Done research, but need help. 150mm hub

[cavegiant]

Hi,

Am a first time poster I am going to make all the first timer mistakes.
I've done a lot of research, but got swamped with info, I'm not sure what is fact and what is marketing bias.

What I am wanting to do is quite simple, but not standard.

I have a Niner WFO bike that I use for everything.
It is a 29er enduro bike.

I am moving and need to use it for commuting.

The commute is going to be 10-14 miles each way (can charge for 8 hours at work).

What I want is a silent electric torque activated rear hub that can up my speed to about 20mph.

The big issue is that it has a 150mmx12mm maxle on the back.

With one of these
http://www.ebikessf.com/catalog/52
and some engineering and spare drop outs (I have). I could fit that to the bike.

Those units are VERY expensive and overpower for what I need.

So is there something cheap that would work?

I know this is a general question, but i'm quite new to this, so any help would be appreciated.

For a job i'm an industrial electrician, and a bit of a geek, so with a point in the right direction I should be able to get this.

Thanks

Giant

 

[cavegiant]

I tried the commute today and could maintain about 15mph on my own power (with a mild head wind).

What I am wanting is enough power to do more, even if there is a serious head wind.

Am in UK if that helps anyone recommend a supplier.

 

[friendly1uk]

The strength of your headwind is a huge factor. Without one, a Q100 328 would get you over 20mph. With a good headwind it will stop though.

You perhaps need a motor that will climb quite well, with a few volts up it to achieve the speeds your looking for. This headwind is not quantifiable though. You need to look at it in terms of hill climbing.

Perhaps a bpm from green bike kit will suffice. I think there in the ebikes.ca simulator.

 

[wesnewell]

Please go to the User Control Panel, select Profile, and then enter your city, state/province, and country into the Location field (country minimum) and save it. This will help people help you. Example: Wylie, TX, USA. Without knowing what country you are in it's hard to make any recommendations. Thank you.

 

[Drunkskunk]

Unfortunatly, there aren't any hub motors that will work with your 12mm through axle. And the only hubs that will fill a 150mm rear spacing are going to dramatic overkill capable of huge motorcycle-like power.

So if you want a hub motor, The bad news is you're going to need another bike.

The good news is what you want is available from a few sources. Bionix makes a torque based system. Its fully propriatary and can't be upgraded easily, but it's a good system for a torque based pedelec.
A better alternative is a Thun EX-cell crank sensor based system, using a CA V3 to feed power to a motor of your choice, with a battery of your choice. those are avaailable from Ebikes.ca

As for the motor, you can go with a hub motor of many varaities, a through the gears style, or a high end friction drive. The Hub motors will be the easiest and cheapest, and least problematic. they come in 2 varities. the heavier but silent Direct drive, or the lighter but noisier geared drives. for your needs, the direct drive makes the most sense if you plan to use some assistance all the time. A 9c or one of it's clones would work well.

 

[NeilP]

you could bypass the 150mm problem by looking at a front motor, even if you have to change the forks.

There was a 135 mm swing arm option for those bikes according to reviews..that may be another way, see if you can get a different swing arm.

Look at emissions free.com

http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=36

Run by an english chap ( paul ) CellMan here on the forum.

 

[sacko]

Sell your current bike and look at something like this..

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=50574

 

[cavegiant]

Thanks for the tips so far.

I am exceptionally partial to this bike, hence wanting to make this work. I'm not above machining a few bits is necessary.

Front fork is a total no go. Manitou Dorado, I'm not messing with that!


I have read a lot of articles where people are complaining that they cannot get the hubs to fit in their 135 frame, and having to bend it to get it in.
There has to be something out there that'll work.

If there is a hub with a long axle (like the one I mentioned above) I could fit a tube to the outside of the axle to bring it from 10mm to 12. The issue would be lining up the disk and cassette.

This bike gets used for a lot of things, so the less mods I have to do the better.
M-F this will be an electric bike, S-S it will be either a mountain bike or road bike. Lots of rebuilding!

If no-one knows of a hub that does this, then I'm happy to do the leg work myself and ask for assistance in one more way.

If I'm asking around I really need to know what I'm asking for.

I read about 1 system that reads when you are pedaling, then it tops up the power with a ratio of what you put in.

So is this called a pedelec?

I think I need to buy a hub, a battery, and a controller?

Are all systems compatible and what should I look for?

Any other tips?

As for the 150, might have a chat to that CNC guy modding the DH bike.

 

[sacko]

Why dont you look at a Mid-drive? Would save messing around with the wheel completely.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=42785

Are you anywhere near Kent?

 

[NeilP]

In that case get any motor you fancy and machine your own new axle to fit your frame

See my thread where I made my new axle for the 5304

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=40785&start=75

 

[cavegiant]

This is the one that caught my attention.

It says it increases power the harder you push.

http://teamhybridebikes.com/shop/product.php?s=hx-mt-500w-fs-20-mph-32-kph

Do all pedlec do this, or is unique, or does this feature have a name?



I live up North, as for mid-drive, it wouldn't work with my frame.

 

[cavegiant]

Answering my own question here.

Torque sensor!

useful info here for anyone else interested.

http://www.electricbike.com/torque-sensors/

 

[NeilP]

As mentioned earlier, get a resr DD hub, and a Cycle analyst V3 with the bundled THUN torque sensor crank and PAS sensor.

Throttle is wired to the CA, and the CA drives the controller with input from RHUN crank torque sensor.
You have to replace the bottob bracket beating unit and crank, so if you have a fancy hollowtech type and special front chain ring and crank arms, these then will need changing too, to suit the THUN crank shaft.

If you don't want to change that either, then the only other option is to develop something yourself.

 

[NeilP]

But, No, not all pedelec systems have torque sensing.

Many just apply power when pedals turn, regardless of speed or power.

From your link, on the iPhone screen, I can't see how the torque sensing is achieved on that kit.
Maybe there is a torque/load sensor in the motor / rear cassette mounting?

But earlier I thought you said the kits you linked to were too expensive, that kit is a lot more I think?

And you still have the 150mm axle issue.

Think your best bet is buying parts and building yourself.
CA V3, with THUN crank and PAS and a motor of your choosing.
The geared motors are lighter, and looking at power levels you want will be fine. You may have to do the machining you talked of earlier, and strip the motor and rebuild with your own axle....or try and get one of the 135mm swing arms.

 

[Chalo]

So if you want a hub motor, The bad news is you're going to need another bike.

Agreed.

It's better not to bodge up your play bike with a lot of heavy kludgy electric gear. And if you like to push pedals, get a rigid bike to make the most of your pedal power while saving a pile of money in the process. This is a job for a commuter, not a trail bike.

If it's regular transportation you want, use a sturdy rigid bike with a rigid fork, fat tires, fenders, a rear rack and/or front basket, and inexpensive rugged parts. 7-speed rear shifting, linear-pull brakes, and 26" wheels with chunky rims help your bike's cost-effectiveness from both ends-- less expense and greater reliability.

 

[NeilP]

With one of these
http://www.ebikessf.com/catalog/52
and some engineering and spare drop outs (I have). I could fit that to the bike.

Those units are VERY expensive and overpower for what I need.

So is there something cheap that would work?

If you want cheap on the motor/kit side then maybe you want to consider finding a scrap 'Thompson' bike. plenty in the UK I am sure..I know there are many over here in Jersey. Get it cheap (£25-£50), get a version 3 CA with THUN sensor and PAS and re-lace the Thompson hub to a rim of your choice. Even make a new axle for the 150mm if you are determined to use that frame.
Thompson's are a family import business from what I understand, UK only, that bring in cheap electrical from China etc
http://www.thompsons-online.co.uk/

Some of the bikes they imported have 24 inch spoked wheels, with a very slow wind hub motor. It is Star terminated motor, re terminate as Delta if you need more speed, though I expect if you re spoke one of these little hubs to a 26 or 29 inch wheel it will be fast enough for you at 50 volts. I know one of these hubs at 100 volts in a 24 inch wheel did about 35 mph..so go up in wheel size will increase the speed, but dropping down to 50 volts will bring it back down to the range you want. Sure you can pick one of these complete bikes up for £50

Look for these bikes, scrap the bike,kep rear wheel controller and throttle..brake levers too maybe, dump the rest.
Follow the links to my threads about them

They are beefy little motors, and easy enough to press the axle out and machine your own to fit your 150mm swingarm
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25399&start=20

But as Chalo and other said..keep your 29er as a ride bike and build a commute on a different frame. You do not seem to want to change anything on the 29'er , so it is going to need custom made e-kit to make it fit.