war dialing.
if you want to know the unlisted phone number of someone and they will not tell you you can then if you know the first 3 digits you can dial
xxx0000
xxx0001
xxx0002
all the way to
xxx9999
it will take 10000 calls at the most to find the unlisted number.
the same with brute force.
however the chip may be made to self destruct or erase if the key is fails a certain number of times.
2. you dont need to remove the chip to get the key you can connect a logic recorder/analyzer of some sort to the chip with it in the battery.
even if it is 100% secure counterfeit cells could make it to the battery maker.
if the manufacturer is dumb enough to be fooled into taking a shipment of bad cells they can assemble them and make a pack that can explode and catch fire.
if you want to know the unlisted phone number of someone and they will not tell you you can then if you know the first 3 digits you can dial
xxx0000
xxx0001
xxx0002
all the way to
xxx9999
it will take 10000 calls at the most to find the unlisted number.
the same with brute force.
however the chip may be made to self destruct or erase if the key is fails a certain number of times.
2. you dont need to remove the chip to get the key you can connect a logic recorder/analyzer of some sort to the chip with it in the battery.
even if it is 100% secure counterfeit cells could make it to the battery maker.
if the manufacturer is dumb enough to be fooled into taking a shipment of bad cells they can assemble them and make a pack that can explode and catch fire.
nutsandvolts said:
dragonfire
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there was that recent research that people have difficulties to visualize or calculate numbers if these get bigger than 2-3 times of their monthly income. not a joke ( nor ment to be mean or slanderous, i´d just have said "bazillions" ).
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i used the phone as an example of war dialing.
probably there will be several computers running a block of numbers.
using the phone example.
pc 1 doing 0000 to 1000
pc 2 doing 1001 to 2000 and so on
10 computers could hammer out the phone numbers in 1 10th the time and with computers getting really cheap it is possible.
a logic recorder would work because i am sure the chip on the battery would have to send the key to the device.
so if you can intercept the string of 1's and 0's in mid route to the device you can clone it'
probably there will be several computers running a block of numbers.
using the phone example.
pc 1 doing 0000 to 1000
pc 2 doing 1001 to 2000 and so on
10 computers could hammer out the phone numbers in 1 10th the time and with computers getting really cheap it is possible.
a logic recorder would work because i am sure the chip on the battery would have to send the key to the device.
so if you can intercept the string of 1's and 0's in mid route to the device you can clone it'
swbluto said:
ink cartridges they have tried that already and there was a lawsuit once but if i remember right i think the lawsuit was won in favor of the re fillers.
also they make chip resetters and resettable chips for the hp 10 and 11 style ink cartridges
this is what they look like
http://www.officesupplies-b2b.com/b2b/pics/HP10_11_Compatible_Ink_Cartridge.jpg
here is the chip resetters and chips
http://www.macroenter.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=chip&Search.x=0&Search.y=0
also they make chip resetters and resettable chips for the hp 10 and 11 style ink cartridges
this is what they look like
http://www.officesupplies-b2b.com/b2b/pics/HP10_11_Compatible_Ink_Cartridge.jpg
here is the chip resetters and chips
http://www.macroenter.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=chip&Search.x=0&Search.y=0
nutsandvolts said:
