Dillenger kit Questions

[Nightstone]

First post... Have mercy on me. I'm a Vet with spinal issues... now thats out of the way I have some questions. I'm looking to build a couple of bikes out of Dillenger kits. I live in Arizona and will be off roading with them. One bike needs to be able to tow the other with rider in case of breakdown ( My ability to pedal is limited ).

I'm a hard core geek with electronic, rc, mechanical experience so don't see any issues there. Where I need help is in practical tech.

The 2 kits are these...

http://dillengerelectricbikes.com/electric-bike-kits/1000w-electric-bike-kit-10ah-upgraded-by-dillenger.html

From the wiki Dillenger seems a competent company. These okay? Money is tight

1000w enough to tow if I have too? Im about 210 and the wifes 130 ( Weight ).

Suggestions Appreciated.

Thanks
NS

 

[Hillhater]

Hmm?
What sort of "off roading". are we talking here ?
Just well used bike trails ?...or rough , sandy, "Baha" type adventure riding ?
A hub motor is not ideal for slowish, sandy, hilly , type off road, and certainly not good for towing.
A center drive , Bafang HD , type drive might be more appropiate...certainly if you do have to tow.
PS.. But What sort of issue do you anticipate that might need a tow ?..electrical failure ?..you are smart enough to fix those.!
I suspect you are much more likely to have a puncture, split tyre, broken rim ,or spokes etc
...things that prevents towing

 

[Nightstone]

Thanks for the reply. This will be established trails. Some hills. Country dirt roads. Nothing extreme or even moderate. The reason im asking about the tow is there are days when just walking is a challenge. My spine is a mess. I want the bikes to be able to get out to those places I used to be able to without the disability

Mechanical failure and im hosed. Its the electrical/electronic that im worried about. Then there is lipo problems even though rare. Thats why I had the questions about Dillenger quality.

A center drive would be awesome but they are about twice my budget.

When you have a disability reliability becomes real important...

Thanks

NS

Hmm?
What sort of "off roading". are we talking here ?
Just well used bike trails ?...or rough , sandy, "Baha" type adventure riding ?
A hub motor is not ideal for slowish, sandy, hilly , type off road, and certainly not good for towing.
A center drive , Bafang HD , type drive might be more appropiate...certainly if you do have to tow.
PS.. But What sort of issue do you anticipate that might need a tow ?..electrical failure ?..you are smart enough to fix those.!
I suspect you are much more likely to have a puncture, split tyre, broken rim ,or spokes etc
...things that prevents towing

 

[motomech]

I have been riding dirt bikes for over 50 years and I can tell you right now, it's almost impossible to tow a 2-wheeled bike with another 2-wheeled bike on a dirt trail without slamming the "towie" to the ground.
What you will need is a 4-wheel drive truck that the remaining running bike can go back to, and then drive as close to the break-down spot as he can.
This might sound harsh, but if you can't walk a ways out to the truck. you probably shouldn't be riding in the bush in the first place.

 

[Dauntless]

I have been riding dirt bikes for over 50 years and I can tell you right now, it's almost impossible to tow a 2-wheeled bike with another 2-wheeled bike on a dirt trail without slamming the "towie" to the ground.

Oh I don't know, you're being a bit hasty. If you're keeping slow with a competent rider in back, it works well. I never fell doing this. The guy in the back needs to keep the rope taut and do the braking. The toughest trick is to keep the rope from snapping by letting it droop then tighten again. Towed 4 wheels that way, too.

But if it's a short trip back it's more trouble than it's worth.

 

[dogman dan]

I live in the desert of New Mexico, and found that for off road use, the high speed versions of that type motor are a bad idea. The fast wind makes them run hot when climbing slowly up steep hills. They work fine on paved grades, but not on steeper desert trails.

A low rpm direct drive type motor will work better, or a 500w rated geared type motor. You are not too heavy to use the geared motor, that would be your best choice. But not a too small one. You need 1000w of power, which the larger geared motors handle ok.

I weigh about 190 pounds, and have been trying to kill a 500w geared motor for the last year and a half, riding it hard as I can on desert single track trails. No joy, I can't break it unless I jump it. No overheating it riding up desert mountains.

Towing you back could work, on a nice dirt road. But it's not happening on single track. This is another reason you should choose a quality motor kit, of the right type. Don't choose by price. Then it's just a matter of avoiding running out of battery, and carrying a pump and packing thick tubes with slime.

Because of your situation, carrying at least one spare tube may be a must. Just in case you rip a valve stem off.

 

[Nightstone]

Thanks for all the replies...

As far as not being able to tow goes I agree and disagree. Years of dirt biking and I have towed folks out a few times. Not on difficult terrain. At this point I think it would be an option and should plan accordingly.

I won't be out alone... On a good day I can hike 3-4 miles no issue. On a bad day the Bathroom is a hard walk. Thats the way it is with spinal damage. I'm not the kind of guy thats going to give up on this. I did alot of extreme stuff when I was younger. Skydiver, Climber, Dirt bikes, Off Road, Soldier etc. Its hard to go from that to nothing. real hard.

An electric bike would give me at least something back that would be fun.

As far as price goes i'm locked in. I need to do this under 2k and that includes buying some used bikes. I have not seen too many kit options at a good price with decent quality.

flat repair and tools are a must. Cell phone. Water. Common sense. Etc. Some may argue that going out in my condition is not real smart... When your in a situation like mine you have to push back. Its either that or rot in a living room chair. Not an option.

Thanks again guys. Will keep this updated.

NS

 

[motomech]

Well maybe I was being a bit hasty, but I remember the times we ate it more vividly than the times it worked.
The technique on motorcycles was to wrap a few coils of the rope around the X-bar of the towed bike's H.bar and hold it on the grip. That way a "quick release was possible.
No space on my Ebikes Hbar, actually no space anywhere except the forks. Probably the worse place.
Anyhow, good luck on your quest to stay active, lot's of us Baby Boomers can relate to one degree or another.

 

[motomech]

First post... Have mercy on me. I'm a Vet with spinal issues... now thats out of the way I have some questions. I'm looking to build a couple of bikes out of Dillenger kits. I live in Arizona and will be off roading with them. One bike needs to be able to tow the other with rider in case of breakdown ( My ability to pedal is limited ).

I'm a hard core geek with electronic, rc, mechanical experience so don't see any issues there. Where I need help is in practical tech.

The 2 kits are these...

http://dillengerelectricbikes.com/electric-bike-kits/1000w-electric-bike-kit-10ah-upgraded-by-dillenger.html

From the wiki Dillenger seems a competent company. These okay? Money is tight

1000w enough to tow if I have too? Im about 210 and the wifes 130 ( Weight ).

Suggestions Appreciated.

Thanks
NS

Well, I think if I were you I would still go with a rear hub motor,as opposed to a mid-drive, but I would try and keep the motor as lite as possible, and that means a geared hub motor. That, combined with the best full suspension X country bike that fits your budget would be the easiest on your back.
Paul, a trusted vendor here sells the popular MAC motor;
http://www.em3ev.com/store/
A more budget-minded motor is the BPM from several vendors in China(as is paul);
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/586-bafang-bpm2-48v500w-rear-driving-e-bike-motor-wheel-ebike-kit.html
One of your major problems are those damned goat's head thorns we have here in Az. I have been battling those for years and right now, I run my tires tubeless with lot's of sealant. That has worked the best so far. The only time I had to walk my bike out to a trail head was because of a flat.
I'm in Tucson if you get to the point where you need some help. I don't ride off-road much anymore, but my bike is capable. It's 2WD and I built an extra set of motor/wheels for off road. They are geared for lower speed and the tires are "dirtier".
Motor speed is important to making an ebike off road capable and hills(w/tires)are the biggest challenges. It takes lot's of power(batteries)to climb steep hills, and even then, there are few etrail bikes that will climb like a gas dirt bike. At 1300 or so Watts, I just avoid steep hills.

 

[2old]

Another consideration is a second motor (small, front, dedicated) for emergencies. Schwalbe Marathon tires have proven thornproof (so far). My experience with Dillenger was good (350w, 36V front hub); just make sure that the battery in their kit is Samsung, Panasonic or equivalent.

 

[motomech]

Another consideration is a second motor (small, front, dedicated) for emergencies. Schwalbe Marathon tires have proven thornproof (so far). My experience with Dillenger was good (350w, 36V front hub); just make sure that the battery in their kit is Samsung, Panasonic or equivalent.

Another consideration is a second motor (small, front, dedicated) for emergencies.

Yup, that's what I have, 2 separate systems, 2 controllers, 2 throttles, 2 batt. packs and 2 motors. But I use the frt. most of the time, not just for emergencies.
The Marathons are great, but not very good for off road. I wanted to fit the widest tires possible for off road and it's hard(if not impossible)to find that type flat resistant tires in widths 2.5" and wider. It more like using a MX knobby.

 

[Nightstone]

Thanks for all the replies. Did more research today and tonight. Those geared kits from EM3ev seem affordable. I'm going to have to price out that way too to see what I can come out with. My only issue with a chinese vendor is the warranty. Thats one of the things Dillenger seems to have going for it. 1 year warranty and right next door to me in CA.

I looked at bikes today. Decided to go with the Diamondback Brand and go new vs used. I'm sitting at around $2100 for 2 bikes and upgrade kits.

If I go any higher I may as well just go with A Dillenger 1000W Hunter and A Step through for the wife. Free shipping would put me at around $2850 for two bikes delivered. My issue with this is I would feel better about it if I built it myself. You build it you know it.

Then there is also option 3. Part it all out and build my own lipo batteries. Cheaper still...

Arizona is indeed rough country. Thorns and cactus. I imagine cholla can be rough on tires.

Thanks
NS

 

[motomech]

If I go any higher I may as well just go with A Dillenger 1000W Hunter...

Ugg, my back hurts just looking at that. You really want a 10 lb. motor on the back on of a rigid?
Dillenger is nothing special, if I'm not mistaken, the motor is a genaric you can buy all day for $250 shipped;
http://www.yescomusa.com/products/brushless-electric-bicycle-engine-48v-1000w-rear-wheel-hub-motor-kit

. Those geared kits from EM3ev seem affordable. I'm going to have to price out that way too to see what I can come out with. My only issue with a chinese vendor is the warranty.

Paul is a Brit, has been doing business for years and I believe he tests everything that goes out.
I don't want to come off as a jerk, but you have back problems, then you need to keep the motor lite and you need a shock on the back.
No used MX/downhill bikes on Craigslist in Pheonix?
Ok, I'll give it a rest, I'm just trying to help you not making a big misake.
Good luck.

 

[Hillhater]

You said earlier that you are hardcore geek, RC, electrics, mechanical etc.....and money is tight..
So why waste money on new bikes, let alone new Ebikes like Dillenger ?
Order those geared kits from EM3ev, and his batteries, then take some time to find good used bikes to fit them on.
Use your skills, to get what you need , rather than spend cash on a compromise.

 

[Grizzl-E]

Since you are the one with the back issues perhaps you should go 2wd with small motors. And a single rear motor for your wife.

Of all my bikes i still like my small geared motor 2wd the best. Reliable and it climbs anything i can hang on for.

Ebikekit.com has some no battery kits in there sale section for 372.50 each.

And if you are capable with RC and want to save money go with hobbyking multistars. 16ah 4p are on sale for $50 each right now. You'll need three per bike to run 12s 44v.

372.50 x 3 = 1117.50

6 x 50 = 300

1417.50 total

Enough left over for some used bikes


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[Nightstone]

Buy Once. Cry Once. I get that. I also get the advantage of a geared hub motor. Especially with torc options from Em3ev. I also get the full suspension is a better ride. But i'm also on a budget and need 2 bikes.

The cheapest Em3ev option complete is around a $1000. Used Good Quality full suspension bike around $400-500. That puts me way over budget.

So I have to compromise somewhere. Easiest place I see to compromise is on the bike. Then there is the used vs new. Do I want to trust a used bike out in the middle of nowhere? Not really... So I looked at quality hard tail mountain bikes with cnc brakes. The Diamondback bikes fit this. 2 bikes new about $600. Rougher on my back but I can upgrade the frame later on.

Around $2600 for 2 bikes. $2800 for a 1 hard tail and a full suspension. $800 over budget.

Next option is the Dillenger one. 2 cheaper hub kits. $1549. 470w for wife and 1000w for me. Samsung Battery packs. 1 New Full suspension bike and a hard tail. $800.

Around $2350 for 2 bikes with one having full suspension. $2150 for 2 hard tails.

So whats easier to upgrade going forward...If I go Em3ev I need to upgrade the bike. If I go Dillenger I need to upgrade the Hub Motor.

Its all about compromise and ability to upgrade going forward.

This is where i'm at right now.

NS

 

[Nightstone]

I use multistars on many of my FPV planes and quads. My biggest issue with them is the number of charge cycles I get before resistance starts to become an issue and power draw starts to drop off.

I do not know how a good bike battery from say samsung would compare when it comes to usable charge cycles. Say I get 100 cycles out of the multistar. 3 sets is 300 cycles at $450. What would I get out of a good $450 battery?

NS

Since you are the one with the back issues perhaps you should go 2wd with small motors. And a single rear motor for your wife.

Of all my bikes i still like my small geared motor 2wd the best. Reliable and it climbs anything i can hang on for.

Ebikekit.com has some no battery kits in there sale section for 372.50 each.

And if you are capable with RC and want to save money go with hobbyking multistars. 16ah 4p are on sale for $50 each right now. You'll need three per bike to run 12s 44v.

372.50 x 3 = 1117.50

6 x 50 = 300

1417.50 total

Enough left over for some used bikes


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[Nightstone]

just hit Ebike kit dot com. Started browsing through kits and thought wow great prices. Till I realized no batteries.

There is so much variance in price on these hub motors. Most of these have to be coming right out of china and get rebranded and marked up.

NS

 

[motomech]

They ALL come out of China.
I could link you to the to the vendors in China that I use for big savings, but you seem set in your thinking that you will take it on your chin if you do that.
And your declaration that a used mountain bike can't be reliable is just plain silly. We'll not telling you to buy a beater.
Used MX bikes can be the biggest bargins in Ebiking. People buy them and take them out once and when they see how much work they are, just park them.
I have bought 4 or 5 year old bikes in mint cond. for less than half MSRP.
Once they are a few years old, the serious MX guys consider them too heavy and obsolete. Things that don't matter when converting to an ebike.
You seem to have come here with certain preconceptions and won't consider what all three of us are telling you(buy a 3 to 10 year old quality mountain bike and put a gear hub motor kit on the back) or my advise that you get a bike with rear suspension to cushsion your back. That last part just leaves me speachless.
Good luck

 

[Grizzl-E]

I use multistars on many of my FPV planes and quads. My biggest issue with them is the number of charge cycles I get before resistance starts to become an issue and power draw starts to drop off.

I do not know how a good bike battery from say samsung would compare when it comes to usable charge cycles. Say I get 100 cycles out of the multistar. 3 sets is 300 cycles at $450. What would I get out of a good $450 battery?

NS

Your correct, and actually I usually hate on lipo pretty bad. Its not a big cost savings long term and most people will mishandle them and destroy them. That said, you have a nearly impossible budget.

You also seem capable with lipo. And if they are well cared for you can get up to (and over) 300 cycles out of them. Remember your pulling a lower c rate on a bike than a quad. Thats nearly 3 rides a week for three years. At which point you will likely want something else anyway, be it more range or more power.

When guys come on here and say they have never seen an rc battery and commute to work on a bike, I yell NO LIPO. But if your a smart, occasional use rider, with time to take care of them, lipo is awesome.

 

[Grizzl-E]

Also check out bikesdirect.com and bikeisland.com if you want to go new.


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[Nightstone]

Dude... You just made my day.

I did not realize you could push that many cycles through these. That kind of changes things on my buy. I already own 2 250w I chargers and a 600w power supply for my FPV fleet.

The multistar mentioned above is 16000 mah 4s. 3 In series is a 12s 48v 16000mah. At 80 percent thats 12800mah thats usable. I dont' know what the amp draw on a 1000w motor is but the controllers seem to be around 20a. So lets say cruise is around 12a draw. Thats 64 minutes of drive time. That seems pretty good to me.

You are right about Lipos. They need to be cared for and more than likely not for a new person. We have guys at our field that have been flying for years and still don't get c rating or figuring amp draw.

This just got a bit less expensive for me and opens up the door to going a different way.

Big thanks Grizzl-E. Thats a game changer.
NS

I use multistars on many of my FPV planes and quads. My biggest issue with them is the number of charge cycles I get before resistance starts to become an issue and power draw starts to drop off.

I do not know how a good bike battery from say samsung would compare when it comes to usable charge cycles. Say I get 100 cycles out of the multistar. 3 sets is 300 cycles at $450. What would I get out of a good $450 battery?

NS

Your correct, and actually I usually hate on lipo pretty bad. Its not a big cost savings long term and most people will mishandle them and destroy them. That said, you have a nearly impossible budget.

You also seem capable with lipo. And if they are well cared for you can get up to (and over) 300 cycles out of them. Remember your pulling a lower c rate on a bike than a quad. Thats nearly 3 rides a week for three years. At which point you will likely want something else anyway, be it more range or more power.

When guys come on here and say they have never seen an rc battery and commute to work on a bike, I yell NO LIPO. But if your a smart, occasional use rider, with time to take care of them, lipo is awesome.

 

[Nightstone]

If anyone seeing the above post is confused about the 4s and Mah its the terminology used in RC. I guess in E-bikes 4p and Ah. Amp Hours instead of Mili amp hours. So that battery combo would be 16AH. Or 12.8ah Usable.

NS

 

[Nightstone]

Just hit Em3ev's site looking for a battery less kit at 1000W. They don't have one. Just the rear wheel stand alone. His stand alone parts list is slim pickings too so no option to part it together. Guess I could get the wheel and part the rest elsewhere.

NS

 

[mark5]

Just hit Em3ev's site looking for a battery less kit at 1000W. They don't have one. Just the rear wheel stand alone. His stand alone parts list is slim pickings too so no option to part it together. Guess I could get the wheel and part the rest elsewhere.

You mean rear wheel with controller, etc--em3ev has such kits without batteries e.g. for Mac motors UPGRADE EM3EV VERS. MAC , 500/1000W PICK'N'MIX KIT. Lunacycle also has a geared motor kit.