DH dual motor = LR mid drive + Grin all-axle front hub
- Thread starter John Bozi
- Start date
John Bozi
100 kW
Hey Drew,
had some off road downtime, while I've been getting the bike tougher....
Had a flawless ride it was epic for us, the video unfortunately cut out and missed some of the best terrain. Still I had a bit to work with to put this one together.
[youtube]gTBXDRgnOOM[/youtube]
had some off road downtime, while I've been getting the bike tougher....
Had a flawless ride it was epic for us, the video unfortunately cut out and missed some of the best terrain. Still I had a bit to work with to put this one together.
[youtube]gTBXDRgnOOM[/youtube]
IanM
100 W
Nice vid John, how's the front hub motor going? Do you use it to assist when climbing or just to cruise? Are you happy you got it?
John Bozi
100 kW
Hey Ian,
cheers
I have spent a long time riding with it now and it adds a lot of dimensions that are hard to quantify.
I do not regret buying it. I have had what I suspected hall fail twice both times I was thinking I regret buying it lol because I wouldn't look forward to the despoke and respoke in particular. First time wires were loose, second time stock anderson housing melted.
Running it by itself it really belongs on bitumen, if it's flat terrain off road smooth dirt would be fine but doing all the work alone really would not satisfy me.
The fun part starts as 2wd.
I have mid drive geared to run at 50-60kmh now and that means it bogs down on hills. In the 30-60kmh range the front motor brings it up to speed really fast doubling the traction and well I must be pulling 6kw both wheels combined so yeah she accelerates fast. The phase runner controls the torque perfectly only giving you about 1.5kw which is what is usable at the 0-20kmh so there is hardly and skidding if I distribute my weight on the bike. It quickly increases how much power the closer I get to 60-70kmh so yeah she will cruise at that speed on flat alone even for about 10 minutes and then overheat.
My typical scenario off road like in the video is.
1. Use mid drive for everything. When its a straight and can go fast add front motor power. If bogging add front motor for power.
2, If there are people around or I care about noise only use front motor.
3. If there is a tricky bit I;m scared of too much torque of the rear motor. Only use front motor since its really weak in the torque alone.
I generally don't use it on sharper slower corners.
And here is my favourite thing that I have only recently felt like my technique.
I have a 3 way switch for my mid drive and most the time I use mid drive full twist because anywhere else its jerky as hell with the torque.
I select my speed based on what I am expecting. Hold it full twist. Then as I am riding and I want modulation in speed I use the front motor in little bursts usually full twist too as I said the torque is really well controlled by the phase runner.
My left hand is not that skilled I feel to do more than that. It just holds full twist on the mid and my right hand adds the precision.
HOpe that helps feel like I just rambled
There are so many types of riding it's hard to say it would be great for everyone. I don't do jumps or drops of much more than 30cm in my riding style before and now so the front motor doesnt bother me at all. Some would say why have so much suspension then? My answer is that I hit some quick change humps, valleys, ruts, roots and ditches pretty hard and thats when it probably saves the rest of the bike and my back.
Just trying to say I have ridden with just mid drive guys on single track who love the DH style of riding and this front motor sucks at it. My choice of terrain is very different, I prefer firetrails and cruising at higher speeds on dirt roads with humps and challenging steep terrain.
I got to stop typing lol
cheers
I have spent a long time riding with it now and it adds a lot of dimensions that are hard to quantify.
I do not regret buying it. I have had what I suspected hall fail twice both times I was thinking I regret buying it lol because I wouldn't look forward to the despoke and respoke in particular. First time wires were loose, second time stock anderson housing melted.
Running it by itself it really belongs on bitumen, if it's flat terrain off road smooth dirt would be fine but doing all the work alone really would not satisfy me.
The fun part starts as 2wd.
I have mid drive geared to run at 50-60kmh now and that means it bogs down on hills. In the 30-60kmh range the front motor brings it up to speed really fast doubling the traction and well I must be pulling 6kw both wheels combined so yeah she accelerates fast. The phase runner controls the torque perfectly only giving you about 1.5kw which is what is usable at the 0-20kmh so there is hardly and skidding if I distribute my weight on the bike. It quickly increases how much power the closer I get to 60-70kmh so yeah she will cruise at that speed on flat alone even for about 10 minutes and then overheat.
My typical scenario off road like in the video is.
1. Use mid drive for everything. When its a straight and can go fast add front motor power. If bogging add front motor for power.
2, If there are people around or I care about noise only use front motor.
3. If there is a tricky bit I;m scared of too much torque of the rear motor. Only use front motor since its really weak in the torque alone.
I generally don't use it on sharper slower corners.
And here is my favourite thing that I have only recently felt like my technique.
I have a 3 way switch for my mid drive and most the time I use mid drive full twist because anywhere else its jerky as hell with the torque.
I select my speed based on what I am expecting. Hold it full twist. Then as I am riding and I want modulation in speed I use the front motor in little bursts usually full twist too as I said the torque is really well controlled by the phase runner.
My left hand is not that skilled I feel to do more than that. It just holds full twist on the mid and my right hand adds the precision.
HOpe that helps feel like I just rambled
There are so many types of riding it's hard to say it would be great for everyone. I don't do jumps or drops of much more than 30cm in my riding style before and now so the front motor doesnt bother me at all. Some would say why have so much suspension then? My answer is that I hit some quick change humps, valleys, ruts, roots and ditches pretty hard and thats when it probably saves the rest of the bike and my back.
Just trying to say I have ridden with just mid drive guys on single track who love the DH style of riding and this front motor sucks at it. My choice of terrain is very different, I prefer firetrails and cruising at higher speeds on dirt roads with humps and challenging steep terrain.
I got to stop typing lol
IanM
100 W
Thanks for the feedback John I was asking because I am thinking of building a 2wd fat bike and wanted to get an idea of how useful it would be to have the front wheel driving to get up steep hills and sand dunes. The grin motor seems like a good choice for use on suspension forks with the axle choices and torque arm setup. My idea so far is to use a Mac 12t wide axle on the rear and a smaller geared motor up front. I would start with a cheapo fatty rigid frame and if it turns out ok then think about a dual suspension setup.
From your comments I can see you find the 2wd useful for your type of riding, seems like it really adds a new dimension to off road riding and fun factor. Makes me keen to give it a try. Cheers.
From your comments I can see you find the 2wd useful for your type of riding, seems like it really adds a new dimension to off road riding and fun factor. Makes me keen to give it a try. Cheers.
John Bozi
100 kW
I'd be more worried about the mac and bumps over time, don't know much about sand dunes and salt content and geared motors. Worth a go if you can afford it!
I had to try riding on a beach once in my life and it was great but it was enough because I reckon eventually that salt is going to eat in......
I looked in fat bikes a while back and was gob smacked at the tyre prices. And they are foldable tyres meaning they must wear and puncture easy. Yet it would defo go nice on sand.
Let us know how you go
I had to try riding on a beach once in my life and it was great but it was enough because I reckon eventually that salt is going to eat in......
I looked in fat bikes a while back and was gob smacked at the tyre prices. And they are foldable tyres meaning they must wear and puncture easy. Yet it would defo go nice on sand.
Let us know how you go
John Bozi
100 kW
All has been working well for many hard rides now. Nice!!!
Am wondering about loctite on my chainring nuts though, even my axle loosened up on this last ride.... it was a rough one.
[youtube]3ndhihkYOIM[/youtube]
I've got to stop using this chest cam - it shakes too much....
Am wondering about loctite on my chainring nuts though, even my axle loosened up on this last ride.... it was a rough one.
[youtube]3ndhihkYOIM[/youtube]
I've got to stop using this chest cam - it shakes too much....
briangv99
1 kW
Hey John, good to see you've sorted most of the reliability issues with the LR big block. Too bad the frame isn't holding up as well. Maybe time to transfer the LR over and other parts over to a new frame. A Quilbix Q76R might be a good mid drive candidate.
The Cyclones your vid looked to cope well with the steep going. What's your thoughts on the cyclone kitted bikes?
The Cyclones your vid looked to cope well with the steep going. What's your thoughts on the cyclone kitted bikes?
John Bozi
100 kW
what I just posted on facebook:
I pulled apart the swingarm fully intending to take to the welder today to reinforce that area (should cost about $100) but looking at the angle of the top area of the swingarm and with my poor eye sight notice something looking like micro cracking.... its a heart wrenching direction... so much work put in specific to one frame yet the frame looks like its going to keep flexing and snap in future. I guess to get the extra area fixed would add up to near a few hundred, an amount toward a solid frame made for a hub motor and be done with this shit.....
I reckon the bike could hold up a year of riding still but anything could happen and snapping at high speeds is scary and I want to live and avoid a year off in hospital.
The cyclones won't do my extreme terrain still. But what was in the video showed they can hold up in slower decent terrain. Their benefits are they are nearer power levels you can sustain with the bike and are lighter with less spaghetti drive train than the big block.
Honestly, you are right mate, I was already considering the thin raptor frames last year. However, I am not sure I would want to continue on this power ripping down one side thing anymore.
Fine if you want modest power around bafang levels, but over that I have done my fair share in repairs, which I guess took more time working on than actually riding so the big block in my opinion is a terrible solution for those who enjoy riding instead of fixing and typing about it.
Broke the frame again, probably due to twisting power.
I pulled apart the swingarm fully intending to take to the welder today to reinforce that area (should cost about $100) but looking at the angle of the top area of the swingarm and with my poor eye sight notice something looking like micro cracking.... its a heart wrenching direction... so much work put in specific to one frame yet the frame looks like its going to keep flexing and snap in future. I guess to get the extra area fixed would add up to near a few hundred, an amount toward a solid frame made for a hub motor and be done with this shit.....
I reckon the bike could hold up a year of riding still but anything could happen and snapping at high speeds is scary and I want to live and avoid a year off in hospital.
The cyclones won't do my extreme terrain still. But what was in the video showed they can hold up in slower decent terrain. Their benefits are they are nearer power levels you can sustain with the bike and are lighter with less spaghetti drive train than the big block.
Honestly, you are right mate, I was already considering the thin raptor frames last year. However, I am not sure I would want to continue on this power ripping down one side thing anymore.
Fine if you want modest power around bafang levels, but over that I have done my fair share in repairs, which I guess took more time working on than actually riding so the big block in my opinion is a terrible solution for those who enjoy riding instead of fixing and typing about it.
Broke the frame again, probably due to twisting power.
briangv99
1 kW
yeah I know what you mean about constantly fixing things instead of just going out riding.
With Sketch's hubsinks and a QS205 or a MXUS in a 17" rim I reckon you'd be right even in your super steep local trails.
It'd be interesting to weld on to a Raptor swingarm a mount use the big block and 219 chain and sprockets direct drive to the left hand side of the back wheel. Should end up with something that's almost reliable as a hubby with the torque you're getting from the big block at the moment. PS - I've seen LRs version of this but not keen on the idea of bolt on brackets.
With Sketch's hubsinks and a QS205 or a MXUS in a 17" rim I reckon you'd be right even in your super steep local trails.
It'd be interesting to weld on to a Raptor swingarm a mount use the big block and 219 chain and sprockets direct drive to the left hand side of the back wheel. Should end up with something that's almost reliable as a hubby with the torque you're getting from the big block at the moment. PS - I've seen LRs version of this but not keen on the idea of bolt on brackets.
John Bozi
100 kW
Yeah that idea is still there but I'll be honest I've done enough experimenting. As much as I would like to mount up on the swingarm, I also want something reliable as a hub motor.
This feels like the end of an era. I have pulled off my batteries off the red bike too now, and will put them on my black bike which lost all its batteries due to me not turning off the motors for a couple of weeks.
The red intense m6 is now done!
I have sent money for qulbix 76. It will be a slow build as I know QS is slow on responses. I am hoping to get an extra turn or two .... I am never after speed, always after more torque at lower speeds. Will also have a look at 17" and whether I can push up the bike with a longer shock....
The End.
This feels like the end of an era. I have pulled off my batteries off the red bike too now, and will put them on my black bike which lost all its batteries due to me not turning off the motors for a couple of weeks.
The red intense m6 is now done!
I have sent money for qulbix 76. It will be a slow build as I know QS is slow on responses. I am hoping to get an extra turn or two .... I am never after speed, always after more torque at lower speeds. Will also have a look at 17" and whether I can push up the bike with a longer shock....
The End.
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