DIY ligo modular battery with Hoverboard packs

[Mike_Kelly]

Since Grin does not offer the Ligo currently I have been thinking of making my own. I found Hoverboard 36v 2amp batteries which would fit the FAA guidelines at less than 100wh. The are uN38.3 approved. 10 of them would make a 720wh ebike battery. They each have BMS but I would probably have to charge them separately to be safe.
There are lots of posts about the fire hazards of early hoverboard batteries. Have those problems been solved or is it still an issue.
Any thoughts?
Thanks

 

[neptronix]

The real problem with hoverboard batteries is that they tend to be very low quality in order to make the product cheap.
That means the dodgiest, most dangerous cells you can get.... which is the primary reason there was a lot of fires.

These batteries are unlikely to work with the BMSes connected together in what i imagine is a parallel configuration. Ligo is designed to do that.

UN 38.3 approved? ask for proof if the cost is low.
What cells do they contain? very important question to ask.

I would instead go this route and use quality cells:
N.E.S.E. the no solder module

 

[docw009]

Depends on the battery quality. In 2016, Battery Hookup unloaded a ton of unbranded 10S-2P hoverboard packs using Panasonic 22P. These turned out to be reliable and well made in my opinion. I ran two in parallel on several of my ebikes for almost 5 years. They stayed in balance, even w/o a balance BMS, and none failed. They just got old and started showing too much voltage sag,

My experience with these led me to try generic chinese shrink wrap ebike batteries. The road to Hell. Most of those are cheaply made, with cells of suspect quality. To be avoided. Maybe new hoverboard packs are like this now.

I have not followed the hoverboard market. I believe the industry had to get UL approvals, but I could be wrong, The TSA limits are somewhat unclear, saying that 100WH is the limit (Grin's target), but the airlines "may" allow 160 WH

.

 

[Mike_Kelly]

I would like to take my ebike to europe and ride but depressingly there seems to be no way to do it. Grins Ligo batteries were a good idea but they are not available and it seems they are having a problem developing version 2. So I thought I would do it myself but there is only one <100wh battery out there and there is no way to verify if the ratings are real or a lie. The FAA will let you bring on board a number or <100wh batteries or two 100-160wh. It is very vague as to how many <100wh. But in addition I have given up trying to find a rear hub drive to convert my normal touring bikes since I still use rim brakes and the only batteries I can find are 36v.
So I guess I give up.

 

[neptronix]

Plenty of hub motors compatible with rim brakes out there, it's all in the rim itself.

I used to run a MAC 8T on 36v and it went above 25mph. They can be nazis about speed and modification in some parts of Europe, so maybe you want a motor smaller than that.

Where are you looking for batteries? you can get all kinds of voltages everywhere.

Since laws and power levels are so different, maybe you could rent a euro ebike if your time in Europe is short.

 

[docw009]

I don't fly much, so I agree with TSA's 100WH limitation.

I used to get 12 miles out of a "40V" Ryobi weed whacker battery. It only had 2.5AH and rated 85WH. Funny thing. when I put it in parallel with a 5AH Ryobi, I only got 15 miles. Mismatched discharge curves, BMS interactions, who knows. If you found a tool pack combo that worked, don't try to carry it on the plane. Buy them overseas and leave it there.,

Better yet, make it an ebike battery instead and buy it and leave it in Europe, Some of the third party sellers from China have warehouses in Europe,

 

[wturber]

Depends on the battery quality. In 2016, Battery Hookup unloaded a ton of unbranded 10S-2P hoverboard packs using Panasonic 22P. These turned out to be reliable and well made in my opinion. I ran two in parallel on several of my ebikes for almost 5 years. They stayed in balance, even w/o a balance BMS, and none failed. They just got old and started showing too much voltage sag,

My experience with these led me to try generic chinese shrink wrap ebike batteries. The road to Hell. Most of those are cheaply made, with cells of suspect quality. To be avoided. Maybe new hoverboard packs are like this now.

I have not followed the hoverboard market. I believe the industry had to get UL approvals, but I could be wrong, The TSA limits are somewhat unclear, saying that 100WH is the limit (Grin's target), but the airlines "may" allow 160 WH

.

Back then I think they called themselves Alarm hookup or something similar. I bought 10 of those batteries and I still run them. The main use was 8 of them in parallel 4 each in one of two waterproof cases. The batteries I had used Samsung cells. I'm still using them even though two got destroyed when my ebike got towed behind a trailer. I'm repurposing three of them to run in parallel on a tow bike I cobbled together for Bob's Free Bikes. In fact, I'm mounting the battery pack in an hour or so. I'll post a pic.

Anyway, those batteries work fine in parallel. The BMSs even cut out properly when I ran the pack too low and also all came back on line after charging. They've been great.

 

[Mike_Kelly]

I want a Bafang motor because I run an M820 in my mountain bike and I don't feel like doing endless research to find another brand. There are almost no rim brake versions that I can find. I have spend hours searching online and aliexpress. I also need 36v 700c cassette. If I could find the wheels I would get a welder and make the batteries. I found a perfect kit with a Sutto,, Bafang sub-brand, but they can't ship to the US.

 

[wturber]

Back then I think they called themselves Alarm hookup or something similar. I bought 10 of those batteries and I still run them. The main use was 8 of them in parallel 4 each in one of two waterproof cases. The batteries I had used Samsung cells. I'm still using them even though two got destroyed when my ebike got towed behind a trailer. I'm repurposing three of them to run in parallel on a tow bike I cobbled together for Bob's Free Bikes. In fact, I'm mounting the battery pack in an hour or so. I'll post a pic.

Anyway, those batteries work fine in parallel. The BMSs even cut out properly when I ran the pack too low and also all came back on line after charging. They've been great.

Here's the pic of my three parallel hoverboard batteries mounted on the tow bike.

 

[99t4]

Scott AT-4 handlebars!!! I loved those, ran them for years! Where did you get them?

 

[Mike_Kelly]

I have decided the only way to solve the transport problem is to have a manufacturer ship new batteries to a pickup point in Europe. Treat then as an expendable for the trip and leave them there on the return.

 

[wturber]

Scott AT-4 handlebars!!! I loved those, ran them for years! Where did you get them?

Craigslist. Those are the AT4-Pros. Just got lucky. I have a set of regular AT4s on my folding Dahon. It would still fold about 95% complete with the AT4 bars.

 

[99t4]

I have decided the only way to solve the transport problem is to have a manufacturer ship new batteries to a pickup point in Europe. Treat then as an expendable for the trip and leave them there on the return.

Would you have a chance to sell them prior to departure? Possibly preplan the sale?

 

[Mike_Kelly]

Unlikely because there is such a short time between end of ride and flight. Might give them to a shop for the privilege of shipping them to the shop.

 

[afzal]

Perhaps try to find if any ES member in the country of interest (seems there are many from Europe) would be willing to purchase & take it back at the end of the trip on mutually agreeable terms, might be a win-win for both?

 

[Mike_Kelly]

I found this solderless battery rack. It has three modular battery holders for 10 cells each. With a common BMS on top. This seems like a solution because you can remove the individual cells and carry them in a hard case. The individual cells are much less than the 100wh limit and the rules do not state any limit for under 100wh. Then just reassemble at the other end. Are solderless holders reliable. Anybody heard of Heltec BMS?


Cheers

 

[lnanek]

There's some threads on the forum where people try generic battery holders like that, but say they lose contact intermittently on bumps and the like. Then they try stiffening the springs.

If going that direction, why not use Gouach Battery Framework ? They have a commercial bike fleet they used it on first before offering the individual solder-less case.

 

[wturber]

There's some threads on the forum where people try generic battery holders like that, but say they lose contact intermittently on bumps and the like. Then they try stiffening the springs.

If going that direction, why not use Gouach Battery Framework ? They have a commercial bike fleet they used it on first before offering the individual solder-less case.

Very interesting. But not currently shipping. Also, their IndieGoGo offer is only for a Battery + Cells. I'd probably be a buyer if I could just buy the case/system and not the cells. That has me concerned about how adaptable the system is to other cells. I would hope such a system would work with a wide range of 18650 cells.

 

[lnanek]

> offer is only for a Battery + Cells

That's not true, the one on the left is with cells and the one on the right without:

 

[neptronix]

+1 for the Gouach. Personally weighing the idea of using it on my ladybike.

 

[wturber]

> offer is only for a Battery + Cells

That's not true, the one on the left is with cells and the one on the right without:
View attachment 360945

You are correct. I'm not sure how I missed that. Maybe because they called it a "battery"? I dunno. Weird. It was right there.

I'm surprised that the cells don't add that much to the cost of the system. It's a nice looking system, but $250 seems a little high to me. I'll have to noodle on the value of the longevity and long term value of replacing the cells. I agree that this seems like a nice solution for the OP if it were shipping now or if it ships in time for his travel.