Dewey Beats Truman

Hark! What's that I hear?

Oh, it's just the sound of one pot cracking.

Chalo
 
Well, we got some things really frocked up here. And they have other things really frocked up elsewhere. I'm pretty tired though, of the division over abortion causing a rift that prevents any deals being made on other important stuff. Nobody dares to vote across the party line anymore.

It really is operating as dysfunctional as it did in the 1850's.
 
Too pregnant to pass up…

Some facts:

Once upon a time, the Democrats and the Republicans were of the same party. :shock:

The Democratic-Republicans were founded in 1791. The United States at that time was considered “Liberal”, and this party was no less, especially when compared to the rest of the world. The distinctions within the party coalesced between 1824 and 1832 over the power of the President verses the Legislature, or more to the point:

  • The power to create and manage welfare of the people by the people verses that which desires the return of elitism and/or monarchy to Government.
Republicans, as they began to call themselves during this time, absorbed factions of the defunct Federalist Party (Hamiltonians). After 1832, the divisions were solidified into the newly renamed Democrats and Whigs. Immigrants and farmers and common folk identified with Democrats whilst the Whigs recruited the well-to-do. In either case, both are liberal down to the marrow in ideology on the concept of Freedom which was completely foreign to reigning kingdoms dotting the world at this time. Understand that the only other world Democracy was France, and it had been perverted by the Napoleonic Wars, followed by periods of restorations to monarchy.

It’s important to comprehend the significance of Whigs: They were expansionists, and believed in balance in government, and national unity. Democrats on the other hand were for social, economic and moral modernization. We can read the differences clearly as subordination of the masses towards profit through private enterprise, and a National Bank to control the flow of commerce as a Whig priority. Conversely, Democrats believed in equality and opportunity with Freedom, and protection from exploitation.

The threat to Union came from within as the country approached the eve of the Civil War, and the issues that destroyed the Whig Party centered upon divisions within over Slavery. The modern Republican Party cleaved from the Whigs in 1854 and aligned itself against Slavery, becoming the 2nd oldest party in the United States… after the Democrats. To be fair, Republicans to this very day adhere to the essential Whig plank of pro-business, expansive, heavy industry, free-trade, powerful banking, with strong foreign policy (read: enforcement). The facts with regards to the Republicans is not a question of whether they are conservative because certainly some thrift must be involved to attain these goals, it is instead about conquest and hegemony. At the time of Reagan, Laissez-faire became a national objective, and it was thought to be achieved through popular adoption by offering tax incentives for the middle classes and by lowering taxes for the rich. This is the beginning of the end of relatively modest deficits (excluding times of war post-WWI).

The modern Democratic Party is today an amalgamation of social causes, popular activism, and policies of plurality, and includes Progressives, “Liberals”, and Libertarians (whether they like it or not). They have been called the party of radicals ever since Andrew Jackson killed the Second Bank of the United States. In reference to the Republican Party, Democrats promote “social liberalism” as opposed to “classic liberalism”, though some cut to the chase and simply call it Liberals verses Conservatives which is entirely inaccurate. Democrats are in many ways the diametric polar opposite of the Republicans within a narrowly defined spectrum, long favoring farmers, laborers, labor unions, and religious and ethnic minorities, in addition to being against unregulated business, for affirmative action, for progressive taxation, and for common welfare. In the first half of the last century “conservative” elements within the party better resembled their Republican counterparts with fiscal responsibility and pro-business ideology; however this gave way after the election of FDR and with it the rise of socialism.

Both parties will claim to want a balanced budget and a strong defense; however the truth of the matter is that both parties are guilty of being subverted by the Military Industrial Complex (MIC) which is in itself another form of government-sponsored employment. In truth, neither party desires unemployment which is in itself bad for re-election: Following the example of FDR, our government spends loosely to purchase future profit at the expense of our children and their children… There is no accountability; they are both culpable. There was for once a brief glimmer, an open opportunity during Clinton’s Administration with a Republican-led House to have a balanced-budget and a plan to bail us out in 10 or so years; this idea though was jettisoned after 9/11.

There is no question world-wide that the previous Republican Administration adversely harmed American credibility with a phony war. Both parties are guilty of providing carte blanche and open coffers to overt corruption and profiteering beneficing the stakeholders of Halliburton et al. In description, I like the word “pillage”; it’s a little easier on the ears than calling it “bald-faced rape” of American’s fortune.

Through the intervening eight years in office, the Republicans take the House and systematically remove certain checks and balances of regulation to banking and finance and market oversight and mortgage brokerages… under the banner of “let free market reign” – and setting up the big plunder and meltdown just in time for the next sitting president; tank the economy so bad that with a good dose of obstructionism, no matter who was elected (albeit Hillary or Barack) come four years and the garlic & onions scented Republicans will be smelling sweet as rose again.

I don’t buy any of this horse. I don’t support a party with an agenda of obstruction (however both are guilty). I don’t support the nanny-like Democrats that tell me I must have insurance when I’m quite capable of paying my own way. I think that the National Health Care legislation was the wrong thing to focus on at this time when there are other pressing issues; however the blame is not 100% to Obama as much as it was a short-sighted Democratic politicking maneuver hammer-fisted up our arse by Pelosi & tribe.

Our Government has become so entwined with the MIC, Insurance corruption, Social Security insolvency and entitlements, investment fraud, and service to the National Debt when we’re not subsidizing farmers, giving away foreign aid to corrupt leaders, or otherwise lubricating the public for another porking Deliverance-style. Both of these parties have been around for at least 150 years, and they are both responsible for the misguided small-minded prosecution of privateering. Every now and then we have brilliant leadership, but for the most part, and especially following 9/11 – Government in this United States has been appalling. Citizens’ rights have been reduced. Corporations have been allowed to offshore. Our futures are diminished. And I would sack the lot.

Then comes reform. If my words aren’t banned by now, I have a plan for moving forward.

Ever so slightly motivated to improve the condition beyond passive, KF
PS - I have zero interest in attacking indivuals on this forum; it's a waste of time and I'd rather pound dirt. I will however offer opinion that is my own.
 
Understand that the only other world Democracy was France, and it had been perverted by the Napoleonic Wars, followed by periods of restorations to monarchy.
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Not quite. Our monarchy finally handed over the last vestiges of authority to govern to an elected parliament following the Bill of Rights in 1689, but the monarchy here had been in the gradual process of being usurped by Parliament for several hundred years before that, including a short period between 1642 and 1660 when we had no monarch (parliament executed Charles 1 in 1649) and were ruled by Parliament.

Certainly the French Revolution stirred up strong anti-monarchy feelings around Europe, but England had been a parliamentary Democracy since 1689 and the United Kingdom had been a Parliamentary Democracy since its formation with the Act of Union in 1707. If anything, the French were playing catch-up when it comes to democratic government, as their Revolution didn't really start until the storming of the Bastille in 1789, a century after the English monarch had handed ruling power to parliament.

The first British settlers in what is now the US were from groups that were actively reacting to the death throws of our ruling monarchy, the attempted return to Catholicism by James II in England and James VII in Scotland. These people were strong Protestants, with views about democracy and parliament that had been shaped by the English Civil War in the mid-1600's. I strongly suspect that their Puritan beliefs shaped the way that the US made that bold step to be ruled by the people and for the people.
 
Calvinists and Quakers. Yes, that was a prime mover of the time. So much social disorder back then. Don’t forget the last battle fought in Britain: Culloden 1746. :cry:

British Rule is unique and interesting on the world stage. I did not wish to suggest that it was a Democracy in the same sentence as the United States given the fact that war was twice fought over the land therein, which began as colonial taxation without representation, and as such – not a true democracy at the time in reference (1791). The seeds of democracy though are rightly inherited from British influence and are directly traceable back to King John & the Magna Carta, 1215 AD. Indeed, the system of Government in the US is derived most directly from the British style of Lords and Commons -> Senate and House, with exception to wigs and historical peculiars. Frankly, I rather like and appreciate kingdoms… when they operate effectively and fairly well. :)

Friend & admirer of the U.K.
~KF
 
Culloden was interesting, in that it illustrates some of the tensions between parliament and monarchy that continued after the Act of Union, or more specifically the tensions between the new Protestant parliament and the old suppressed catholic monarchy in exile in France.

Years ago I was reminded of just how the Quakers, in particular, had shaped the early days of the American settlements. I used to regularly stay at Old Jordans, a Quaker guest house just outside Beaconsfield, Buckinghamshire, England (which, incidentally was the home of William Penn, founder of Pennsylvania). The place dated back to the late 1600's and was full of artefacts from the early American settlements, including agreements the settlers drew up with the natives, letters written back home from people who had made this great adventure and, perhaps, the most interesting item of all, the Meeting House next door with it's roof timbers made from some of the beams taken from the Mayflower. The place, and the people that ran it, just filled me with the aims and aspirations of those early settlers, who were idealistically seeking to create a new society, free from the strictures of church or monarchy.

It's just a great shame that the US has, in recent years, chosen to throw away the core ideals first expressed in the Declaration of Independence, and then made governing principles in the Constitution. Like many in the rest of the world, I wholeheartedly admire the concept for democratic governance that the American founding fathers managed to put together.
 
Kingfish said:
Calvinists and Quakers. Yes, that was a prime mover of the time. So much social disorder back then. Don’t forget the last battle fought in Britain: Culloden 1746. :cry:

/quote]

Are you calling the RAF vs Luftwaffe in WWII a friendly match? :D
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salty9 said:
Kingfish said:
Calvinists and Quakers. Yes, that was a prime mover of the time. So much social disorder back then. Don’t forget the last battle fought in Britain: Culloden 1746. :cry:
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Are you calling the RAF vs Luftwaffe in WWII a friendly match? :D
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Those two entities didn’t exist in 1791, when the Democrat-Republican Party came into existence. :wink:

I also wanted to add that Continental Europe was also going through similar social unrest with the fracturing of the Holy Roman Empire, the rise of Prussia and rivalry with Austro-Hungary, German Mediatisation …and then there’s France. European Aristocracy hell-bent on conquest with serfs as cannon fodder.

When you read about the early history of the United States, it is a wonder that we exist at all because we came so very close to losing the Revolution, and then nearly failing as a country between 1776 and 1787 when the leaders finally settled on a Constitution. Two really interesting biographies to read are that of John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, 2nd and 3rd Presidents - both whom died within hours of each other on the 50th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence.

Cherish freedom paid for in blood and sacrifice.
~KF
 
If you follow today's right wing in American politics all the way back to the 1700s, you'll see it alligned with the monarchy.

They didn't want independence, they stubbornly held on to slavery, and to this day do not like the idea of an educated and empowered public.

Most of our nation's problems come from the Southeast quadrant, which is what held up the Constitution, caused the Civil War, and brought us Dubya and his way of thinking.

I've lived almost half my life in the South. I like it, but if you're looking for rational, educated debate then this is the last place you'll find it. The notion of "Don't confuse me with the facts" is pretty standard.

I'm not trying to totally discredit this part of the country, but if you want to know the truth then you should know that it is the least educated and least tolerant part of the country. I believe it's been holding this nation back this whole time.

That's not to say the rest of the nation is perfect, but at least they are willing to listen to opposing points of view.

My wife and I recently went to Belize. There were shacks on stilts with kids in rags playing in the mud. It was third world, and my wife and I were a bit embarrassed because we see people who live that way all over the Southeast.

The American Civil War started the day they began writing the Constitution, and that war continues to this day.

Think of the Nazis and how they destroyed their own country. Now imagine if, over a hundred years later, they still had most counties, towns, streets and more named after the famous Nazi leaders. But here in the South those Confederates who betrayed the nation are honored and celebrated. And after that blacks were mercilously persecuted. Do you have any idea how many blacks were lynched in the Southeast between the 1870s and the 1970s? Over five thousand.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_in_the_United_States#section_5

The Confederates never wanted compromise and they started secession before Lincoln was even sworn in. The guy didn't have a chance.

The Tea Party rallies started the same month Obama was sworn in. The guy never had a chance. My only hope is that if he's reelected he'll be as uncompromising in the second half as they were in the first. Obama compromised on everything.

If I were him I would simply vero every dang spending bill that went through until I saw eveey tail tucked and every Congressman humbled.

It was always about the Loyalists vs. the Patriots, and so it is today.


A solution: A constitutional amendment banning political parties from participation in government.
 
Veto it all.. Ring a bell? That's pure Jackson there. Another fine pillar of the south. We had a Jacksoninan running NM at one point. The pseudo republican Gary Johnson, who was running in the fringe this time. What a joke his years were. Not saying he should have signed some of the dogshit they sent to his desk. Just saying once they know it will ALL get vetoed, they all just pass even more reeking bills next month, then pat each other on the back and campaign on that record of votes they knew would never count. Lots of real progress gets made that way. :roll:

Frocked as it is, it still beats living under a Hitler, a Mussolini, a Quadaffi, A Saudi king, etc.
 
Hey, Andrew Jackson wasn't perfect, but he did kill the national bank (at least for a while). Wasn't too kind to the Indians, however.

Wait, were you referring to Michael Jackson? ;)
 
Perhaps we could use another Jackson to straighten out the banks. Different problem then, money was real then. I was refering to the effectiveness of his presidency after he did that. Johnson was similar, virtually nothing happened except his vetos the entire term.
 
dogman said:
Perhaps we could use another Jackson to straighten out the banks. Different problem then, money was real then. I was refering to the effectiveness of his presidency after he did that. Johnson was similar, virtually nothing happened except his vetos the entire term.
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Do you mean Andrew or Lyndon Baines? :)

Sorry... just seeking a tiny bit of clarity, KF
 
Johnson was refering to my earlier comment about Gary Johnson, former governator of my state. He's the guy running for president right now on the herb party ticket of the republical party. ???? Close to a party of one, him and some republican rastas, however many of those exist. :roll:

LBJ knew how to get er done. He'd squeeze your nuts till you voted for his great society. Knew your girlfreind well, like with pictures.
 
Philistine said:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=41659

You guys in America just don't get it. I doubt you will until you live in societies like Canada and Australia.
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I like your story. A charismatic person I enjoy listening to is Governor Chris Christie of New Jersey; a pragmatic no-BS politician who’d give any reigning administration a run for their money. I’d like to see him run for President in the next round; don’t care if he’s aligned with republicans; he talks like a spendthrift centrist.

[youtube]ghTOOoRbsSk[/youtube]

Dogman, I never would have guessed ~ but that is a dang good answer! :wink:

LBJ was The Man of his day, a savior to Texas afaiac and right up there with those that defended The Alamo.

Hook'm Horns! KF
 
MikeFairbanks said:
If you follow today's right wing in American politics all the way back to the 1700s, you'll see it alligned with the monarchy.

They didn't want independence, they stubbornly held on to slavery, and to this day do not like the idea of an educated and empowered public.

Most of our nation's problems come from the Southeast quadrant, which is what held up the Constitution, caused the Civil War, and brought us Dubya and his way of thinking.

I've lived almost half my life in the South. I like it, but if you're looking for rational, educated debate then this is the last place you'll find it. The notion of "Don't confuse me with the facts" is pretty standard.

I'm not trying to totally discredit this part of the country, but if you want to know the truth then you should know that it is the least educated and least tolerant part of the country. I believe it's been holding this nation back this whole time.

That's not to say the rest of the nation is perfect, but at least they are willing to listen to opposing points of view.

My wife and I recently went to Belize. There were shacks on stilts with kids in rags playing in the mud. It was third world, and my wife and I were a bit embarrassed because we see people who live that way all over the Southeast.

The American Civil War started the day they began writing the Constitution, and that war continues to this day.

Think of the Nazis and how they destroyed their own country. Now imagine if, over a hundred years later, they still had most counties, towns, streets and more named after the famous Nazi leaders. But here in the South those Confederates who betrayed the nation are honored and celebrated. And after that blacks were mercilously persecuted. Do you have any idea how many blacks were lynched in the Southeast between the 1870s and the 1970s? Over five thousand.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_in_the_United_States#section_5

The Confederates never wanted compromise and they started secession before Lincoln was even sworn in. The guy didn't have a chance.

The Tea Party rallies started the same month Obama was sworn in. The guy never had a chance. My only hope is that if he's reelected he'll be as uncompromising in the second half as they were in the first. Obama compromised on everything.

If I were him I would simply vero every dang spending bill that went through until I saw eveey tail tucked and every Congressman humbled.

It was always about the Loyalists vs. the Patriots, and so it is today.


A solution: A constitutional amendment banning political parties from participation in government.
Click to expand...


Mike,

I read this shortly after you posted it and found it to be just about the most vile disgusting thing I've ever read.

I've been thinking of an appropriate response with out having to say anything too harsh that would convey how I feel about what you wrote.

Here it is.

If you ever have the chance to visit the south east quadrant of the USA, I sincerely hope you take the opportunity to share these ideas of yours with as much of the local citizenry as possible. :wink:

Have a good day.
 
Dear Red States:

We're ticked off at the way you've treated California and we've decided we're leaving.

We intend to form our own country and we're taking the other Blue States with us.

In case you aren't aware that includes Hawaii, Oregon, Washington, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois and all the Northeast.

We believe this split will be beneficial to the nation and especially to the people of the new country of New California.

To sum up briefly:

You get Texas, Oklahoma and all the slave states.

We get stem cell research and the best beaches.

We get Elliot Spitzer. You get Ken Lay.

We get the Statue of Liberty. You get OpryLand.

We get Intel and Microsoft. You get WorldCom.

We get Harvard. You get Ole' Miss.

We get 85 percent of America's venture capital and entrepreneurs. You get Alabama.

We get two-thirds of the tax revenue. You get to make the red states pay their fair share.

Since our aggregate divorce rate is 22 percent lower than the Christian Coalition's we get a bunch of happy families. You get a bunch of single moms.

Please be aware that Nuevo California will be pro choice and anti war and we're going to want all our citizens back from Iraq at once. If you need people to fight ask your evangelicals. They have kids they're apparently willing to send to their deaths for no purpose and they don't care if you don't show pictures of their children's caskets coming home.

We wish you success in Iraq and hope that the WMDs turn up but we're not willing to spend our resources in Bush's Quagmire.

With the Blue States in hand we will have firm control of 80% of the country's fresh water, more than 90% of the pineapple and lettuce, 92% of the nation's fresh fruit, 95% of America's quality wines (you can serve French wines at state dinners) 90% of all cheese, 90 percent of the high tech industry, most of the US low sulfur coal, all living redwoods, sequoias and condors, all the Ivy and Seven Sister schools plus Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Cal Tech and MIT.

With the Red States you will have to cope with 88% of all obese Americans and their projected health care costs, 92% of all US mosquitoes, nearly 100% of the tornadoes, 90% of the hurricanes, 99% of all Southern Baptists, virtually 100% of all televangelists, Rush Limbaugh, Bob Jones University, Clemson and the University of Georgia.

We get Hollywood and Yosemite, thank you.

38% of those in the Red states believe Jonah was actually swallowed by a whale, 62% believe life is sacred unless we're discussing the death penalty or gun laws, 44% say that evolution is only a theory, 53% that Saddam was involved in 9/11 and 61% of you crazy bastards believe you are people with higher morals then we lefties.

We're taking the good pot too. You can have that dirt weed they grow in Mexico.

Sincerely,
Author Unknown in New California.



Edited for formatting
 
Five myths about why the South seceded

By James W. Loewen, Published: February 26, 2011
The Washinton Post

One hundred fifty years after the Civil War began, we’re still fighting it — or at least fighting over its history. I’ve polled thousands of high school history teachers and spoken about the war to audiences across the country, and there is little agreement even about why the South seceded. Was it over slavery? States’ rights? Tariffs and taxes?

As the nation begins to commemorate the anniversaries of the war’s various battles — from Fort Sumter to Appomattox — let’s first dispense with some of the more prevalent myths about why it all began.


Myth 1. The South seceded over states’ rights.

Confederate states did claim the right to secede, but no state claimed to be seceding for that right. In fact, Confederates opposed states’ rights — that is, the right of Northern states not to support slavery.

On Dec. 24, 1860, delegates at South Carolina’s secession convention adopted a “Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union.” It noted “an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery” and protested that Northern states had failed to “fulfill their constitutional obligations” by interfering with the return of fugitive slaves to bondage. Slavery, not states’ rights, birthed the Civil War.

South Carolina was further upset that New York no longer allowed “slavery transit.” In the past, if Charleston gentry wanted to spend August in the Hamptons, they could bring their cook along. No longer — and South Carolina’s delegates were outraged. In addition, they objected that New England states let black men vote and tolerated abolitionist societies. According to South Carolina, states should not have the right to let their citizens assemble and speak freely when what they said threatened slavery.

Other seceding states echoed South Carolina. “Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery — the greatest material interest of the world,” proclaimed Mississippi in its own secession declaration, passed Jan. 9, 1861. “Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of the commerce of the earth. . . . A blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization.”

The South’s opposition to states’ rights is not surprising. Until the Civil War, Southern presidents and lawmakers had dominated the federal government. The people in power in Washington always oppose states’ rights. Doing so preserves their own.


Myth 2. Secession was about tariffs and taxes.

During the nadir of post-civil-war race relations — the terrible years after 1890 when town after town across the North became all-white “sundown towns” and state after state across the South prevented African Americans from voting — “anything but slavery” explanations of the Civil War gained traction. To this day Confederate sympathizers successfully float this false claim, along with their preferred name for the conflict: the War Between the States. At the infamous Secession Ball in South Carolina, hosted in December by the Sons of Confederate Veterans, “the main reasons for secession were portrayed as high tariffs and Northern states using Southern tax money to build their own infrastructure,” The Washington Post reported.


Myth 3. Most white Southerners didn’t own slaves, so they wouldn’t secede for slavery.

Indeed, most white Southern families had no slaves. Less than half of white Mississippi households owned one or more slaves, for example, and that proportion was smaller still in whiter states such as Virginia and Tennessee. It is also true that, in areas with few slaves, most white Southerners did not support secession. West Virginia seceded from Virginia to stay with the Union, and Confederate troops had to occupy parts of eastern Tennessee and northern Alabama to hold them in line.

However, two ideological factors caused most Southern whites, including those who were not slave-owners, to defend slavery. First, Americans are wondrous optimists, looking to the upper class and expecting to join it someday. In 1860, many subsistence farmers aspired to become large slave-owners. So poor white Southerners supported slavery then, just as many low-income people support the extension of George W. Bush’s tax cuts for the wealthy now.

Second and more important, belief in white supremacy provided a rationale for slavery. As the French political theorist Montesquieu observed wryly in 1748: “It is impossible for us to suppose these creatures [enslaved Africans] to be men; because allowing them to be men, a suspicion would follow that we ourselves are not Christians.” Given this belief, most white Southerners — and many Northerners, too — could not envision life in black-majority states such as South Carolina and Mississippi unless blacks were in chains. Georgia Supreme Court Justice Henry Benning, trying to persuade the Virginia Legislature to leave the Union, predicted race war if slavery was not protected. “The consequence will be that our men will be all exterminated or expelled to wander as vagabonds over a hostile earth, and as for our women, their fate will be too horrible to contemplate even in fancy.” Thus, secession would maintain not only slavery but the prevailing ideology of white supremacy as well.


Myth 4. Abraham Lincoln went to war to end slavery.

Since the Civil War did end slavery, many Americans think abolition was the Union’s goal. But the North initially went to war to hold the nation together. Abolition came later.

On Aug. 22, 1862, President Lincoln wrote a letter to the New York Tribune that included the following passage: “If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that. What I do about slavery and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union.”

However, Lincoln’s own anti-slavery sentiment was widely known at the time. In the same letter, he went on: “I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men every where could be free.” A month later, Lincoln combined official duty and private wish in his preliminary Emancipation Proclamation.

White Northerners’ fear of freed slaves moving north then caused Republicans to lose the Midwest in the congressional elections of November 1862.

Gradually, as Union soldiers found help from black civilians in the South and black recruits impressed white units with their bravery, many soldiers — and those they wrote home to — became abolitionists. By 1864, when Maryland voted to end slavery, soldiers’ and sailors’ votes made the difference.


Myth 5. The South couldn’t have made it long as a slave society.

Slavery was hardly on its last legs in 1860. That year, the South produced almost 75 percent of all U.S. exports. Slaves were worth more than all the manufacturing companies and railroads in the nation. No elite class in history has ever given up such an immense interest voluntarily. Moreover, Confederates eyed territorial expansion into Mexico and Cuba. Short of war, who would have stopped them — or forced them to abandon slavery?

To claim that slavery would have ended of its own accord by the mid-20th century is impossible to disprove but difficult to accept. In 1860, slavery was growing more entrenched in the South. Unpaid labor makes for big profits, and the Southern elite was growing ever richer. Freeing slaves was becoming more and more difficult for their owners, as was the position of free blacks in the United States, North as well as South. For the foreseeable future, slavery looked secure. Perhaps a civil war was required to end it.

As we commemorate the sesquicentennial of that war, let us take pride this time — as we did not during the centennial — that secession on slavery’s behalf failed.

Sociologist James W. Loewen is the author of “Lies My Teacher Told Me” and co-editor, with Edward Sebesta, of “The Confederate and Neo-Confederate Reader.”
 
Dear Red States:

We're ticked off at the way you've treated California and we've decided we're leaving.

We intend to form our own country and we're taking the other Blue States with us.

In case you aren't aware that includes Hawaii, Oregon, Washington, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois and all the Northeast.

We believe this split will be beneficial to the nation and especially to the people of the new country of New California.

To sum up briefly:

You get Texas, Oklahoma and all the slave states.

We get stem cell research and the best beaches.

We get Elliot Spitzer. You get Ken Lay.

We get the Statue of Liberty. You get OpryLand.

We get Intel and Microsoft. You get WorldCom.

We get Harvard. You get Ole' Miss.

We get 85 percent of America's venture capital and entrepreneurs. You get Alabama.

We get two-thirds of the tax revenue. You get to make the red states pay their fair share.

Since our aggregate divorce rate is 22 percent lower than the Christian Coalition's we get a bunch of happy families. You get a bunch of single moms.

Please be aware that Nuevo California will be pro choice and anti war and we're going to want all our citizens back from Iraq at once. If you need people to fight ask your evangelicals. They have kids they're apparently willing to send to their deaths for no purpose and they don't care if you don't show pictures of their children's caskets coming home.

We wish you success in Iraq and hope that the WMDs turn up but we're not willing to spend our resources in Bush's Quagmire.

With the Blue States in hand we will have firm control of 80% of the country's fresh water, more than 90% of the pineapple and lettuce, 92% of the nation's fresh fruit, 95% of America's quality wines (you can serve French wines at state dinners) 90% of all cheese, 90 percent of the high tech industry, most of the US low sulfur coal, all living redwoods, sequoias and condors, all the Ivy and Seven Sister schools plus Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Cal Tech and MIT.

With the Red States you will have to cope with 88% of all obese Americans and their projected health care costs, 92% of all US mosquitoes, nearly 100% of the tornadoes, 90% of the hurricanes, 99% of all Southern Baptists, virtually 100% of all televangelists, Rush Limbaugh, Bob Jones University, Clemson and the University of Georgia.

We get Hollywood and Yosemite, thank you.

38% of those in the Red states believe Jonah was actually swallowed by a whale, 62% believe life is sacred unless we're discussing the death penalty or gun laws, 44% say that evolution is only a theory, 53% that Saddam was involved in 9/11 and 61% of you crazy bastards believe you are people with higher morals then we lefties.

We're taking the good pot too. You can have that dirt weed they grow in Mexico.

Sincerely,
Author Unknown in New California.
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:lol: :lol: :lol:
 
TylerDurden said:
Dear Red States:

We're ticked off at the way you've treated California and we've decided we're leaving.

We intend to form our own country and we're taking the other Blue States with us.

In case you aren't aware that includes Hawaii, Oregon, Washington, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois and all the Northeast.

We believe this split will be beneficial to the nation and especially to the people of the new country of New California.

To sum up briefly:

You get Texas, Oklahoma and all the slave states.

We get stem cell research and the best beaches.

We get Elliot Spitzer. You get Ken Lay.

We get the Statue of Liberty. You get OpryLand.

We get Intel and Microsoft. You get WorldCom.

We get Harvard. You get Ole' Miss.

We get 85 percent of America's venture capital and entrepreneurs. You get Alabama.

We get two-thirds of the tax revenue. You get to make the red states pay their fair share.

Since our aggregate divorce rate is 22 percent lower than the Christian Coalition's we get a bunch of happy families. You get a bunch of single moms.

Please be aware that Nuevo California will be pro choice and anti war and we're going to want all our citizens back from Iraq at once. If you need people to fight ask your evangelicals. They have kids they're apparently willing to send to their deaths for no purpose and they don't care if you don't show pictures of their children's caskets coming home.

We wish you success in Iraq and hope that the WMDs turn up but we're not willing to spend our resources in Bush's Quagmire.

With the Blue States in hand we will have firm control of 80% of the country's fresh water, more than 90% of the pineapple and lettuce, 92% of the nation's fresh fruit, 95% of America's quality wines (you can serve French wines at state dinners) 90% of all cheese, 90 percent of the high tech industry, most of the US low sulfur coal, all living redwoods, sequoias and condors, all the Ivy and Seven Sister schools plus Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Cal Tech and MIT.

With the Red States you will have to cope with 88% of all obese Americans and their projected health care costs, 92% of all US mosquitoes, nearly 100% of the tornadoes, 90% of the hurricanes, 99% of all Southern Baptists, virtually 100% of all televangelists, Rush Limbaugh, Bob Jones University, Clemson and the University of Georgia.

We get Hollywood and Yosemite, thank you.

38% of those in the Red states believe Jonah was actually swallowed by a whale, 62% believe life is sacred unless we're discussing the death penalty or gun laws, 44% say that evolution is only a theory, 53% that Saddam was involved in 9/11 and 61% of you crazy bastards believe you are people with higher morals then we lefties.

We're taking the good pot too. You can have that dirt weed they grow in Mexico.

Sincerely,
Author Unknown in New California.



Edited for formatting
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And most southerners would say, "Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out!"

Dear Blue States:

Imagine our relief that you've decided to secede and form some sort of bathing-optional commune headquartered in California. The money we'll save in aspirin, now that we won't have headaches from listening to your interminable whining, will be worth it to us alone.

We'll finally be rid of you lazy, moping, latte-sucking Streisand fans now that you're actually going to follow through--for once--on your promise to finally get off your butts and leave, as so many of you claimed you would every election cycle and then chickened out of actually doing. (Yeah, we're looking at you, Alec Baldwin.)

But not so fast. You don't get to take all the Blue States with you--just the Blue parts.

You see, your Blue States aren't actually "blue." Mostly, they're states full of Red counties with pockets of Blue urban blight in them, who vote Democratic in such numbers that if the same results came out of a Third World country which, come to think of it, many of the "Blue" counties pretty much are--we'd think it was fraud and send election observers from the UN. Even California is pretty much a Red State: Bush won 35 out of 58 counties, while Kerry won LA and San Francisco. You want 'em? We won't fight you for them, that's for sure, but you're going to have to found New California without 35 of your most beautiful counties and your second-largest city. Sorry about that.

Nationally, Bush won over 2.5 million square miles of U.S. counties (and an extra three and a half million votes, but we won't rub that in.) Kerry won less than 600,000 square miles--meaning that in most states he was popular downtown and pretty much nowhere else. In other words, your guy won the places that people like him would get shot if he walked through them at night. Our guy won every place else.

So, the bottom lines is that you don't get the Blue States. Those states have lots of towns and counties that would rather blow their dams and flood themselves out of existence rather than go with you. No, instead, you get the Blue Cities.

But we really feel we owe you full disclosure on this exchange. This might come as an unpleasant surprise, but you don't actually get the lower divorce and single-motherhood rates and all that other good stuff you think you're going to snag. Those are the conditions that are actually found out in the Red counties, pardner, not in the Blue cities, and you can't have them.

Instead you get the urban single moms, not the soccer moms; the drug addicts, not the doctors; the waiters, not the chefs. You get the fine service you've come to expect from the brutal and corrupt inner-city police departments. You get the abysmal literacy rates and schools that are more dangerous than most prisons. All in all, you get to take with you a public sector in most cities so unmanageable they make Mogadishu seem like a tidily run little municipality by comparison. You get the labor union shakedown artists, "teachers" who can't pass tests in their own subject, and city government leaders for whom graft, racial spoils systems, and outright theft are a way of life. They're all very enthusiastic Blue voters, as you know, and we're sure they'll stampede their way to New California to start draining your wallets, wrecking your schools, and in general making a mess of your lives. (And don't come complaining back to us when socialist central planning does for New California what it did for garden spots like East Berlin and Pyongyang. We're putting a strict visa system into place once you all go.)

We, on the other hand, get those Red city suburbs and rural districts. You know, the ones with the good schools, the high property values, the quiet streets and the sheriffs and cops who don't need to walk around armored up like they're about to storm the Sunni Triangle.

And don't even think about keeping the National Parks, the wide open spaces, all those water resources, and all the rest of America's natural splendor, since those are all pretty much located in Red counties. Hell, we even get most of Oregon and Washington ...ain't it ironic? You get the urban liberals in Portland and Seattle and their friends in important social organizations (like, say, drug-running street gangs) and we get the rest of the Northwest. Ok by us; we'd be fools not to take you up on it.

So here's how it works. All of you Blue whiners, please feel free to look at a map of the electoral results county by county in each state, and take the people with you who've made it clear they'd like to go.

That means you get places like downtown Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, and we get to keep the rest of beautiful Pennsylvania, thank you. You get to administer bloated public services to the violent, drug-addled, gunslinging populations of delightful inner-city sinkholes of poverty and corruption such as Miami, St. Louis, and the ever-popular District of Columbia--which has been governed by liberals (and the occasional crackhead) for so long and so incompetently that any semblance of order has broken down (beyond the carefully guarded borders of your Georgetown bistros, natch) to the point where even the mayor once asked the President to have the city patrolled by National Guardsmen. Lucky you, it's all yours--enjoy it in good health, and don't forget to wear your Kevlar...Blue "voters" up there in Northeast DC tend to be jumpy on the ol' trigger finger.

In fact, all around our great nation, you get to keep all the Blue voters who've made urban war zones like downtown Detroit--a Blue bastion, of course--the proud showplaces they are today. We get the rest of Blue states like Michigan and Wisconsin and Illinois and...well, frankly, just about every state in the Union with the exception of Hawaii and New England--and even there, we'll just hang on to a couple of chunks of New Hampshire and Connecticut. (You're especially more than welcome to Rhode Island, which will immediately set up some sort of money-laundering scheme and bilk the rest of you once it has been incorporated into whatever sort of muddle-headed utopia you're trying to create. The former mayor of Providence should be out of Federal prison in time to join your Politburo and help you get things set up--for a small consulting fee, of course.) We'll miss the Hawaiian beaches, but since long stretches of coastline from New Jersey down to Florida and yes, even in Southern California (including San Diego, thanks) are actually in Red counties, we'll be fine.

Sure, we get the rednecks and holy rollers. But since you're apparently willing to trade them for the gangs and psychopaths terrorizing your Blue cities, what can we say? You want the Crips and the Bloods in low riders raking your streets with automatic gunfire, and you're offering us Bubba heading off to church in his pickup? Hey, a deal's a deal. Done.

True, you also get Manhattan, but darn the luck, you have to take the rest of the city, including the Bronx, Queens, and Brooklyn too, as well as Long Island, which is enough to almost make us feel sorry for you all out there in New California. (Almost.) For our part, we'll take most of the rest of gorgeous New York State, although you get the scam artists who infest the legislature in Albany. And since for some unfathomable reason you actually want Elliot Spitzer, we'll buy his plane ticket as a gesture of goodwill.

So that's the deal. You get the cities, with all the crime, crack mommies, and corruption you can stand. And sure, you get many of the elite colleges too, with the professors who think that terrorists in Fallujah are freedom fighters and that the people who worked in the Twin Towers on 9/11 were no better than Nazis.

We get the suburbs, the countryside, and all the other beautiful places that remain unspoiled by liberal hypocrisy and addle-brained social experimentation.

And we'd like a favor, too: please keep your sky-high tax and crime rates, since we're happy to have the corporations and jobs that continue to flee your Blue cities into our Red counties. Much appreciated, since our unemployment rates, to say nothing of our crime, single-parenting, and illiteracy rates, are far lower than yours.

Oh, and one last thing. We get the U.S. military, too. Did we mention that part? (You may have forgotten that they're volunteers, and most are happy Red state voters.) Not to worry, though, since we're sure that Islamic fundamentalist terrorists will be more than happy to reach an accommodation with a society that embraces radical feminism, gay marriage, gun control, hostility to organized religion of any kind, and Salman Rushdie. Good luck with that. But one day when some misogynist Saudi freak--who no doubt will sneak into your country by strolling over over the northern border after a few years sucking on the Canadian welfare system you all admire so much--blows up a couple kilos of plutonium on Sunset Boulevard, go send Sean Penn to ask the French for help. We'll be busy that day.

Sincerely,

Jimmy in the United States of America

PS: You can keep the marijuana. You're going to need it, since selling it is one of the last stable industries left in Blue counties.
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Dear Blue States: A Reply From the Red States

Oct 29 2008 Published by Turk under Miscellany

Despite being three years old, the “Dear Red States” Craigslist posting from 2005 is suddenly circulating again. I guess it must be election season that has revived this. But I figured I’d take a quick shot at a response.

Dear Red States… We’ve decided we’re leaving. We intend to form our own country, and we’re taking the other Blue States with us.

Hot Damn. Thanks. You’re like people who have stayed long after the rest of the party goers have gone home. We’ve been hoping you’d finally leave, but we’re too polite to simply throw you out.

In case you aren’t aware, that includes Hawaii, Oregon, Washington, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois and all the Northeast. We believe this split will be beneficial to the nation, and especially to the people of the new country of New California.

To sum up briefly: You get Texas, Oklahoma and all the slave states. We get stem cell research and the best beaches.

Well, actually, Minnesota, Michigan, Wisconsin and Washington are typically considered “swing states”, but you can have them. Congratulations. You got two states too cold to live in, a failing automotive industry, and Washington.

As for the beaches, we got the entire gulf coast and the Atlantic up to North Carolina. You got the rocky coast of the northwest and the Jersey Shore (whose tourism board just recently announced their new slogan “Guidos in Speedos”). Again. Congrats.

We get the Statue of Liberty. You get Dollywood. We get Intel and Microsoft. You get WorldCom. We get Harvard. You get Ole’ Miss. We get 85 percent of America ‘s venture capital and entrepreneurs.

I don’t mean to quibble with your argument, but Bank of America is the nation’s largest and one of the few solvent banks. It’s located in North Carolina. We’ll take that.

I also suspect that most of the corporate CEOs that built that wealth will move in with us since better than 75% of them vote Republican.

You get Alabama. We get two-thirds of the tax revenue; you get to make the red states pay their fair share.

You can have the tax revenue. We’ll give the other 1/3 back to the people since they know how to spend it better than your army of bureaucrats.

Since our aggregate divorce rate is 22 percent lower than the Christian Coalition’s, we get a bunch of happy families. You get a bunch of single moms.

Please be aware that Nuevo California will be pro-choice and anti-war, and we’re going to want all our citizens back from Iraq at once. If you need people to fight, ask your evangelicals. They have kids they’re apparently willing to send to their deaths for no purpose, and they don’t care if you don’t show pictures of their children’s caskets coming home. We do wish you success in Iraq, and hope that the WMDs turn up, but we’re not willing to spend our resources in Bush’s Quagmire

Since our troops will be coming home in a year under President Bush’s plan anyway, that’s fine with us.

You’re also likely impose strict gun control while we a) have a tendency to support regime change b) have a lot of guns. In addition, since most of America’s nuclear arsenal sits in silos in the red states, if we ever decide we want New California back… Well, let’s just say, “Sleep tight!”

With the Blue States in hand, we will have firm control of 80% of the country’s fresh water, more than 90 % of the pineapple and lettuce, 92 % of the nation’s fresh fruit, 95 %of America’s quality wines (you can serve French wines at state dinners) 90% of all cheese, 90% of the high tech industry, most of the U.S. low-sulfur coal, all living redwoods, sequoias and condors, all the Ivy and Seven Sister schools, plus Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Cal Tech and MIT.

You got me there. Let’s just hope that all the Asian students who are attending those schools will let you mow their lawns when they graduate.

While I will miss the pineapple, I think I speak for my red state family when I say we’re ok giving up the wine and stinky cheese. After all, we still have all the Jack Daniels from Tennesee, all the Coors and Budweiser beer products from Colorado and Missouri, most of America’s steak, and all the cigars we can roll with that North Carolina tobacco.

You also seem to forget that a) we will get most of America’s total acreage. We get America’s strategic oil reserve, we get all the oil in Texas and Alaska. With a much smaller population, we’ll have enough energy to last generations. If we run short, we have no problem drilling off the coast of New California since we know we won’t run into you there. Even if we do, like I said, we have all the guns.

That is a shame about the condors. I hear they’re good eatin’.

With the Red States, on the other hand, you will have to cope with 88 % of all obese Americans (and their projected health care costs), 92% of all U.S. mosquitoes, nearly 100 percent of the tornadoes, 90% of the hurricanes, 99% of all Southern Baptists, virtually 100% of all televangelists, Rush Limbaugh, Bob Jones University, Clemson and the University of Georgia.

I can live with that.

We get Hollywood and Yosemite, thank you. Additionally, 38 % of those in the Red states believe Jonah was actually swallowed by a whale, 62% believe life is sacred unless we’re discussing the death penalty or gun laws, 44% say that evolution is only a theory, 53% that Saddam was involved in 9/11, and 61% of you crazy bastards believe you are people with higher morals then we lefties.

By the way, we’re taking the good pot, too. You can have that dirt weed they grow in Mexico .

Peace out,
Blue States

Ugh! You get Hollywood? Bummer. You’ve just taken on a huge sector of the economy that creates little of actual value, yet gets paid better than most CEOs. But we’re willing to accept that since you have agreed to permanently dispose of Paris Hilton, Rosie O’Donnell, and Britney Spears. Thanks for taking care of that for us.

In closing, let me simply say thank you again. I think this arrangement will work out beautifully.
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Here we go again. Looks like a happier ending this time, though. Does this mean people get back their better health plans that cost less? Can Bill Von and his hoarde use this to finally troll rumme to death? Can Ellery Queen solve these mysteries and more?

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/14/politics/texas-aca-lawsuit/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/11/politics/short-term-health-insurance-obamacare/index.html

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