do you think this is a good letter to write to your MP?

[monster]

i am writing to you with a new idea that could win your government the votes of the many "green voters" that party leaders are so eager to court. electric bikes are a new form of personal transport that is environmentally friendly, cheap and convenient. the combination of electric bike, train and taxi has the potential to replace cars and save people hundreds of pounds a year. electric bikes are safer that normal bikes because the extra speed gives car drivers longer to see you when they overtake and the strong battery pack can power big lights making electric bikes more visible at night.

EU legislation currently allows cyclists to use electric motors of up to 200 watts (continuous) and for no more than 15 mph. this was incorporated into to English law and made electric bikes possible. however the law is obsolete and restrictive, which limits the technology to niche markets such as the elderly. 200 watts is not even enough to climb a hill and pedal cyclists can travel at much faster speeds. this is a shame because a higher power limit would encourage many other people to get on two wheels and would reduce this countries carbon emissions considerably.

above this 200 watt limit an electric bike is classed as a moped and then requires a European type-approval certificate, MSVA Testing, insurance, tax and MOT. insurance is impossible to get because the non-standard vehicle will not be on an insurers database and will be refused.

the current UK law is unenforceable because it is impossible for police to tell weather a bike is over 200 watts. the law is too vague because there is no limit on peak power which allows a big loop hole for people to exploit. in the USA the limit is 750 watts and some states allow 1000 watts. in this country horse riders can drive 500 kg animals with 1 horse power (750 watts), very little control and do not need to pay for tax, insurance or MOT.

if the government were to pass a bill to increase the UK electric bike power limit in line with America this would be very popular among green voters, cyclists and anyone bored of inner city traffic ques.

 

[Dr. Shock]

Good letter. There are still a couple of typos, and unless the British have abandoned capital letters along with the standard system of weights and measures, I'd put them in to avoid the distraction of their absence.

I also wouldn't call the 750 watt level a limit. It is really a federal level probably more relevant to trade tariffs than speed laws, since there are no federal speed laws. Each state sets its own, and the most populous state, California, sets 1,000 watts as the limit.

You might also offer to set up a demonstration so the MP can see how totally useless 200 watts is, and how barely adequate 1 hp can be for attacking a big hill, especially for a full grown male rider using SLA batteries.

 

[monster]

i think i remember a video of a Plymouth UK rider from this site demonstrating the inadequacies for a 200 watt bike. was it y-pedal?

 

[deecanio]

hi monster,

that 200w demo was by steve head, he showed how poor 200w really is, it will be on one of his dirtmonkey vids if you want to search it.
interesting points in the letter - i had always wondered how it could be "safe" to ride a 500kg animal with a mind of its own - i have a lot of horseriders here and they are allowed anywhere in the forest - go figure.
I would think that the reason theres such a crappy law generally on ebikes is because the gov make no money from them at all.
They will tell you how we need to be green but the truth is they make shed loads of money from motorists and they won't be changing anything about that in a hurry!!
we all know the benefits to the enviroment of using electricity for transport and we also know that we have the technology to make the 100 yr old combustion engine a thing of the past but it's never going to happen.
If any goverment in the world was really serious about emmissions they would simply need to give all car manufacturers a deadline by which they would need to be producing non petrol vehicles .....say 2050 just as an example.
lets not forget that massive oil companies have serious financial clout and with the gov making roughly 80 pence per litre on petrol their simply not going to enforce anything to rock the boat!!



cheers


D

 

[knoxie]

Hi

Yes I think you make some very good points there esp about the horses! sadly our arcane laws and rules stretch so far back in time now that you would find that horses and horses and carts may have more rights to be on the road than us as they were there first!

The limit in the UK is not just on power of course it also restricts the speed to 15mph and the motor has to cut out above that and it also has to to cut out when you stop peddling, its stupid and restrictive, I dont think there is any need for 30mph bikes as that isnt safe as people would ride them on the paths and without lights the same way that people ride at the moment, I think the US limits are pretty reasonable, 750-1000W is fine esp if you have not limits on speed as well as a 750W motor powered through gears ALA Randy Drapers machine would make for a great long range commuter, most all other hub motors and kits have to be driven over 1KW in order to get speed or enough power to drag the fairly substantial size of the average brit these days, aren't we the fattest in Europe? ha ha

I saw a ridiculous thing panning around on the GMTV website the other day, they were trying to get cyclists registered with number plates as people in London dont like the fact that cyclists jump red lights? WTF? there prob is little chance of getting e-bikes upped in power with that kind of mindset being touted around, it bugged the hell out of me!! GMTV were praising this old lady's because she hit a cyclist with her handbag because he jumped the lights? they were treating her like some sort of hero? what if he had wobbled and gone under a truck? and surely isnt this kind of action considered as assault? since when should morning television promote such an attack! I was so bloody angry when I saw that on there that I wont watch the show any more, why do they think cyclist jump red lights????? erm coz they don't want to be mowed down be cars and lorries turning in on them!!

It was so irresponsible of that show to promote such action, now the advantage of e-bikes is that you don't need to run red lights on an e-bike, even legal ebikes with low enough gearing should be able to out accelerate cars off the line and the high power bikes certainly can, my Puma at 37V flies off from a standing start and the Currie was even quicker I have never been in a compromising position from the lights and I often find myself hanging back a bit as I can out accelerate most cars unless they are really trying.

Some great points raised though, I think the best thing to do is just to quietly promote higher power e-biking to folks but encourage them to act responsibly, I have only been stopped once and they never even noticed the motor and batteries, it was hilarious! I thought my number was up!! ha ha.

Hi Deecanio as well, nice to hear from you again!

Knoxie

 

[Dr. Shock]

"The limit in the UK is not just on power of course it also restricts the speed to 15mph and the motor has to cut out above that and it also has to to cut out when you stop peddling, its stupid and restrictive, ..."

It also discriminates against people with disabilities like arthritis who have limited abilities to pedal. I like my ebike because it lets me get as much exercise and fresh air as my knees will allow on a given day, and I can still get to the shops and job without taking the car. On bad knee days, I can't pedal much or I need a bit of rest between sessions. A pedal assist bike would be no good at all to me.


"I dont think there is any need for 30mph bikes as that isnt safe as people would ride them on the paths and without lights the same way that people ride at the moment, I think the US limits are pretty reasonable, 750-1000W is fine esp if you have not limits on speed "

I'd go for the highest power you can get, first because they'll probably cut you down, and second, because a big guy with a heavy battery is sometimes going to need a lot of power on a big hill. The speed limit requirement is just going to waste law enforcement time. Let them have a look at the motor, and if it says 1,000 watts or less, they're done and can get back to catching criminals (eating donuts, or whatever they eat in the UK).

 

[Lessss]

Yes I think you make some very good points there esp about the horses! sadly our arcane laws and rules stretch so far back in time now that you would find that horses and horses and carts may have more rights to be on the road than us as they were there first!

Actually roads in many places were built at the behest of cyclists over the objections of horse owners. Bicycles at the time did not have coushioned tires and were striders. This meant the family jewels could get a very shakey ride. It was also a reason women were discouraged from riding.

 

[kbarrett]

the current UK law is unenforceable because it is impossible for police to tell weather a bike is over 200 watts. the law is too vague because there is no limit on peak power which allows a big loop hole for people to exploit. in the USA the limit is 750 watts and some states allow 1000 watts. in this country horse riders can drive 500 kg animals with 1 horse power (750 watts), very little control and do not need to pay for tax, insurance or MOT.

if the government were to pass a bill to increase the UK electric bike power limit in line with America this would be very popular among green voters, cyclists and anyone bored of inner city traffic ques.

First typos I noticed:

First should be "whether", second should be "queues".

The first word at the start of a sentence is always capitalized.


( Normally I don't do spelling 'lames, but you are writing this as a lobbyist. )

 

[Dr. Shock]

A couple more specific thoughts.

"...electric bikes are safer that normal bikes..." change 'that' to 'than'

Use the first paragraph to lay out the broad point of the letter. After the first two sentences, I'd go immediately to the point that 200 watts is too low and needs to be raised to the 1,000 watt level allowed in the United States. That is the main point. The rest of the first paragraph is argument about details which should come later in the letter.

 

[Link]

GMTV were praising this old lady's because she hit a cyclist with her handbag because he jumped the lights?

:lol:

I shouldn't laugh, but come ON! Picture that!

Let them have a look at the motor, and if it says 1,000 watts or less, they're done and can get back to catching criminals

This lends itself well to certain abuses 8). You know how fast you could go on a faired recumbent or velomobile with that kind of juice?

(eating donuts, or whatever they eat in the UK).

Scones?

I dont think there is any need for 30mph bikes as that isnt safe as people would ride them on the paths and without lights the same way that people ride at the moment,

Um, I can go pretty fast as it is without a motor. I'm pretty sure that extra 1000 watts could pretty easily push me over 30, so what's the diff? Not being able to do that all the time?

Also, what's the deal with pro-cyclists? Supposedly they can do like 1600 watts for short durations. I want the same speed.

...

There was something else I wanted to say, but I can't remember now...

 

[safe]

750 watts / Pedals / 20 mph

The Federal Law in America says the motor power heat rating (rated load) is to be 750 watts, you need pedals and cannot exceed 20 mph on flat land with the motor alone.

The law is designed so that when a manufacturer builds an electric bike he can sell it in all 50 states without worry about it's legal definition... in other words you can be CERTAIN than you can SELL in the US with this law. (local laws can sometimes remain "backward looking" as far as enforcement)

Once the buyer takes the bike home he has the option to modify it or not. Some states (like Missouri) allow up to 2250 watt (3 hp) and speeds of 30 mph and do not care about pedals. The Moped Law ends up being used for everything small.

So I would discard the mention about specific states that allow more than 750 watts... it's not just 1000 watts as an option, but all the way up to 2250 watts and when you mention such confusion it just makes your argument worse. (the old local laws are a mess)

You should present the "750 watts / Pedals / 20mph" Federal Law as a framework and (ideally) if everyone standardized on the SAME THING we could build and buy bikes from each other.

Wouldn't that be a good thing?

 

[monster]

ok its sent thanks for all your adjustments