Dillenger electric screwed me over, don't buy from them.

[blackjackel]

I'm torn on this one.

One, I find it hilarious that this guy is going through this much trouble to complain and "inform" people about a companies bad service.

Two, that the "bad service" is that the company won't replace his cheap Chinese rack....... twice. :wink:

Three, if I was in his position I might feel the same way.

I do however know FOR A FACT though that I would not spend this much time and energy bad mouthing the company that sold it to me. I would either just fix the rack better than it was originally (most likely) or never do business with that company again. Either way, problem solved.

It must be silly season, because I have seen more people get ALL bent out of shape over the littlest things this week everywhere I look on the internet.

Not bent out of shape, I'm having great fun doing all of this. I wouldn't do it for any other reason as a $50 component is not worth my time or energy otherwise. Its also an educational experience for me, I've wanted to learn google site's webpage creation software for a while now, and with this I finally get the opportunity to do that! I also learned how to get a domain hosted via google sites as well, which was not as intuitive as it seemed, like, at all. I actually aready did fix the rack and yes, its way better than it was when they sold it to me.... I also did wash my hands of the company completely, the pedal assist thing that they claimed was universal is not and does not fit on my bike, but after this fiasco I haven't bothered to submit another trouble ticket for it because I figure they'll deny that warranty request too... maybe I should do it just so I have more content for the website

Oh and believe me, i find this just as hilarious as you do!

 

[MeanGene36542]

To buy multiple domains and join this site simply to dis someone... well its time for a moderator to step in please...

 

[Sunder]

To quote Elsa

"Let it go, let it go"



We've all had bad customer service. Some of us have even been outright scammed. It's one thing to let others know to avoid them, but his could almost meet the definition of borderline personality disorder. Nobody is every just good or bad. They're either "The best person ever!" or "I've never met anyone so evil in my life, I must stop them!".

 

[slacker]

Studebiker, i like to refer to it as WART= winter affecting rational thinking.

 

[blackjackel]

To quote Elsa

"Let it go, let it go"



We've all had bad customer service. Some of us have even been outright scammed. It's one thing to let others know to avoid them, but his could almost meet the definition of borderline personality disorder. Nobody is every just good or bad. They're either "The best person ever!" or "I've never met anyone so evil in my life, I must stop them!".

part of the reason why I'm doing this is because I wish I had seen my own page when I was googling around Dillenger before my purchase. I was REALLY on the edge between buying their kit and another kit... but what pushed me towards Dillenger was that excellent wording regarding their warranty.... If I had seen my own website there would have been no way in hell I would have went with their product.

I'm sure there are many other consumers out there teetering on the edge of that same decision, and If I can push them away from Dillenger and in the end save them the hassle of going through what I went through.... and learn how to build and host a website at the same time... why not?

 

[slacker]

It's one thing to let others know to avoid them, but his could almost meet the definition of borderline personality disorder. +1 well said

 

[Ohbse]

Yeah sorry, I don't think you're going to get a huge amount of sympathy from people here. You come across as a real ass hat with plenty of time to waste. Registering two domains, building a website, annotating a string of photos and your verbose posts represents a chunk of time, plenty of effort and probably more money than a better rack would have cost. This points more to you being a nutter than somebody with a valid grievance.

While I am not a lawyer, my understanding is that you're in a pretty tenuous legal situation - I certainly wouldn't want to roll the dice over $55, especially against a well regarded vendor.

p.s 200 miles in three months is not lots. I have done ~1500 in the same period and wouldn't say that I do a lot of miles.

 

[blackjackel]

Yeah sorry, I don't think you're going to get a huge amount of sympathy from people here. You come across as a real ass hat with plenty of time to waste. Registering two domains, building a website, annotating a string of photos and your verbose posts represents a chunk of time, plenty of effort and probably more money than a better rack would have cost. This points more to you being a nutter than somebody with a valid grievance.

While I am not a lawyer, my understanding is that you're in a pretty tenuous legal situation - I certainly wouldn't want to roll the dice over $55, especially against a well regarded vendor.

p.s 200 miles in three months is not lots. I have done ~1500 in the same period and wouldn't say that I do a lot of miles.

I'm not looking for sympathy, hence I'm not complaining about your attacks towards me... This is all done for informative and entertainment purposes, not to get sympathy.

I have no problem if they decide to come after me. I will only make money off of it (via punitive damages) and they will destroy themselves in the process via the Streisand effect.

I had to create a website because there is too much information and too many images to be able to post all of it on a single forum thread. The photos were created for the purposes of sending them to dillenger support, so all the photos were already there, and were already annotated as they were in order to inform dillenger... All I had to do was put them up on the website.

I'm doing all of this for my own entertainment as well as yours, to inform consumers, to learn a thing or two about hosting websites. But sure, I could be a crazy nut too, you are entitled to your own opinion.

 

[Ohbse]

I'm doing all of this for my own entertainment as well as yours, to inform consumers, to learn a thing or two about hosting websites. But sure, I could be a crazy nut too, you are entitled to your own opinion.

I should actually apologise, my post did come across rather venomous reading it back, that was not intended - only to share my impressions and opinion of your situation in an effort to perhaps change your own perception of the situation. I think you're overestimating the amount of people that would side with your point of view, certainly in this thread alone there's a substantial swell of opinion that the vendors actions were reasonable and yours less so.

 

[blackjackel]

I'm doing all of this for my own entertainment as well as yours, to inform consumers, to learn a thing or two about hosting websites. But sure, I could be a crazy nut too, you are entitled to your own opinion.

I should actually apologise, my post did come across rather venomous reading it back, that was not intended - only to share my impressions and opinion of your situation in an effort to perhaps change your own perception of the situation. I think you're overestimating the amount of people that would side with your point of view, certainly in this thread alone there's a substantial swell of opinion that the vendors actions were reasonable and yours less so.

Hey, no problem.

My perception doesn't really matter as long as I'm enjoying doing all of this, right? At this point people are judging me on how I like to have fun and how to spend my time... which again, they are entitled to their own opinion.

I actually can't see why people thick the vendor is more in the right than I am, could you please explain this to me? On both their website and on the ebay page they stated that they had an "unlimited 12 month warranty on all parts" (you can click the first page of this post to see screenshots of this).... This is the sole reason why I decided to purchase the kit from them and not elsewhere for cheaper... I expected a certain quality from their product, and I also expected an impeccable support treatment and warranty.

When I purchased their product, it broke twice, in exactly the same way... it was clearly made in and shipped directly from china, with subpar quality (poor weld points). Then they refuse to send me another part under warranty.... which directly contradicts their claims of an "unlimited 12 month warranty on all parts".

So why is the vendor more in the right than I am?

 

[Sunder]

I have no problem if they decide to come after me. I will only make money off of it (via punitive damages) and they will destroy themselves in the process via the Streisand effect.

The Streisand effect relies on them taking strong arm tactics to shut down criticism. What if they prove themselves a good vendor? It's happened before, where someone came on here to criticise a vendor, and they ended up looking good, and attracting more business.

Before your thread, I had never heard of Dillenger. However, now I know:

1. They're in multiple countries, and have multiple trademarks in different countries - which is important to me, because I plan on moving to the UK
2. They have replaced your rack at least once, which is reasonable - twice does seem like somehow you're abusing them.
3. They have replaced a sensor AND a controller pre-emptively, for someone else which seems like very good customer service to me.

I'd never use them in Australia, because I have access to a full bike workshop and can do my own work. But in the UK, where I am likely to live in a smaller apartment, you're now getting me thinking whether they would be a good quality, reliable supplier that stands by their product if I wanted a turnkey electric bike.

 

[blackjackel]

I have no problem if they decide to come after me. I will only make money off of it (via punitive damages) and they will destroy themselves in the process via the Streisand effect.

The Streisand effect relies on them taking strong arm tactics to shut down criticism. What if they prove themselves a good vendor? It's happened before, where someone came on here to criticise a vendor, and they ended up looking good, and attracting more business.

Before your thread, I had never heard of Dillenger. However, now I know:

1. They're in multiple countries, and have multiple trademarks in different countries - which is important to me, because I plan on moving to the UK
2. They have replaced your rack at least once, which is reasonable - twice does seem like somehow you're abusing them.
3. They have replaced a sensor AND a controller pre-emptively, for someone else which seems like very good customer service to me.

I'd never use them in Australia, because I have access to a full bike workshop and can do my own work. But in the UK, where I am likely to live in a smaller apartment, you're now getting me thinking whether they would be a good quality, reliable supplier that stands by their product if I wanted a turnkey electric bike.

I mentioned the Streisand Effect specifically in regards to Dillenger's attempt at suing me, which IS a strong-arm tactic. I never mentioned it anywhere else. People are saying "you're going to get sued", and I'm saying that it's not in their best interest to sue me in more ways than one.

I'd like to see the response from Dillenger actually, and I don't see how they can prove that they are a good vendor. They have told me that they have never seen the rack break before for anyone else... but that does not negate the fact that It broke for me, and does not negate the fact that their warrenty said "unlimited 12 months for all parts", and does not negate the fact that they chose to go against their own word regarding the warranty. The only way they can "prove" they are a good vendor is by outright lying or something like that... saying that their warranty did not say what it said (luckily I have both screenshots and digital copies of their website and the ebay pages).

They will no doubt attempt to send me the rack out under warranty now that this fuss has been made, but I have already washed my hands of this company, so I will refuse. This isn't about the past, what's done is done, this is about the future. I just want them to learn never to treat a customer like this in the future because there are consequences for every action. Besides, the rack piece that they will send will likely still be the same design as the old one, which means it probably will break just as fast as the old one did. The repair that I did on the rack that broke is probably stronger several times over and will likely never break.... so why would I even want another rack from them? At this point they made their bed, now they have to lie in it.

Anyways, hey, that's cool if you think they're a good vendor, you're entitled to make your own opinions, I'm only here to tell people about my personal experience. I was very surprised to learn that they replaced a sensor and controller pre-emptively, that goes against and directly contrasts my experience that I've had with them.

I cannot fathom how I could possibly have been abusing the rack, as previously stated, I never did BMX or Offroading with it, I rode it on paved roads 100% of the time.... Check out the images with the weld points pointed out, those small weld points are supposed to hold up a 10 pound battery and resist the normal vibrations of riding an electric bike on the road.

 

[motomech]

I must say, I don't care much for either side in this spat.
And to refer to Dillinger as a "well respected vendor" is being generous to a fault.
Their business model is well represented here in the States by Vendors who sell stuff that any of us here could order directly from China, then mark it up 100% and claim that it's design is proprietary.
From Dillenger's web site;

"....Sales often took a back seat to the development of new, better-engineered models.
This strategy limited Dillenger’s growth early on, but also meant that production models developed quickly and became the most reliable in a market of otherwise notoriously unreliable products. New technology in batteries, brushless motors and intelligent motor controllers led to huge improvements in the quality and reliability of electric bikes from 2008 to 2010....."

I guess we are to believe that Dillenger has an extensive R & D dept that has single-handedly elevated the sport.
These types of un-warrrented claims by vendors are are all to common in the industry, as there are only a very few that add to the sport(the biggest contributer is, of course, Grin Cycles). One vendor here in the States even uses the marketing ploy of;

Electric Bikes Are great for those who cant drive from a DUI....

Quite a few years ago, before I knew about ES and didn't know a thing, I let the Vendor do the thinking for me and purchased an over-priced kit. It went together easily and I'm still using the motor, no regrets.
But if I purchased the same kit today, I would feel like the kind of idiot that Mr. Jackel is showing himself to be.
Had he invested a small portion of the time and energy reading here that he has invested in his vendetta, he could have built a better bike for less money and we would have been spared the spectacle of watching him whine in public.

 

[blackjackel]

I must say I don't care much for either side in this spat.
And to refer to Dillinger as a "well respected vendor" is being generous to a fault.
Their business model is well represented here in the States by Vendors who sell stuff that any of us here could order directly from China, mark it up 100% and claim that it's design is proprietary.
From Dillenger's web site;

"....Sales often took a back seat to the development of new, better-engineered models.
This strategy limited Dillenger’s growth early on, but also meant that production models developed quickly and became the most reliable in a market of otherwise notoriously unreliable products. New technology in batteries, brushless motors and intelligent motor controllers led to huge improvements in the quality and reliability of electric bikes from 2008 to 2010....."

I guess we are to believe that Dillenger has an extensive R & D dept that has single-handedly elevated the sport.
These types of un-warrrented claims are are all to common in the industry, as there is only a few that add to the sport(the biggest contributer is, of course, Grin Cycles). One vendor here in the States even uses the marketing ploy of;

Electric Bikes Are great for those who cant drive from a DUI....

Quite a few years ago, before I knew about ES and didn't know a thing, I let the Vendor do the thinking for me and purchased an over-priced kit. It went together easily and I'm still using the motor, no regerts.
But if I purchased the same kit today, I would feel like the kind of idiot that Mr. Jackel is showing himself to be.
Had he invested a small portion of the time and energy reading here that he has invested in his vendetta, he could have buildt a better bike for less money and we would have been spared the spectacle of watching him whine in public.

I've spent a total of maybe 8 hours of my time so far. And I have no problem with you people having your own opinions about me. You're basically judging me by how I choose to spend my own free time, which is cool. Also, why would I want to build a better bike than what I have right now? It already goes as fast as I would want it and lasts for about 15 miles, what more could I want?

And you claim that I'm whining, did you read the post in it's entirety from start to finish? I'm having fun with this. People that whine aren't having fun

 

[motomech]

People that have fun whining have a problem.

 

[Sunder]

People that have fun whining have a problem.

Certainly indicates a vindictive and destructive personality, doesn't it? Another sign of borderline personality disorder.

 

[blackjackel]

People that have fun whining have a problem.

Certainly indicates a vindictive and destructive personality, doesn't it? Another sign of borderline personality disorder.

I fail to see how I'm whining when:

1- I'm perfectly content in what I currently have (a working bike and battery rack that I repaired myself).
2- I am no longer looking for Dillenger to replace the rack or do anything else for me as I have washed my hands of them.

Please explain this to me. Generally speaking someone whines when they want something and they aren't getting that thing.... I want not

People that have fun whining have a problem.

Certainly indicates a vindictive and destructive personality, doesn't it? Another sign of borderline personality disorder.

Is it vindictive and destructive to attempt to warn other consumers of the kind of treatment they're going to get if they deal with a certain company? Do you advocate just basically taking the bad hand they delt you and just deal with it? Should the consumer simply lie down and let corporations like this trample all over them and other consumers who are unfortunate enough to do business with them?

What would you have done if you were promised an unlimited warranty then told to shove off after a part breaks twice in exactly the same way?

This discussion has really piqued my interest because quite frankly I'm blown away at the response, it is MUCH MUCH more interesting the past situation at hand... Never would I have guessed that people would take the vendor's side over mine despite my providing all the evidence and such. This has made the situation 10X more interesting for me.

Instead of admitting that may be the company made a mistake you're trying to tell me that maybe I have used my rank and maybe that's the reason it broke.

Even now, nobody has explained why I'm in the wrong, they just keep telling me that I am.

 

[ddk]

People that have fun whining have a problem.

but a little whine is good for the digestive juices

 

[blackjackel]

People that have fun whining have a problem.

but a little whine is good for the digestive juices

You.

I like you.

 

[Dillenger_Australia]

To 'blackjackel'

Sorry you feel like we've done the wrong thing by you. Given the extremely low failure rate of the rear rack battery carriers, and the consecutive failures you have experienced, it is obviously not meeting your requirements.

We are not intending to avoid our obligations under the warranty, but sending you a 3rd rear rack would be a waste of your time and ours.

As the product is not meeting your requirements feel free to send the entire kit (including the 2 broken racks if available) picked up and returned to the warehouse in California. Upon receipt of the kit to the warehouse in fair order you will be refunded in full.

RE trademarks:

Our trademark is not our logo on the products. It is the word 'DILLENGER' so both of the domains registered are currently using our trademark.

That's the most we can possibly offer, along with an apology - sorry.

Sam
Dillenger

 

[Sunder]

This will get interesting now. The other party has come in, given a level headed response, made no threats about legal action, but has acknowledged that they own the trademark - thereby removing any defence an infringer has of implicit consent.

A skillful and deft response.

 

[blackjackel]

To 'blackjackel'

Sorry you feel like we've done the wrong thing by you. Given the extremely low failure rate of the rear rack battery carriers, and the consecutive failures you have experienced, it is obviously not meeting your requirements.

We are not intending to avoid our obligations under the warranty, but sending you a 3rd rear rack would be a waste of your time and ours.

As the product is not meeting your requirements feel free to send the entire kit (including the 2 broken racks if available) picked up and returned to the warehouse in California. Upon receipt of the kit to the warehouse in fair order you will be refunded in full.

RE trademarks:

Our trademark is not our logo on the products. It is the word 'DILLENGER' so both of the domains registered are currently using our trademark.

That's the most we can possibly offer, along with an apology - sorry.

Sam
Dillenger

I have recieved your response, but as of right now I'm at my girlfriend's house helping her move, I will post a full response when I'm back home front my computer.

As for your trademark, I will not comment on that until I have gotten the chance to speak with a trademark lawyer.

 

[pipster11]

I was going to chime in an add my $0.02, but I'll wait until I hear back from my public forum lawyer and his electric vehicle advisory board.

In the mean time, subscribing for the lols

 

[Simonism]

After such a measured response from Dillenger to these posts and other web-based interventions by what is essentially a ungentlemanly and unilateral smear campaign by blackjackel (under the guise of being "information"), I have to say that, at the moment, this very much comes across as Dillenger:1, blackjackel: 0. I may change my view but I may not, too.

Simonism (who has no connection with Dillenger, but has purchased from them)

 

[Punx0r]

Consumer laws clearly vary around the world, but in the UK, at least, blackjackel would be completely in the right unless he was misusing/abusing the rack.

If a product is defective from new (badly made or designed) then liability is on the supplier to refund or replace. This liability extends to covering the costs of carriage both ways, which is reasonable.

It could be argued in this case Dillinger is relying on the prohibitive cost of tracked international postage for an entire kit to make the warranty return offered uneconomical. Much like the "warranty" you get buying things directly from China.

IMO an amicable resolution would be to offer a partial refund for the rack only, after checking that it had been used correctly/reasonably.

That's not even considering the claim of a "12 month unlimited warranty". That's a dangerous thing to claim, unless the word "unlimited" when associated with warranties has a particular, established meaning in the U.S. contrary to what it implies.

As a side issue, it's unreasonable to say complaining is unreasonable because the product is Chinese junk. That's fair enough if you take your chances and buy directly from China for buttons via some random guy on Alibaba. You know what to expect there. Buying from a western retailer is different: It might be the same product but in exchange for that markup comes liability. Don't want warranty claims and complaints? Don't sell junk. Simple as. Again, this isn't specifically a dig at Dillinger, just at a general trend I've seen in retail.