Cynical Squints at Bicycle "Locks"

[Reid Welch]

I need a bike lock. Who doesn't?

I had one of these on my bike, but



I'd mislaid the key, and the bike was locked here in my garage.
So, darn it, I decided to destroy the thing.
How hard will that be?
"Cut resistant" is claimed by the maker.

Do you think of a dremel tool, battery operated, with a punky standard cutting wheel as a cutting tool?
Well, you should.

While all the online worriers speak of nippers and jacks and freezing and prying instruments.. and BiC pen caps turning round-key tumblers,

what about... let's forget all that bother.
Go deluxe with this pocket-hidable, one tool-opens-all:






(but I used only the cheapie solid al-oxide 15/16" disc to open my cable lock. the fiberglass wheels are much faster and more robust. and then there are -full sized battery powered cut-off grinders- out there, eh?)

It required the
just twelve seconds to zip through the vinyl clad 9/16" steel wire cable.
:x


Into the shi*tcan, oh ruined, worthless, false-security cable lock

I need a new lock!

Problem: I am now a cynic.

Heck, most folks already know that cable locks are easy to cut.
Thing is, you don't need even a bolt cutter. A pocket sized abrasive wheel battery operated tool will do a quick job
-through any lock system-
(but cables are all like butter--and so, are the poorest of all)

Let's have fun with this topic, OK?

-----

6' (1.8m) x 9/16" (15mm) braided steel cable resists cutting and sawing.

Resolved: that's A Big Lie from a major maker of security products.

Let's now look at another product; the mondo-cool handcuff-style of bike lock. Here's an image and the blurb...in the next form:

 

[Reid Welch]

Mountain Bikes Review of the one-link version of this lock

http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Extras/product_85921.shtml


Submitted by Raiyn a Weekend Warrior from St. Pete, FL
Date Reviewed: 8/24/2006 10:20:35 PM
FavoriteTrail: The one that passes your Momma's house
Duration Product Used: 2 Years
Price Paid: $70
Purchased At: LBS
Strengths: Intimidating (yet decieving) looks secures my beater bike
Weaknesses: "BiC-able" cylinder lock, DISGRACEFUL "Customer Service", center links easily popped with common tools
Similar Products Tried: Kryptonite NY Chain with NEW EV Disc lock & variuos U-locks
Bike Setup: Thankfully not stolen
Bottom Line:

Two years ago, I spent one of the most frustrating hours of my LIFE speaking to the customer service department of Master Lock in reference to this craptacular product. (800) 308-9244 I was calling to find out what action they were taking in regards to replacing their BiC-able locks. I started out very friendly and understanding with the first representative as she was having difficulty locating my Street Cuffs on their website (that should have set off alarm bells) She said that I could call back when I had the information, which I did within a minute of the time it took to fire up the PC.

The second representative seemed uninterested in following up with me on a solution to the issue at hand, she placed me on hold after informing me that she would need to speak to a supervisor. She came back on the line to tell me that she could not find a supervisor and that she would need to place me on hold again in order to get a supervisor. No problem I waited for a couple of minutes then I heard a click as if she were coming back on the line only to be met by silence, no hold music, nothing a minute or so later I get the "If you'd like to make a call please hang up and try your call again message".

I call back and demand to speak to a supervisor I get placed on hold a minute or two later I get the "I can't find my supervisor can I place you on hold again" speil. I get placed on hold AGAIN and again the person disconnects me after a minute or so.

I call back yet AGAIN. This time I ACTUALLY get to speak with a supervisor. I explain the situation to her that I have their products which have been shown to be easily compromised with a BiC pen. I explain what locks I ask what actions are being taken to solve this problem. She informs me that if I'd like to send the locks back (at MY expense) they'll replace them for me. Great wonderful, I think I ask her what they intend to replace them with she tells me they'll be replaced by new items of the same model numbers as my products. "The problem is with the style of keyway used in those products" to which she replies "we have several different levels of locks not all of which are affected by your situation" I reply "I understand that. My locks ARE affected. I want to know what steps your company is taking." She again asks me what locks I own, I repeat the information back to her and she again replies with the "several different levels speech" This goes back and forth ad nauseum until I ask to speak to someone in the product development department.
CSSupervisor: "They're not availiable"
ME: "Why not" I ask "Why can't I speak to someone who knows what your company is doing about this situation? I have $X,XXX worth of bikes locked up with your products and I want to know what you're doing to fix this issue."
CSS: "You said you have bicycles sir?"
ME:"Yes I do and I don't want them stolen my some schmuck with a Bic pen"
CSS: "Master Lock has a theft guarantee"
ME: "Yeah what's your point your locks can't protect my bike"
CSS: "That's not my problem sir, we have a guarantee on our bicycle products."
ME: "Look I UNDERSTAND that. You also have a LIFETIME warranty on your products should they be shown to be defective do you not?"
CSS: "Yes"
ME: "Then I would like to know what steps your company is taking in order to recitfy this issue"
CSS: "We'll send you new locks"
ME: "I don't want locks with the barrel style keyway because people have proven to me that they can be opened with a PEN"
CSS: "Is there anything else I can help you with?"
ME: "You can answer my question - What is MASTER LOCK going to do about this situation?"
CSS: "I don't have that information"
ME: "Then I want to speak to someone that does"
CSS: "They're in the building but they're unavailiable."
ME: "Why can't I speak to someone who knows what's gong on?"
CSS: "They aren't availiable"
ME: "Then I want to speak to YOUR supervisor"
CSS: "That person is unavailable, can I have your information please?"
ME: "Mr. _________ (###)###-####"
CSS: "I'll forward your information I'm terminating this call"
ME: "Hold on, why can't I speak to someone else?
CSS: ______dialtone_____

I called back and demanded to speak to someone from "Product Development". I was placed on hold.
CS Representative: "I see someone let me see if they are available. Can I put you on hold?"
ME: "Sure"
CSR: "Is this Mr___________"
ME: "Yes"
CSR; "Someone will contact you" __disconnect___

I called back a couple more times and got the same basic response.
Later I was contacted by Master Schlock and told:

"A lock that can be compromised with a BiC pen is 'Not Defective'"


Product Manager: Please tell me what it is that you've told out customer service representatives.
ME: I told them that I had three locks that were able to be compromised by BiC pens and that i wanted to know what your company would do about it.
PM: We have a lifetime warranty on our locks and if you'd like we'd be happy to exchange your locks for new one of the same model.
ME: That doesn't solve the problem.
PM: What problem?
ME: The problem is that your locks are defective due to the fact that they can be opened with a BiC pen!
PM: All locks can be compromised in one way or another (proceds to list several ways) so we don't feel that a lock being compromised by a BiC pen as a defect.
ME: Yes but you don't see people walking down the street with bolt cutters in their back pocket, but you can find a pen in any school kid's backpack.
ME: I can understand bolt cutters, freon, Rifles -You know "Tough Under Fire" sledgehammers and so on but a ten cent BiC pen?

(We go back and forth on the BiC pen issue for several minutes)
PM: We can offer you three U Locks with flat keys but they aren't as secure as the locks that you have.
ME: I beg to differ at least those can't be opened with a BiC pen.
ME: Why won't you admit that people opening your locks with a pen is a problem?
PM: Because it isn't
ME: (incredulous) So I'm supposed to trust locks that I know can be opened with a BiC pen and that you won't admit that a pen being able to open your locks is a defect.
PM: A pen opening a lock isn't a defect.
ME: I'm sorry you feel this way. Your competitor Kryptonite obviously feels differently in this matter they've admitted that it is a problem and are taking steps to solve the problem.
PM: Our locks are different - We use a different style of lock than they do.
ME: What makes it different?
PM: That's proprietary information that I can't give you.
ME: What is it different pin tensions? (I then give a dissertation on the differences between the ACE I and ACE II cylinder and state that that had minimal impact on people opening the lock)
PM: We have one of the top five lock engineers in the world working on this and he hasn't proven that our locks can be opened by a pen.
ME: I know college students who'd be happy to demonstrate
Cutomer Service Manager: Sir we've offered you a solution: We can exchange your locks for the flat key style which we don't feel is as secure as the ones you currently have
ME: You haven't offered me an acceptable solution, you haven't even acknowledged that there IS a problem. With all the media exposure this is recieveing you'd THINK you might want to take this more seriously.
PM: We've dealt with the media - We released a statement (Found elsewhere) the re's nothing that you can tell the media that we haven't covered.
ME: I'll bet.
PM: Now you can take the offer that we've given or you can decline:
ME: Unacceptable
PM: That's your decsion Mr.____
ME: _hang up_

About a week later the company was shamed into doing a recall , but they made it so that the owners of the Street Cuffs were ineligible.

For the full story google the following:
A lock that can be compromised with a BiC pen is "Not Defective"
If I could give negative chilli's I would.

 

[Mathurin]

Well theese days I use a ribbon lock as you do, but somehow I expect I could leave my bike unlocked and it would stay there.

Otherwise, the best in my view is a U lock with a ribbon or chain lock, so they both lock the bike onto an object and are holding both wheels. So it takes two different tools to get the bike, hydraulic jack (or a pen in the keyhole) for the U lock and saw or cutter for the cable, although if you don't mind not beeing subtle, an angle ginder'll get you through both fairly quickly. If a ribbon/chain is closed with a buffalo brand lock, just slip a wet shirt though the chackle(?) and put your weight on it.

 

[Reid Welch]

That's all good--and it's agreed all around that when they really want to steal a bike, they will.

I just don't see why don't the thieves all use a cut-off wheel?
Nothing about your system would delay a pro thief for more than two minutes at most.

Most in our favor:
Most of our bikes are so oddly customized with alien-lookng -stuff-,
that they are not bike-thief prime material to start with.

Thick chain or thick u-bolts may give a little more security by taking a bit longer to zip through.
In the case of steel vs. abrasive cutting instruments,
hardened steel counts for zero.
Hard and soft steel both cut the same way to silicon carbide.

I would think that most of the real bike thieves will be using cutting wheels.

Very few passers-by will interfere with anyone doing-anything...
even to a human...much less in witness to a bike thief.

I wonder and think: A noise-making bike alarm is the next most important deterrent for a bike locking system.

Many or most times I park my bike, I'm parking outside the door of some store, and I'm not more than a hundred feet from the bike.
IF it makes a piercing shriek because someone has touched it,
I'd hear that. If I had a sensor send me a paging signal, even better.

What I'd most like, semi-serious, for most stores here do no offer any bike anchorages.

-- a giant suction cup, battery powered suction, gluing the bike to the concrete.
Few thieves think to bring along a putty knife,
now do they? Ha ha. Don't laugh-- it could work!
Could work, by its novelty only, as long as it's a rare thing,
few thieves would know what it even is (thinking it's a permant anchor in concrete , much less how to defeat it other than by cutting the short chain.

description of the concept:

Spun or stamped steel mushroom bell overlaps the cup
and sinks and flush to the pavement when the cup is pumped down by a foot stomp.
A laminated, thin, inner bell intercepts and diverts any probing screwdriver pries, away from the actual suction cup.
A shriek alarm goes off if the device is touched.

A few links of the heaviest steel chain hooks to the BB of the bike with padlock, or a U lock.
The suction device could be Li. powered by a single cell.
A bit of tire slime would make the seal quite airtight;
the miniature suction pump inside the bell maintaining the partial vacuum. I'd think that 8" diameter would be plenty large enough for the entire unit.

Rough idea submitted to the public domain
--probably already tried/discarded by others

 

[Reid Welch]

If a ribbon/chain is closed with a buffalo brand lock, just slip a wet shirt though the shackle and put your weight on it.

So, I don't get it yet. What's the wet shirt for?
To prevent ingress of a pry bar?

although if you don't mind not being subtle, an angle ginder'll ....

That little Dremel up above and a fiberglass silicon carbide wheel is quiet and subtle enough for almost any occasion. Twelve seconds for cable (or less).
I bet, less than a minute for the thickest chain.

The lock makers seem all to pretend that "cutting tools" are only of the saw or nipping variety.
They sell baloney as if it were the stuff of the Pyramids.




thanks,

r.

 

[Reid Welch]

bike motion alarms

http://www.webbikeworld.com/r3/voltage-valet/

retailer
http://tinyurl.com/yczssy

Two options are available: First, secure your possessions to a stationary object and if the lock cable is cut the alarm sounds. The second option is activated by pressing the "on" button and your alarm will go off if moved. Imagine attaching the locked cable to your possessions and if they are moved a loud, piercing alarm sounds. Perhaps even more useful, the Voltage Valet Cable Lock Alarm works well as a travel door alarm. Simply activate the unit in "don't move me" mode and place it on the door knob of your hotel room. If moved at all the alarm will sound setting off a piercing deterent immediately.

And from the same retailer:


Mountable under a bike seat? In a bag, with noise emitter brought to the outside? Whatever the noise emitter is,

in the example of this unit, one could choose a louder noisemaker if needed.

And thus have, for ten bucks,
a motion sensor that can be stealthed into the ebike's design, for very little money or design effort.

Might be something I should try.

 

[Reid Welch]

http://www.lockalarm.com/cable%20lock%20alarm3.htm

The Lock/Alarm is an innovative, portable device suitable for securing virtually any large items from theft. The Lock/Alarm has an ear piercing siren that will scare away potential thieves. When an attempt is made to cut through its ultra hard steel cable, or attack the main lock unit, the alarm starts screaming!

Thinny-thin cable, and no motion sensor, but it is loud and the cable is long.

Again--understanding that multiple defenses as Francois uses are always the best. Redundancy, if simple to implement, is a good thing.


Another, beefier
http://www.alarmlocks.com/

 

[Mathurin]

Oh yeah, I remember seeing kids beating on a bike that had an audible alarm next to a pool - because it had the alarm. It amused them to irritate the owner who was on the other side of the fence.

 

[Reid Welch]

Yeah, but you live in Canada, where bike owners are not allowed to carry sidearms.


We do.




----

The thing I would like to do: think outside the usual box.
A motion sensing alarm applies power to a noise maker.
It could also send signal to a pocket pager (as car alarms often do)

It could also send a signal to a smoke generator... or a paint sprayer...
or roman candle ignitors (jk).

Point: the motion sensor can and probably should be, hidden and not advertised.
A discrete, hidden switch could arm and disarm the device.
So could a remote control.

With our ebikes being systems of usually-odd and relatively complex extra components, it'd be a rare thief who would know how to deal with
something untoward, like an odd screaming sound or a sudden dribble of
ha ha, yellow paint from a drain valve in the bb area, offset of the wheelbase.

The latter would make a poor man's Lo-Jack vehicle tracking device!

That principle once led the cops to the driveway of a drunk driver who'd just wrecked into the telephone pole across from my house.

Antifreeze told the trail.

 

[knightmb]

Well I do have a thick "combo" lock chain that I take with me to lock up the bike, but yeah I think it's easy to break any "lock" with the tools you can buy today. I think the only thing going for me is that to pedal the bike is nearly impossible because of the weight and trying to run off with a 70 lb bicycle isn't very practical either. Heck, it's dang near impossible to lift the bike off the ground, let alone into the car or bed of a truck. Would certainly take two people to run off with my e-bike. I think I'm also glad that mine doesn't really look like an e-bike, makes it look "cheaper" I guess, LOL :lol: :lol:

 

[Reid Welch]

Yeah, we have these advantages!

Still, my funny side says it's be fun and -disarming to a bike thief,
that as soon as he jostles the bike, what happens?
a weird substance starts streaming to the pavement.

And he will think "WtF!". And it will be not paint, but "pet-safe" propylene glycol antifreeze. It makes a trail that can be followed in daylight very easily, if it's not a rainy day.

And it really harms nothing. But it'd be pretty easy to do! He'd have no idea
or interest in trying to figure out how to stop the leak.

better'n paint, better than roman candles, but not as much fun
as say, a sudden smoke bomb---that could result in the FD getting called
and the bike destroyed by the Local Anti-Terrorism Bomb Squad.



Oh, man I am goofy tonight! :lol:

 

[Reid Welch]

More fun? Hey, it's fun for me at least.

Let's look at the high-end U locks?

These locks all carry theft-replacement guarantees.
But read the fine print: only the value of the original bike can be covered;
not the upgrades.

Hmmm... the round-key locks of a couple years ago are now superceded because they could be picked by a kid with a BiC pen cap.

So now the keys are "flat keys". More on that in a moment.
Here's one vendor's ad copy.

screenshot:



Yes I want a lock with doudle security! :lol:
It's no good if a doodler could defeat the lock.

Well--inasmuch as any grinder can cut any of these mechanisms,
it seems like a pipe dream to spend that much for a U lock.
But! It has that improved flat key system! Uh oh....



Or was it the Other Brand that tends to give users fits with the keys...
I will go look, and then correct this smear posting as needed.



Hey, it is the Cynical Squint bike lock thread, ain't it

the truth!

 

[Reid Welch]

The writer below seems (then) to not know that cutting wheels make all steel
yield zippity doo-dah. But this is what folks read when they research bike locks:

http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-101597.html

RESULTS BY LOCK TYPE:

- CABLE LOCKS: Cable locks are a joke. Most lasted just a few seconds. None lasted long. A cable may have some value for protecting your front wheel or your helmet. They have ZERO value for protecting your bike.


- BARGAIN U-LOCKS: The OnGuard Bulldog Mini U-lock ($24 at REI) was as strong as the top ranked Kryptonite New York 3000 against manual attacks. But, OnGuard locks don't last long against power tools, so the New York 3000 remains the top choice for "high end" bikes parked in Manhattan and other "crime centers".

- KRYPTONITE - The Bad News: Their second best U-lock, the Evolution, failed against manual tools in just 95 seconds, after the application of massive force. The leverage force applied to break the Evolution was so massive that the frame of the bike was mangled during the attempt. A good reason to put the lock around the rear wheel, not the frame.

My personal interpretation of the test results is that NO Kryptonite U-lock using a "single bolt" design is likely to last more than two minutes against a skilled crook.

The Kryptonite New York 3000 is far more effective than other Kryptonite U-locks because it uses two bolts to lock both ends of the "U" shackle, just as OnGuard does with every one of its U-locks. Then, the New York 3000 adds "cut resistent" steel to the shackles, making it about 400% stronger than OnGuard's best locks against (the very rare) cutting attacks using power tools.

Reid noting: what the heck is he talking about, "power tools"?
IF he means grinders with cut-off wheels, and he must,
then the steel hardness means nothing whatsoever.
It might as well be cheese.

MY SUGGESTIONS: If the crooks in your town use ONLY manual tools,

????? Now it seems like he thinks of power tools as being what? A hydraulic shear?

and will never use power tools, buy the $24 OnGuard Bulldog Mini (or a larger Bulldog if your bike rack requires a larger lock). A compact lock provides less space for a crook to insert his tools, so buy the smallest version of the Bulldog that will fit around your rear wheel and your bike rack.

But, if you park on a "mega-sized urban college campus, or in a "high crime" area where Pro crooks have been known to power tools against targeted "high end" bikes, there is only one U-lock widely sold in the USA that really works: the Kryptonite New York 3000 Lock.

I don't buy it.

What about the keys, though?

(I'm looking again)

 

[Reid Welch]

http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-101597.html

Koffee, your problems with the newer Kryptonite locks might be the same problem I experienced when I first got my 2005 New Yorker lock. It is certainly a bit more difficult to get the NYL to lock than older Kryptonite models. However, after I practiced locking and unlocking the new design New York lock, and got the proper technique figured out, the lock works very well.

The 2005 model of the New York lock has a "double locking" design. That means that the "cuts" at the bottom of both ends of the "U" shackle must be facing the revolving bolts inside the crossbar for the bolts to engage the shackle. If the "U" is facing away from the bolts, they can not close, no matter how hard you turn the key.

So, if the key does not turn easily, just flip the shackle around and insert it again with the "cuts" in the ends of the shackles facing the bolts inside the crossbar.

Still getting resistance when turning the key? Both shackles must be seated deeply into the crossbar for the key to turn. If there is any resistance when you turn the key, give the round end of the shackle a slap with your hand to seat the shackle deeply into the crossbar. The key should then turn easily.

The "downside" of this design is that it makes you work a bit harder to lock your bike. The "upside" is that this design is at least twice as strong against certain types of attacks as the Kryptonite "fast locking" design that uses a bent foot on the end of one shackle and only one bolt in the crossbar.

Most hardware stores stock lubricants made just for locks, and a drop of lock lube in the keyway and on each bolt will make the lock work smoother, especially in cold weather.

So, with both the new OnGuard and Kryptonite New York lock, just remember: face the shackle cuts toward the lock bolts, and "slap" the shackle to seat it deeply into the crossbar before turning the key. When unlocking, don't let anything "push" on the shackle (such as the post you are locked to) and if the key will not turn, just "slap" the shackle down into the crossbar to release it from the pressure of the lock bolts. Then, the key turns easily. With a day or two of practice, the technique becomes fast and easy.


I have the old Kryptonite locks. They don't lock. I've taken them to a locksmith, and they are dead locks, from what the dude said. I don't know what happened, but they just stopped working shortly after I got them. But thanks for the update. If I ever decide to get a kryptonite again (unlikely), I'll be sure to keep the method of opening them in mind.

Koffee

I had the Kryptonite lock they talked about, but both of them failed- the first one only worked for 48 hours before it konked out and the second one only worked for about 3 months before it konked out. My only fear is that the lock may stop working while your bike is locked to it, then what are you going to do?



Koffee, thanks for posting about this. Otherwise, I might have thought it was a "fluke" when one of my new Kryptonite "flat key" locks refused to open this afternoon. It turns out that the "flat key" locks from Kryptonite and OnGuard have "keyways" with seven to ten thin metal plates in a "stack. If each plates is perfectly aligned with the others, the keyway forms a deep rectangle that fits around the key's shaft.

But, if you turn the key before it has fully seated against the bottom plate in that ten plate stack, the key might turn, but you will not be able to lock or unlock the crossbar.

Worse, when you remove the key, it will be impossible to reinsert the key, reach the bottom plate, and engage the lock bolts. The top plates are now out of alignment with the plates lower down in the keyway. The key gets "trapped" by the misaligned plates, turns freely, but can NOT release the lock.

Frustrated owners try to force the key lower into the crossbar, or to force it to turn against the misaligned plates. The result of using force to solve the problem are the broken keys that recent posts have mentioned.

Patience, not force, is the real solution. Shine a light into the keyway. Insert the key just 1/8th inch, and align the top metal plate by turning the key until its "rectangle" is matched perfectly to the "rectangle" on the second plate. Then, insert the key 2/8th of an inch, turn it until the rectangles on the top two plates is perfectly matched to the deepest plate. When every plate is in alignment, insert the key and seat it against the bottom plate. The lock can now be locked and unlocked.

I "practiced" realigning the keyway plates after discovering the problem. I intentionally misaligned the keyway plates with a key, and then realigned them. After a couple minutes of practice, realigning the plates just takes a couple of seconds, IF you have a good light available.

Now I know why I miss my "round key" locks.

alanbikehouston

 

[Lessss]

BAH!! The best lock for an electric bike is a wire running from the + terminal to one end of the frame and a wire running from the negative terminal to the other end ot the frame! Lots of Volts, low on amps.


ZAP! goes the thief.. hehee

Actually I use a motion alarm buried in the bike(large scooter type).

 

[Mathurin]

Well I noticed a slight tingle not long ago while using the wet/salty power plug. Obviously, the controller had grounded the battery's positive to the frame. And here was a path for the power - but really nothing to write home about. Maybe with a camera flash.


As for the Buffalo locks, you slip the wet shirt through the shackle and say place your feet maybe 2 foot lower then the actual lock, and lean on it with all your weight, with and your body stretched out backwards for the leverage, and it'll pop open within seconds. That was a common practical "joke" in highschool.


Also, I don't think threatening to kill them is an appropriate response to kids kicking one's bike to set off the alarm...

 

[Reid Welch]

Also, I don't think threatening to kill them is an appropriate response to kids kicking one's bike to set off the alarm...

Agreed, my civilized Canadian friend.
I don't think that threatening to kill them is an appropriate response either.



:wink:

Please read to understand the humour even better
http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?p=22196#post22196

 

[swbluto]

It's surprising the amount of bikes in my city that solely rely on "cable locks" even though it's well known within bicycle communities(on the internet anyways) that they're easily cut.

I myself have myself prepared with the Kyrptonite 3000 New York lock. Uninsurable upgrades or not, if they're willing to insure that much for expensive New York bikes, I have a feeling it'll protect my relatively inexpensive bike from theft. It's not like I leave it for extended periods of time in the dark(though I may have to soon. Oh, well, I'm debating whether or not I should use my cheap back-up for school(in conjunction with the bus) or use the electric. It's not like I'd need my bike for over a mile, so electric seems like it might be kind of pointless.)