debate on universal access to health care

the quagmire is, in part, all the special interests giving donations to congressmen. that's why dramatic reform of any type, is hopeless.
.
Remember ~ a decade ago promises of a flat tax? or at least a simple tax? well, now the 1040 is over 100 pages, and, doing my best, i still OVERPAID 2 of 3 years. They sent a refund with a letter, something like IF THE IRS IS WRONG SEND THE MONEY BACK. They are asking me to check them? I already got it wrong.
Congressmen pandering to get votes in exchange for loopholes in the tax code. another hopeless quagmire.
 
gogo

Do not waste your time, these guys are living in a dream world. For the life of them, they can not look around and see that everything the Government touches eventually crumbles. We have constant real world examples of how expecting the government to provide for your well being is just not going to happen.

Here in San Diego, the city is in a huge mess financially, the streets are turning to dust, the sewer system leaks constantly, the water system is old and constantly falling apart, the police department is in a mess... But the people that work for the city have huge benefits and pensions, they put their priorities into taking care of themselves over taking care of the people they are supposed to be serving.

Same goes for the state of California, they are bankrupt, tens of billions of dollars in debt, yet they have their guaranteed cushy jobs while the rest of the citizens get their taxes, fees... raised to support them as we lose our jobs.

Yeah that is right, they are all in favor of taking even more of your rights away from you. To them the people that made it to a government position know what is best for you, they know the people of this country are too stupid to provide for themselves. They will not be happy till they force you to drink the lemonade.

Hitler would have been proud of them. Loyal little followers!

Deron.
 
Deron, unterdurchschnittliche-Kind,

It is sad the reason you drop mental feces here is simply to spark an emotional reaction from others.

To that end, the only emotion I can extend to you is my pity.

In a few short words, you have taken this thread to the sewer.

As you struggle towards adulthood, please enjoy the world you create for yourself.

Ciao.
 
Cackalacka,

Didn't you already know that the odds approach 100% for that name to be used in any long debate. This fact predates the internet as we know it today and goes back to list server times.

John
 
Hi,

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/8/27/headlines#9

Study: Health Industry Accounts for Half of Blue Dog Campaign Donations

A new study shows more than half of the $1.1 million in campaign donations given to the group of right-leaning Democrats known as the Blue Dog Coalition came from the pharmaceutical, healthcare and health insurance industries. The Center for Public Integrity says the Blue Dogs received more donations than any other congressional grouping over the same period. On average, the Blue Dogs received over $62,000 more from the health industry than other Democrats. The Blue Dogs have played a key role in the standstill over healthcare reform since voicing objections to a public health insurance option last month.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/08/26/national/a182241D36.DTL&type=politics
After McCain opened it up to questioning, one man angrily pointed at him and asked the senator why he deserves a better health care plan than him.
Definitely hypocritical.

McCain urged them he would fight for health care reform but reiterated his opposition to President Barack Obama's plan to create a government option to compete with private insurers, arguing that it would be the eventual end of private insurers in the U.S.
Ok, I get it now. We're not trying to provide health care for our citizens. We're trying to maintain the highly profitable health insurance industry.
 
Hello John,

I'm well aware of Godwin's law.

Adolescent wingers using the name of humanity's worst conservative to smear their opponents is a fairly new & absurd low. This seems to be a recent trend, kind of like the teabagger that lives two doors down from me who has hung the Stars and Stripes up-side down (sun, rain, or snow) every day since January 20th.

And yes, I'm well aware of movement conservatism's recent efforts to re-write Hitler and his party as 'progressive.' We got a compound word for that: bullshit.
 
Means that person has no valid arguments left. When your opponent is reduced to that level, you know they've got nothing else.
 
hitler was the worlds worse tyrant and lead a modern society into unimaginable depravity. Now only 5 decades later we can trivialize his name compare what little arguments we have to his world. Next we will forget the horror. Then we will repeat it.
 
Hi,

http://www.newsweek.com/id/214254/page/1

The Five Biggest Lies in the Health Care Debate
To the credit of opponents of health-care reform, the lies and exaggerations they're spreading are not made up out of whole cloth—which makes the misinformation that much more credible. Instead, because opponents demand that everyone within earshot (or e-mail range) look, say, "at page 425 of the House bill!," the lies take on a patina of credibility.

Take the claim in one chain e-mail that the government will have electronic access to everyone's bank account, implying that the Feds will rob you blind. The 1,017-page bill passed by the House Ways and Means Committee does call for electronic fund transfers—but from insurers to doctors and other providers. There is zero provision to include patients in any such system. Five other myths that won't die:

You'll have no choice in what health benefits you receive.
The myth that a "health choices commissioner" will decide what benefits you get seems to have originated in a july 19 post at blog.flecksoflife.com, whose homepage features an image of Obama looking like heath ledger's joker. In fact, the house bill sets up a health-care exchange—essentially a list of private insurers and one government plan—where people who do not have health insurance through their employer or some other source (including small businesses) can shop for a plan, much as seniors shop for a drug plan under medicare part d. The government will indeed require that participating plans not refuse people with preexisting conditions and offer at least minimum coverage, just as it does now with employer-provided insurance plans and part d. The requirements will be floors, not ceilings, however, in that the feds will have no say in how generous private insurance can be.

No chemo for older medicare patients.
The threat that medicare will give cancer patients over 70 only end-of-life counseling and not chemotherapy—as a nurse at a hospital told a roomful of chemo patients, including the uncle of a NEWSWEEK reporter—has zero basis in fact. It's just a vicious form of the rationing scare. The house bill does not use the word "ration." Nor does it call for cost-effectiveness research, much less implementation—the idea that "it isn't cost-effective to give a 90-year-old a hip replacement."

The general claim that care will be rationed under health-care reform is less a lie and more of a non-disprovable projection (as is Howard Dean's assertion that health-care reform will not lead to rationing, ever). What we can say is that there is de facto rationing under the current system, by both medicare and private insurance. No plan covers everything, but coverage decisions "are now made in opaque ways by insurance companies," says dr. Donald Berwick of the institute for healthcare improvement.

A related myth is that health-care reform will be financed through $500 billion in medicare cuts. This refers to proposed decreases in medicare increases. That is, spending is on track to reach $803 billion in 2019 from today's $422 billion, and that would be dialed back. Even the $560 billion in reductions (which would be spread over 10 years and come from reducing payments to private medicare advantage plans, reducing annual increases in payments to hospitals and other providers, and improving care so seniors are not readmitted to a hospital) is misleading: the house bill also gives medicare $340 billion more over a decade. The money would pay docs more for office visits, eliminate copays and deductibles for preventive care, and help close the "doughnut hole" in the medicare drug benefit, explains medicare expert Tricia Neuman of the Kaiser Family Foundation.

Illegal immigrants will get free health insurance
The house bill doesn't give anyone free health care (though under a 1986 law illegals who can't pay do get free emergency care now, courtesy of all us premiumpaying customers or of hospitals that have to eat the cost). Will they be eligible for subsidies to buy health insurance? The house bill says that "individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States" will not be allowed to receive subsidies.

The claim that taxpayers will wind up subsidizing health insurance for illegal immigrants has its origins in the defeat of an amendment, offered in July by republican rep. Dean Heller of Nevada, to require those enrolling in a public plan or seeking subsidies to purchase private insurance to have their citizenship verified. Flecksoflife.com claimed on july 19 that "hc [health care] will be provided 2 all non us citizens, illegal or otherwise." Rep. Steve king of Iowa spread the claim in a usa today op-ed on aug. 20, calling the explicit prohibition on such coverage "functionally meaningless" absent mandatory citizenship checks, and it's now gone viral. Can we say that none of the estimated 11.9 million illegal immigrants will ever wangle insurance subsidies through identity fraud, pretending to be a citizen? You can't prove a negative, but experts say that medicare—the closest thing to the proposals in the house bill—has no such problem.

Death panels will decide who lives.
On July 16 Betsy Mccaughey, a former lieutenant governor of New York and darling of the right, said on Fred Thompson's radio show that "on page 425," "congress would make it mandatory … That every five years, people in medicare have a required counseling session that will tell them how to end their life sooner, how to decline nutrition." Sarah Palin coined "death panels" in an Aug. 7 facebook post.

This lie springs from a provision in the house bill to have medicare cover optional counseling on end-of-life care for any senior who requests it. This means that any patient, terminally ill or not, can request a special consultation with his or her physician about ventilators, feeding tubes, and other measures. Thus the house bill expands medicare coverage, but without forcing anyone into end-of-life counseling.

The death-panels claim nevertheless got a new lease on life when Jim Towey, director of the White House office of faith-based initiatives under George W. Bush, claimed in an Aug. 18 Wall Street Journal op-ed that a 1997 workbook from the department of veterans affairs pushes vets to "hurry up and die." In fact, the thrust of the 51-page book, which the va pulled from circulation in 2007, is letting "loved ones" and "health care providers" "know your wishes." Readers are asked to decide what they believe, including that "life is sacred and has meaning, no matter what its quality," and that "my life should be prolonged as long as it can...using any means possible." But the workbook also asks if readers "believe there are some situations in which I would not want treatments to keep me alive." Opponents of health-care reform have selectively cited this passage as evidence the government wants to kill the old and the sick.

The government will set doctors' wages.
This, too, seems to have originated on the Flecksoflife blog on July 19. But while page 127 of the House bill says that physicians who choose to accept patients in the public insurance plan would receive 5 percent more than Medicare pays for a given service, doctors can refuse to accept such patients, and, even if they participate in a public plan, they are not salaried employees of it any more than your doctor today is an employee of, say, Aetna. "Nobody is saying we want the doctors working for the government; that's completely false," says Amitabh Chandra, professor of public policy at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government.

To be sure, there are also honest and principled objections to health-care reform. Some oppose a requirement that everyone have health insurance as an erosion of individual liberty. That's a debatable position, but an honest one. And many are simply scared out of their wits about what health-care reform will mean for them. But when fear and loathing hijack the brain, anything becomes believable—even that health-care reform is unconstitutional. To disprove that, check the commerce clause: Article I, Section 8.
 
Nice one Mitch. 8) I've been avoiding this thread since I figured it would be another fruitless debate with whoever is this years Safe.

Personally I think universal health care is doomed again, this time by the economy. Obama has two years max to get it done, before the next election changes the balance of votes. I'll be real happy though, to see some better govt controll over how badly the health insurance industry can screw it's customers. Don't even try to get a plan to cover you for your entire recovery from an illness. You better get well on schedule the way it is now. If we can get banks to stop screwing thier customers so bad and health insurance to stop screwing their customers so bad in one 4 year cycle I'll call that progress. The real change I'd like to see, I'll be happy if it just happens in my lifetime, 20 more years? Less maybe if health care stays messed up. I have health insurance now, but no illusions about it being a good plan that won't cut me off if I try to actually use it.
 
What I have to say here may not advance the discussion any but I think it is worth noting just the same.

I grew up as a military brat. I had FREE health care my entire adolescent life. Everything from a case of the measles to problems with my hearing were completely covered by the miltary health care for dependents. Then, as a teenager, I joind the Army. While on active duty I was hurt several times with broken bones, torn up knee and even a severe foot injury - which still gives me some problems to this day. I also got treatment for a bad case of acne and was prescribed some very expensive Retin-A pills. All my treatment and medical care was absolutely free, including the time I was sent to a civilian clinic for treatment for a knee injury.

I ask, rhetorically, why is it that almost no one would question the appropriateness of free medical care for the military and their families but yet many would never, ever want to extend that same quality of care to a fellow citizen? I was not in combat. I wasn't contributing to GDP. I wasn't fighting the forces of tyranny when I got hurt and yet I was entitled to health care paid for by my fellow Americans. It wasn't, perhaps, the best care but it was effective and I am grateful for it. Are we really that antagonistic to each other that we would leave one another to fend for ourselves when it comes to potentially life threatening situations (or just some)? Fire department, police department, national defense...check. Health department...ehh, not so much?

There MUST be a way to provide basic health care system for all if not most of us. I don't think we are talking about government doctors and bureaucrats making decisions for us. I haven't seen anything that would leave me to believe that Obama is asking for that.

It is entirely prudent to ask how it will be paid for, who will be covered by it (and who won't) and what will be its practical limits? A new system will not be without risks. Maybe a government run program would be screwed up but a free press (and right wing conservatives) will be all to willing to point out its failings (Walter Reed comes to mind). But we have to try to get MORE people health care. It doesn't have to bet the best, just good enough.
 
mclovin said:
Are we really that antagonistic to each other that we would leave one another to fend for ourselves when it comes to potentially life threatening situations (or just some)? Fire department, police department, national defense...check. Health department...ehh, not so much?

Assuming the purpose of government is to protect the individual rights of each citizen from transgression by other people, how would government involvement in health care do that?

What is happening is that we have allowed politicians to tax us for, and have control of things, other than protection of our rights and then dole out the booty for votes.

If you are arguing that we have already perverted the legitimate role of government by using it to provide non-essential services (i.e. other than the protection of rights), and that more government involvement in health care is just more of the same, you are correct. The interesting question at that that point becomes, "what service should not be provided by the government?"

Again, I put forth the argument that our current HC system is plagued by government interference. It administers medicare and medicaid inefficiently and myriad regulations and laws prevent the free market from efficiently providing the rest.

Government interference is the problem, a different kind of government interference might be better, but won't be as good as the removal of it.
 
gogo said:
Assuming the purpose of government is to protect the individual rights of each citizen from transgression by other people, how would government involvement in health care do that?

What is happening is that we have allowed politicians to tax us for, and have control of things, other than protection of our rights and then dole out the booty for votes.

If you are arguing that we have already perverted the legitimate role of government by using it to provide non-essential services (i.e. other than the protection of rights), and that more government involvement in health care is just more of the same, you are correct. The interesting question at that that point becomes, "what service should not be provided by the government?"

Again, I put forth the argument that our current HC system is plagued by government interference. It administers medicare and medicaid inefficiently and myriad regulations and laws prevent the free market from efficiently providing the rest.

Government interference is the problem, a different kind of government interference might be better, but won't be as good as the removal of it.

You make your assumptions and I'll make mine. My assumption is that government's purpose is to ensure its own survival. To that end, in a democratic system, we, the people can force upon the government our requirements for its survival. One of those requirements is to adhere to the tenents of the US Constitution. In the preamble of the Constitution there is a statement about "promote the general Wealfare". I think the link between health care and general welfare is pretty well established. I'm not so naive to think that democracy always works but since we are talking somewhat about ideals I'll go with that.

"Perverted" is your term, not mine. I'm arguing that we as a society find it perfectly acceptable, under certain cirsumstances, for government to provide health care to a certain group of citizens. While maybe not everyone can get access to "free" health care we should all have access to health care that is at least adequate.

I think that you have a legitimate question about what list of services government should not be in. I would say that health care is not among the list.

The only thing I can see government interfering in is corporate profits. Maybe I was spoiled by my experiences growing up but hey. That's where I'm at. Government health care worked just fine for me. I'd like to have it again.
 
if you want to provide food,
say, bread, rice, and chicken, to prevent starving, it has a fixed cost, rather small imo.
Health care, or rather sick care has no limit.
Myself, i'm in favor of a well defined list of sickness eligible for free treatment.
But, nobody else is, once they find out their sickness is NOT covered.
 
The larger the pool of insured people, the less expensive the insurance premium. The richest country in the world surly can provide some form of affordable health care for all it's citizens.
 
chet said:
The larger the pool of insured people, the less expensive the insurance premium. The richest country in the world surly can provide some form of affordable health care for all it's citizens.
"The larger the pool of insured people, the less expensive the insurance premium."
True, but this USA is not a fully "socialized medicine" country and we don't pay anymore, about half of our earned income into the Federal Tax Jabba the Hutt system, as all of you Euro-Mr.-Beans, do.


"The richest country in the world surly can provide some form of affordable health care for all it's citizens."


Yes, this is indeed a surly country. Surly makes good bikes, too, don't 'cha know? And WE are no longer the richest country in the world,
not by a long shot. We are running on past-old-Glory, fumes. China and the UAE are richer; so are many other countries.

I only found out about one and half years ago, that I qualify for FREE cradle to grave full coverage health care!
I did not know this before I went to the VA hospital here to see if I could get some sort of help for my health problems.
"Mr. Welch, you enlisted into the USNR in 1972? Well! Good news! YOU are one of the very few who fall into a limited category
of vets who qualify for OUR full treatment, even hospice housing, if it came to that; even free housing, if you were mentally/physically
incapacitated. FREE prescription drugs and, right to join our "team" and be a "team" member with our MD corps."

Uh...I think I will be my own MD for as long as possible. USN never told me that I had this free med. care.
Tens of thousands of my dollars were wasted, years ago, fruitlessly buying near-useless private health care plans that pay...about nothing,
and then they cancel your policy. I needed back surgery, no choice: about 10 grand out of pocket, twenty years ago for that.
The V.A. hospital system, unknown to me at that time, would have done the work (poorly, for sure) for FREE.

I will go and get "inducted" into their system, but just so I'm "ready" in case a bus or a cop car runs over my leg.
I will not go to them for a routine test where they poke a snake up your bung and look for cancers and the such.
Why not?

Here's Why Not!

Socialized Medicine has its ins and OUTs.

Sincerely, grandson of a great MD, son of a Navy medic, and scared only of errant MDs,

Reid
 
I think it would be a good idea to have two systems, one for health care, that's free. (well, paid for by taxes) It would give you your immunizations, help with diets, physical threapy for anything injured, minor surgery like setting a broken bone, getting some stiches. It would cover about 75% of what we go to a walk in clinic or ER for. The other system would be death care, or sick care, and you'd pay out the nose to be cured of cancer, have a heart bypass etc. One side would be efficient and cheap, being aimed at preventative medicine and treatment for cost predictable conditions that might remove you from the work force like back injury, broken bones, etc.

The other side would be expensive as hell, and the rich could buy into it if they wanted. The poor would be likely to be healthier, and cost less over thier lifetimes. Covering everybody for everything is a bit much, but that is no reason to set up a system that prevents the poor from getting care that lowers the cost of the whole life health care costs. The govt should regulate this side strictly, so if you did pay the outrageous premiums, you'd actually get the care you paid for.

This way everybody, rich or poor would be able to see a doctor about anything bothering them and get treatment for stuff like injuries, poor digestion, help losing weight, normal illness like colds, flu, asthma, allergies, diabetes, STD's, prenatal care and childbirth, etc.

The only things you'd need to insure for would be the real biggies, that kill most of us, cancer, heart attack, and more exotic illness like neurological disorders, that get real expensive, or other too expensive things like long term care if you are in a car wreck and live on in a coma for years.
 
Amen

foot powder (a usa brand)

FOR SURE, there is no "fix", nothing that can help everybody without hurting a lot.
Many MDs nowadays refuse to take on Social Security elders' needs, for the Gov. does not pay but nominal wages to them,
and the PAPERWORK is a killer. So, if you are "rich" and over sixty five here, you damn well go to GOOD doctor and pay that piper.

For the poor? It's either the V.A. hospital for a very few lucky veterans, like myself,
or the indigents' hospital: Jackson Memorial, where...oh, don't go there if you can help it, Miamians!

There is emergency, decent care, for the poor, but it is nominal. Need this or that? They'll treat you for free,
but your results may vary wildly from what they -mean- to do for you, and what you get.

Eddie James was told by his S.S. surgeon: It's a carcinoma of your lung. Lobectomy

SURGEONS SURGE.

Eddie might have lived for months, or even years, with mere, palliative treatment.

Instead, he died two days, post-op, when his remaining lung instantly, without warn, collapsed.
A rare form of rigor mortis; there's a technical name for it: when a person dies suddenly in extremis,
gripping a gun OR A NURSE CALL BUTTON, their dead hand, literally, cannot be pried from that last-gasp
cry for help. The SURGEON killed Eddie James, aged sixty six, NOT the lung cancer.

Same thing happened to my dad, but he died slower, of the surgical intervention; he lingered in post-op agony,
never improving, and suffered hell for nine months. The last days were hastened by yet another SURGEON judgment call:
"Let us do a bronchoscopy and see what's in there now?" Dad assented, and duly hemmoraged, and died two days later.

KEEP AWAY from doctors, unless you get many, many opinions from various DISINTERESTED MDs, and then...make YOUR choice.
You are gonna die, anyway. Die on your own terms, sez I. Don't die like Eddie, nor like Judge Welch, who...did not know how to judge;
that was only his nick-

name.

His son,
Reid, crying again!
 
Matt Gruber said:
if you want to provide food,
say, bread, rice, and chicken, to prevent starving, it has a fixed cost, rather small imo.
Health care, or rather sick care has no limit.
Myself, i'm in favor of a well defined list of sickness eligible for free treatment.
But, nobody else is, once they find out their sickness is NOT covered.

I don't understand what you mean by health care having no limit. I suppose you mean that once we go down the "road" a bit then health care costs will spiral and we (the government) will not be able to get a handle on then and we will be bankrupt ...or something like that.

I have insurance now and I don't go around asking for health stuff just willy nilly. Sure, I have a co-pay thing but that is not what limits me. "I" limit my health care demands. If I don't need care then I don't go to the doctor. It's pretty simple. I think many people (if not you) have the view that people without health care are somehow the dregs of society who will bring the rest of us down. I think this is a misguided view. I myself had a period of time where I had no insurance and I'm far from non-productive. Many educated, skilled, thoughtful people have full time jobs and just can't afford insurance. It's a travesty when we will give health care to a federal inmate and not to, oh, say, a college student or an auto mechanic or a barrista in a coffee shop.

Health care is also preventative care: cholesterol screening, prostate exams, mammograms etc. It's better to see a doctor before you get sick.

Sure, some people are hell bent on killing themselves. I don't know what can be done for them. Maybe at a certain point they need to be excluded from the "system." As for me, I will not be the one who decides who dies and who gets help. That is beyond my capacity.
 
There seems to be no limit when somebody else is paying.
Clot?
$1000 for clot buster drug.
or 2 aspirin!
.
No limit to innovation. For enough money there is always something touted as "better".
.
$400 for mucus recovery system.
What is it?
a box of tissues!
 
Matt Gruber said:
There seems to be no limit when somebody else is paying.
Clot?
$1000 for clot buster drug.
or 2 aspirin!
.
No limit to innovation. For enough money there is always something touted as "better".
.
$400 for mucus recovery system.
What is it?
a box of tissues!
Amen, Matt.

SEVEN HUNDRED DOLLARS, they, "Baptist Hospital" tried to charge Mrs. Green, whose doggie bit my face seven years ago.
SEVEN HUNDRED DOLLARs, for a "let's be sure" tetanus booster shot, that cost all of about five bucks, to them. The thieves...
She was willing to pay out of pocket. Nice Jewish lady, generous and caring to a fault. I declined the shot and said "we don't support thieves, do we?"
I did not get any infection at all, and saved her the seven bills. The wonder is, she did everything right after the accident, hired the finest plastic surgeon to
reconstruct my face...he charged only $2,700 for about 1.5 hours of work, having to CANCEL his other patients' less-pressing appointments.
Baptists, my asp...Jesus should weep.

More Jolly News of our USA's "great" medical practices:

California's Real Death Panels: Insurers Deny 21% of Claims
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUS202570+02-Sep-2009+PRN20090902
PacifiCare's Denials 40%, Cigna's 33% in First Half of 2009

{partial quote of the article...r.w.}

OAKLAND, Calif., Sept. 2 /PRNewswire/ -- More than one of every five requests
for medical claims for insured patients, even when recommended by a patient's
physician, are rejected by California's largest private insurers, amounting to
very real death panels in practice daily in the nation's biggest state,
according to data released today by the California Nurses Association/National
Nurses Organizing Committee.

CNA/NNOC researchers analyzed data reported by the insurers to the California
Department of Managed Care. From 2002 through June 30, 2009, the six largest
insurers operating in California rejected 31.2 million claims for care - 21
percent of all claims.

The data will be presented by Don DeMoro, director of CNA/NNOC's research arm,
the Institute for Health and Socio-Economic Policy, at CNA/NNOC's biennial
convention next Tuesday, Sept. 8 in San Francisco. The convention will also
feature a panel presentation from nurse leaders in Canada, Great Britain, and
Australia exploding the myths about their national healthcare systems.

"With all the dishonest claims made by some politicians about alleged 'death
panels' in proposed national legislation, the reality for patients today is a
daily, cold-hearted rejection of desperately needed medical care by the
nation's biggest and wealthiest insurance companies simply because they don't
want to pay for it," said Deborah Burger, RN, CNA/NNOC co-president.

For the first half of 2009, as the national debate over healthcare reform was
escalating, the rejection rates are even more striking.

PacifiCare denied 40 percent of all California claims in the first six months
of 2009. Cigna, which gained notoriety two years ago for denying a liver
transplant to 17-year-old Nataline Sarkisyan of Northridge, Calif. and then
reversing itself, tragically too late to save her life, was still rejecting
one-third of all claims for the first half of 2009.

"Every claim that is denied represents a real patient enduring pain and
suffering. Every denial has real, sometimes fatal consequences," said Burger.
:|
 
I agree with you that the current system is pretty screwed up.....that is what you are describing, right? The rip-offs under the CURRENT system?
 
Sorry about the spell check, Reid. That doesn't invalidate my point. The larger the insured base (the more people insured) the lower the insurance premiums.
 
mclovin said:
I agree with you that the current system is pretty screwed up.....that is what you are describing, right? The rip-offs under the CURRENT system?
100 years from now people will need about the same food to keep from starving. A fixed cost, compared to sick care:
in 100 years they will call the current health care PRIMATIVE and obsolete.
People will pay an enormous sum for life extention. And everyone will want it, and all will like someone else to pay for it.
 
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