DD 9C 2810 - Cntrl Lyen 18Fet 4115 - Battery 38120HP & CADP

[Tommy L]

Tommy - both I and Kinni420 have the 2810 in 26" wheels, getting pretty similar numbers to what you are reporting. The 2810 is nice at over 70v and awesome at over 90v. We're running 18S LiPo, I've experimented with 24S (100V HOC) and it's been fantastic, 40mph possible to maintain at WOT. I love how the motor can handle peaks over 2Kw and not get hot to the touch.

This is awesome! Mine is warm to the touch, but not sure how hot the coils are getting. I'm thinking of doing the "OIL" cooling method that is
in one of the threads here.

Wondering if I'll purchase the LYEN 18fet 4115 86-132v (will handle up to 150v HOC) and run 40S for 146v HOC. I would like to get 75kph/47mph

Nice to see that you are keeping the wattage under control. I believe this motor will saturate at 3kw.

from 24S 81HOC jumping up to 28S 96HOC 38120HP Headway makes wheelie popping easier....lol

I think that 3Kw peaks on a bicycle is just pushing into the "NOT SAFE" for the weight/geometry of a bicycle although the speed feels comfortable.
So every time I up the voltage, I lower the max amps on my CA to keep my peaks around 2.5 to 3Kw.

If I move up to a HUBZILLA, then I will build a frame with swing arm and high quality triple tree(some call it triple clamp) front suspension fork.

I see your 13wh figures! Nice!

Take care... and enjoy! Grin Grin!
Tommy L sends....

 

[Ypedal]

I run my e-bmx with a 9C ( not a 2810 .. it's faster winding .. 9x7 ? not sure.. ).. on 24S lipo wich is 100v hot off the charger holds 95v for a while dipping into 90v at high loads of 50 amps.. so that's 5kw, she gets kinda hot( measured 55 celcius at end of ride ) .. some guys push WAY more than that into the 9C... the 2810 is a low rpm motor so it will not take high amps once it reaches a certain speed ... you are well within the safety zone at 3kw.

 

[Tommy L]

I run my e-bmx with a 9C ( not a 2810 .. it's faster winding .. 9x7 ? not sure.. ).. on 24S lipo wich is 100v hot off the charger holds 95v for a while dipping into 90v at high loads of 50 amps.. so that's 5kw, she gets kinda hot( measured 55 celcius at end of ride ) .. some guys push WAY more than that into the 9C... the 2810 is a low rpm motor so it will not take high amps once it reaches a certain speed ... you are well within the safety zone at 3kw.

Good evening YPEDAL!
This is great info ..... I've got an invoice from Lyen for a 18fet 4115 so i can run 40s Headway 146v HOC. I'm still learning and hoping that I can hold
between 1.5 to 3kw continuous at the 146v ....holding 124v and dipping to 120v and get into the 75 to 80 km zone for short burst. I've read that going
above 3kw would possibly saturate the coils and just go into heat. I do not want to learn by melting... lol Nice to read her on ES info info info! lol
Some reading is suggesting to stay with the 4110 fets which mean 100v max and to purchase faster winding motor to get my speed. What are your thoughts?
Because I can change my order with Lyen...

I'm very surprised at this Triple Tree(clamp) front fork on this Hooligan bike. This FS bike is stable at 64kph. You've seen my vids... I stick to the country
roads and they are fairly smooth with some small bumps. I keep wanting to build a Emotorcycle but I have a Honda VTX 1800C. So I'm trying to keep light, yet strong and still be smart Burst to 80kph will make this a good commuter for me. All country roads and 11km to work.

Have you tried the HS or HT?

Is that 55C external with a heat sensing laser or internal?

Tommy L sends.... \\m//

 

[jkbrigman]

I run my e-bmx with a 9C ( not a 2810 .. it's faster winding .. 9x7 ? not sure.. ).. on 24S lipo wich is 100v hot off the charger holds 95v for a while dipping into 90v at high loads of 50 amps.. so that's 5kw, she gets kinda hot( measured 55 celcius at end of ride ) .. some guys push WAY more than that into the 9C... the 2810 is a low rpm motor so it will not take high amps once it reaches a certain speed ... you are well within the safety zone at 3kw.

What controller are you able to run at 100v HOC? I've been experimenting with the el-cheapo 6 FET ebikes.ca but I'm afraid to keep it up, afraid I might burn out a 4110....thanks!

 

[hjns]

Your 2wd setup is..... 1 or 2 controllers? not sure if 1 controller is possible?
I'm interested in hearing more. Was it more efficient running two 2810's over one 2810? I believe it would be, if your journey
has many starts and stops.

Tommy L sends...

No, not possible with 1 controller, unless it is a dual controller in one casing.

I ran a 9C 2810 in front and a HT3525 in the rear. It is definitely NOT more efficient to run two motors instead of one. Think >30 Wh/km instead of 22 Wh/km for the same commute with the same driving behaviour. I don't care about individual motor efficiency, unless it is turning out more heat than power.

However, with hills, 2WD screams!! I run now only my HT3525 in the rear, and it gets very hot with the wheather better, higher ambient temps, and 126V 65A input on a 15-20% hill. With the 2WD, neither motor would be more than handwarm.

We are going to move to a more hilly area within the next month, so I may go back to 2WD, temp sensored, with dual Lyen 124115 controllers (30S 126V at 2x 65A or more). We will see.

If you go >3kW, make sure to install a Temp probe on the coils.

 

[Tommy L]

If you go >3kW, make sure to install a Temp probe on the coils.

Is there a good thread for that? Installing a temp probe.
Also, have you Oil Cooled? If so, is there a good thread for the 9C ?

Thank you!

Tommy L sends... \\m//

 

[hjns]

Just to let you know that I added a 10k thermistor ntc onto the windings of my 9C. The motor is still naked, to allow the DP420 and the high temp sealant to dry, and do some testing before closing it again. Once done, I will post in my own thread.

However, it is a real PITA to change the wires (and add two for the thermistor) going through the axle. My original intent was to add 2 wires for the thermistor and upgrade the phase wires. However, once opened, I did not dare remove the heatshrink within the axle from the motor side. I ended up using the same phase wires, and replace the hall wires with 28AWG motor coil wire for 1S motors. 7 of these I could bring next to the phase wires, using another wire as lead. Hopefully, I find my HT easier to mod. As mentioned, more info to follow.

 

[Tommy L]

Changing the Pack from 28S1P to 36S1P. Lyen 18Fet 4115 is here!
Going from 89.6v nom pack to 115.2v nom pack. Hot off the charger just over 1KW

At 80%DOD(737Wh) I should be able to travel at least 28km/18miles. But the higher speeds may change those figures.
I've tapped the pack at 4 points. 3 taps (38.4v nominal each tap) for 36v chargers and 1 tap for full 115.2v nominal pack voltage.
Also, 4S balance taps everywhere....lol.......to keep this pack from getting to far out of whack.
By my calculations, this pack should give 4kw of power with cells holding above 3.0v each.

Tommy L sends.... \\m//

 

[Tommy L]

I got my 18fet 4115 programmed last night and tried it out no load
88.9kph on 115v nom pack. Hoping to hit high 70's kph and looking forward
to having regen! Video to follow!


Tommy L sends..... \\m//

 

[Tommy L]

I'm at 115.2v nom 130v ish off the charger. Lyen's program allows regen voltage 55/110 60/120 and 75/150.
My charge voltage should be around 132v .... time to add 4 or 5s more so I can have regen! oh the things
we learn here on ES ....Happy and Sad moments simultaneously! lol

Just got a new front wheel (old one was not disc ready) and some hydraulic brakes. Yet another learning curve! lol

Any ideas about Regen or am I stuck with putting a pack together in the charge voltage range of the Lyen Program only?

Tommy L sends.... \\m//

 

[Tommy L]

Clamp brakes weren't cutting it! I went out yesterday and picked up a new rim, tire, tube, disc, and hydraulic system.
Juicy 3 with 185mm rotor.

Before/after pics

Now running at 115.2v nom pack.

Got to go change this for 4S more. I didn't know about the software in the Lyen 18Fet 4115
controller. 55/110v 60/120v and 75/150v are the Regen settings. My pack needs
about 132v to charge so the 60/120v setting is too low to feel regen and 75/150v would be
over volts to the pack. If I add 4 or 5 more in series I can adjust the software to the 75/150v regen

I hope it works! Any thoughts on the regen volts? Always something to learn here and it's so difficult
to search and find info at times!

\\m// Tommy L sends..... \\m//

 

[Tommy L]

I really wanted REGEN before this ride. I might reach over 80kph lol.

To accomplish regen to work with Lyen program I had to up my pack voltage to 40S of LiFePO4 (128v nom)
and set Lyen program to 75v (for 150v regen charge 3.75v per cell). High voltage controller with Lyen software
you have to keep in mind that you use half voltages for some settings and certain formulas for other settings.

It's one thing to see 40v show up on a CA and then 95v dc on CA is dangerous DC Voltage.... but when you see this:

And its in a back pack.... and you've had espresso.... heart is pounding! Man.....almost went to ORANGE here..... lol

Grabbing the GO PRO HERO 2 and off for the 132v ride! wooooooooot! Video to follow!

Tommy L sends..... \\m//

 

[Tommy L]

As promised...... here with the GoPro Hero2 Vid!

128 Volt Grinnnnnnnnnnn 8)

70.7kph max

Come for a ride with me....... Tommy L sends.... \\m//

[youtube]JC_JmWNKxC4[/youtube]

 

[Ypedal]

looks like it scoots right along.. !!! 8)

I dont see a massive torque arm on that thing, i highly recommend looking into that sooner than later, even if the dropouts are thick steel...

40s headcase cells in a backpack.. man.. that's HUGE and HEAVY... how hot are the cells after that run ?

 

[Tommy L]

looks like it scoots right along.. !!! 8)

I dont see a massive torque arm on that thing, i highly recommend looking into that sooner than later, even if the dropouts are thick steel...

40s headcase cells in a backpack.. man.. that's HUGE and HEAVY... how hot are the cells after that run ?

I have the Doctor Bass Torque arms, but not installed yet. Big thick tight steel drop outs? Yes! But I should do some extras
Although I've pulled 4kw from the 8ah cell (4C) in brief draws, I keep it down to an average of 2C (2kw) or less. 26lbs of LiFePO4

First thing I noticed was the motor spins up easily to 60kph, then it's probably SATURATED and only watts go up with very little
speed increase. So I would say that the efficiency drops after 55kph and steep drop after 65kph. I've got the CA set to 30amps
and on heavy draw the volts drop down to 120v (so 3.0v per cell) and 124/125volts at 1800watts (3.1) 1.75C.
So the cells didn't get warm. I might be a high volt freak.... lol but I keep the amps down. I always balance between
voltage/amperage and work in WATTS to be kind to the controller/motor. I always base my max draw on "C" rating
I've learned much here on ES As I increase my volts, I drop my amps (except for this test run) I wanted about 4kw on
tap in case the motor needed it to get more rpm's, again.....I believe it hit a wall of Saturation!

Not much use in throwing more than 2-3kw into a 9C2810. It holds a fairly steep incline at 60kph with near 4kw at the high voltage.
wh/km went up by near 35% more vise the 89.6v nom 28S pack.

The 9C2810 is a nice 50-60kph/30-40mph motor running 90v nom 30amp max (again 2-3kw). Seems to have some speed and
efficiency sweet spot. hmmmmmmmm just like the ebike.ca simulator says! lol
And what did this cost me? ........ A whole lot of grin!

Tommy L sends.... \\m//

 

[hjns]

As promised...... here with the GoPro Hero2 Vid!

128 Volt Grinnnnnnnnnnn 8)

70.7kph max

Come for a ride with me....... Tommy L sends.... \\m//

Nice !

I like 128V as well!!!

 

[Tommy L]

Nice ! I like 128V as well!!!

Are you running 128v with a 9C 2810 or your HT3525?




Tommy L sends... \\m//

 

[pwbset]

Not much use in throwing more than 2-3kw into a 9C2810. It holds a fairly steep incline at 60kph with near 4kw at the high voltage.

Your video is encouraging to me that my 2810 will be able to climb the 1,600ft I climb for my commute. I'm only going to be sustaining 2kw-ish through it. We'll see. Just waiting impatiently for my Doc torque arms to arrive. I'm not daring enough to ride without them on my soft aluminum dropouts. I've crashed enough to want to avoid it. 8) Thanks for sharing the video.

 

[Ypedal]

Did i just read that correctly ?.. limiting to 30 amps ?... DUDE..... crank that sucker up !!!.. on roads like you have there it's perfectly safe to run the full 60 + amps !... enough cooling to keep things from melting i'm sure.

 

[Tommy L]

Did i just read that correctly ?.. limiting to 30 amps ?... DUDE..... crank that sucker up !!!.. on roads like you have there it's perfectly safe to run the full 60 + amps !... enough cooling to keep things from melting i'm sure.

I just fell out of my chair reading this! You "Duded" me! lol


Thats 7 or 8 C against my 40s1P pack..... It's not going to like it! lol...... but I should try it!

I just got in 20 4s3p and 20 4s4p motorcycle start batteries. Apparently real A123 Cells B grade. They are green cells
I will take them out of the boxes and make another pack.
I've tested them and they seem to handle 5 -7C constant without too much sag. Or it's just time to go Lipoly!

Tommy L sends.... \\m//

 

[Tommy L]

Not much use in throwing more than 2-3kw into a 9C2810. It holds a fairly steep incline at 60kph with near 4kw at the high voltage.

Your video is encouraging to me that my 2810 will be able to climb the 1,600ft I climb for my commute. I'm only going to be sustaining 2kw-ish through it. We'll see. Just waiting impatiently for my Doc torque arms to arrive. I'm not daring enough to ride without them on my soft aluminum dropouts. I've crashed enough to want to avoid it. 8) Thanks for sharing the video.

I really think the 9C 2810 shines at 95v and 30amp. It pulls pretty good

Tommy L sends..... \\m//

 

[Sacman]

Dooood!!!
Yes it's time to go LiPo!

 

[Sacman]

Definitely get those torque arms installed as soon as you can. Accelerating up to those speeds then hitting the regen puts a lot of reversing torque to wiggle your axle and loosen up the nuts holding your axle to your frame. I'd look into getting those Nordlock washers too if I were you.

How fast are you trying to go with your bike Tommy? ...and why did you chose the slower rpm 9C2810 motor then have to go with higher volt controller/battery combo to get speed? A month ago I got my 9C2810 motor from Methods too but I got it for my off-road DH bike which I intend to be riding at slower speeds and climbing up moderately steep hills. You can be sure I put 2 torque plates right away (one on each end of the axle).

I noticed on your video that your throttle response was twitchy. Did it get more twitchy when you upped the voltage? I'm planning to up my 18s LiPo (66.6v nominal, 75.1v hot off charger) to 24s LiPo (88.8v nominal, 100.2v hot off charger). Throttle response is nice wide and smooth now but wondering if it will get slightly twitchy as well. Maybe in your case the change to the new Lyen controller was what caused the different throttle response.

 

[Tommy L]

Definitely get those torque arms installed as soon as you can. Accelerating up to those speeds then hitting the regen puts a lot of reversing torque to wiggle your axle and loosen up the nuts holding your axle to your frame. I'd look into getting those Nordlock washers too if I were you.

How fast are you trying to go with your bike Tommy? ...and why did you chose the slower rpm 9C2810 motor then have to go with higher volt controller/battery combo to get speed? A month ago I got my 9C2810 motor from Methods too but I got it for my off-road DH bike which I intend to be riding at slower speeds and climbing up moderately steep hills. You can be sure I put 2 torque plates right away (one on each end of the axle).

I noticed on your video that your throttle response was twitchy. Did it get more twitchy when you upped the voltage? I'm planning to up my 18s LiPo (66.6v nominal, 75.1v hot off charger) to 24s LiPo (88.8v nominal, 100.2v hot off charger). Throttle response is nice wide and smooth now but wondering if it will get slightly twitchy as well.

Thanks DUDE for the response! lmao!

Yes I have the Doctor Bass Torque arms, but not installed. Yes, Nordlocks! I would like to try them for sure!
My drops outs are around 0.25" and the axle was real snug But I should still do the Locks/Torque arms.

Yes, I was very easy on the throttle (very slowly turning) . Lyen said that the HV might make it touchy.... and yes it is. I found that at
95v and 30amps on the CA the Methods Throttle was fine. It's nice to have Regen to haul you down from 70kph to 30kph then it's about over.
I also put those Juicy 3 Hydraulics on. This is a good move!

Why the 9C 2810...... First Price was right , 2 experimenting, 3 was planning on HV set up and wanted to keep watts to a minmum and just
go for the RPM and inefficiency

26lbs of LiFePO4 on your back is Awesome! lol

Tommy L sends..... \\m//

 

[hjns]

Are you running 128v with a 9C 2810 or your HT3525?




Tommy L sends... \\m//

I did on both.... Now I am only running the HT at 30S, but within the next month it will be 9C in front and HT on the rear. Both on 30S lipo (126V HOC).