Dr. Greger explains the cause of insulin resistance, p 17 and explains how to reverse heart failure pg 17

[Chalo]

It seems like many vegetarians, want to force their way of eating, onto others and im against that mindset.

Vegans and agnostics are always the first to extoll their wealth of ideas.

Religious cuckoo birds have them all outdone for track record, endurance, audacity, and mendacity. No vegan ever burned a meat eater at the stake, or forced him to relocate to a different country if he continued eating meat. I don't think agnostics make a habit of going door to door trying to talk folks out of believing in stupid things.

 

[tomjasz]

Does anyone eat RAW meat and drink RAW milk from a cow?

Um, yes. Steak tartar and raw milk from a properly run dairy is considered uber healthy by some.
There’s always someone that knows better, or more.

 

[neptronix]

Um, yes. Steak tartar and raw milk from a properly run dairy is considered uber healthy by some.
There’s always someone that knows better, or more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maasai_people#Diet

That's the basis for the maasai tribe's diet. Milk, cow's blood, and meat.. and sometimes, vegetables for decoration. Unless they end up living in modernity. Then they start eating grains and corn just like most people.

Their health results are pretty amazing. But consider that these people have lived under evolutionary pressure and probably adapted to this diet over a really long period of time. Not so much with us city dwellers..

Almost complete absence of cavities and wildly low cholesterol is an interesting contrast to what McDougall and other zealots believe.

 

[Chalo]

That's the basis for the maasai tribe's diet. Milk, cow's blood, and meat.. and sometimes, vegetables for decoration. Unless they end up living in modernity. Then they start eating grains and corn just like most people.

Their health results are pretty amazing. But consider that these people have lived under evolutionary pressure and probably adapted to this diet over a really long period of time. Not so much with us city dwellers..

"Life expectancy in Tanzania is 42 for men and 44 for women."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/northamptonshire/features/2004/maasai/maasai_03.shtml

You can get away with a lot if you don't need to do it for very long. Populations known for long lifespan don't eat like that. But I'm guessing that long-lived places don't have a consensus on how to eat, either.

 

[neptronix]

That's a pretty typical lifespan for hunter gatherers with zero connection to civilization in an extremely difficult environment.

They aren't dying from obesity, heart disease, or type 2 diabetes though. All the things that civilized man can't seem to figure out how to dodge.

 

[Chalo]

That's a pretty typical lifespan for hunter gatherers with zero connection to civilization in an extremely difficult environment.

They aren't dying from obesity, heart disease, or type 2 diabetes though. All the things that civilized man can't seem to figure out how to dodge.

But because they don't live that long, we don't know whether they'd suffer any or all those problems if they did live long.

Routinely living into what we consider old age is largely a civilized man problem. It's difficult for me to indict the diets associated with long life, in favor of diets associated with lives that are-- as Hobbes put it-- nasty, brutish, and short. At best it would be founded on pure conjecture.

 

[tomjasz]

Um, yes. Steak tartar and raw milk from a properly run dairy is considered uber healthy by some.
There’s always someone that knows better, or more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maasai_people#Diet

That's the basis for the maasai tribe's diet. Milk, cow's blood, and meat.. and sometimes, vegetables for decoration. Unless they end up living in modernity. Then they start eating grains and corn just like most people.

Their health results are pretty amazing. But consider that these people have lived under evolutionary pressure and probably adapted to this diet over a really long period of time. Not so much with us city dwellers..

Almost complete absence of cavities and wildly low cholesterol is an interesting contrast to what McDougall and other zealots believe.

Um, I visited several tribal groups for permission in 1999 while on a plant hunt in eastern Africa, Namibia, South Africa, and Rowanda. I guarantee you wouldn't want their level of health and life. The dangers of Google. We too easily become experts but know none of the nuances behind the stories. I still find it curious that Vegans are zealots, but meatheads are enlightened. :lol: Almost true, but you get my drift.

 

[neptronix]

Um, I visited several tribal groups for permission in 1999 while on a plant hunt in eastern Africa, Namibia, South Africa, and Rowanda. I guarantee you wouldn't want their level of health and life. The dangers of Google. We too easily become experts but know none of the nuances behind the stories. I still find it curious that Vegans are zealots, but meatheads are enlightened. :lol: Almost true, but you get my drift.

Yep, their level of life sucks. However they are not dropping dead from eating meat. In other ways, their health is much better than ours, especially considering the adverse conditions. It's worth taking into consideration. How can those of us in modernity reap some of those benefits?

maybe not having access to our garbage foodstuffs and being active is a good idea..

Actually meatheads can get just as religious as vegans can get. I prefer to come to my own conclusions and not get involved in tribes or their rigid beliefs.
..or use strawman arguments..

 

[Matt Gruber]

Here is the diet i ended up with:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxjHlbum394

If you liked the above 20 min video, but would like a lot more detail, watch this long one :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWavdmw3rgw

 

[Cephalotus]

I'm 41 now and my plan is to be able to do intensive sports like badminton or volleyball into my 60s and moderate sports like biking, swimming, running and hiking into my 90s, if I life that long. I also hope to avoid cancer and dementia.

It is not only how old you get but how you get old and I see many bad examples and just a few good ones.

Important to me is lots of movement, especially because I have a job where I sit most of my time. I walk often, ride my bikes which includes own movement despite having motors inside them, work in my garden, go hiking and so on. Add to that some real sport where I get sweaty 3-4 times a week.

When I was younger I ate whatever I liked and plenty of it, now this is not possible any more, because I would quickly get to fat by doing so.
At 182cm my weight as an adult varied been between 68kg (after 3 weeks walking through the Sahara) and 89kg, when I was and felt really overweight.
Today I try to keep it between 75-77kg, which sadly needs some "counting" of calories. If I get over 80kg, which still happens, I count calories and try to loose it again over 2-3 months. Loosing calories gives me (moderate) hunger.

my #1 "trick" is to avoid large amounts of industrial sugar which is not as easy as it sounds. Until a few years ago I drank lots of soft drinks like Coca Cola / Fanta and became addicted. I mostly gave up on those. They are maybe the #1 posion in the modern world. I drink them now maybe 3-4 times a year.

I now drink mostly tea, sometimes a mix of apple juice and carbonated water (don't know the English word) or just tap water.

I don't have a special diet.

I try to eat as much protein as needed, which is not difficult in modern times, but not much more. I'm not interested in huge muscle built up, the amount of muscles I have comes from my sports and activities and is just fine.

I don't care about low carb or low fat. Low carb works nice for obese people whow already have problems with insulin and their blood sugar to loose weight quickly, but many low carb diets like Atkins increase your chances of getting ill when you get older.

I believe the quality of your carbs and fats is much more important than the ratio between both.

I now try to eat not to much meat and if I eat meat I prefer to buy it from sources where animals are treated well (this costs around 3-4 times as much as the cheap meat), I eat around 500g meat per weak, which is half the average of a typical German.

I eat around 300g fish per weak, mostly fat fish like salmon. This has lots of good omega 3. I try to buy fish from organic fish farms which costs about 2-3 times as much as cheaper fish.

For carbs I eat whole grain bread (thankfully Germany has an excellent bread culture), potatoes, rice, noodles, etc. Rice and potatoes my not be perfect, but I don't need it to be "perfect".
I also eat significant amounts of sugar from fruits. I eat around 5-10 portions of fruits and vegetables a day, mostly organic, some from my own small garden. I eat them because I like them, not because I need to.

Add to that a significant amount of nuts, some lentils, beans, etc... and a small amount of eggs and chease and very little milk and butter...

Sometimes I eat stuff "invented" for vegans like humus or soy products. Some of that food tastes quite well. I don't eat anything I do not like to eat.
So far I can not remember a single food product that causes me health problems if I eat it from time to time.

I also eat some sweets from time to time, mainly icecream, but I try to treat them as sweets, not as food. So don't eat them to fight the hunger, but eat them for enjoyment.

My weight fluctuates, especially in times when I add to much chocolate or to much icecream to my diet for longer periods. It does happen. When trying to get back to my normal weight again I get hungry because of the deficit on calories, but it works.

I don't know of any magic diet where you can stuff huge amounts of kcal into your body, loose weight and feel healthy. Losing significant amounts of weight is always related to moderate hunger for me.

As I said I'm 41, 182cm and actully my weight is 77kg. This translates to a BMI of 23
The better ABSI *) which includes the age, gender and waist size (80cm for me) is 0.0728. Only 2% of the (American) male population my age has a better aBSI and this is with me doing nothing spectacular, just eating "normal", sitting around most of my days and doing some sport (6 hours per week) and exercise.

All my health paramaters today are fine (knocking on wood!) and I'm still be able to do my sports like badmington without having problems with any joints. It is my plan to keep it that way as long as possible.

In the end you need luck, too, but many healty problems are manmade because people don't move, don't sweat and eat mostly shit. This works fine when you are 20, but not when you are over 40.

The other aspect of a diet is sustainability.

Producing meat and airy products has a huge impact on the enviroment and meat production is often absolutly unethical. Pigs are more intelligent than dogs and nobody ever would treat their dogs like the same people accept to treat pigs. Why? Just because the meat from those sad animals is perversly cheap?

A recent study **) said that it would be sustainable if every person in the world on average would eat 7g/day meat from pigs, 7g/day from beef and 29g/day from poultry.

At around 500g/week I still eat more meat. Nobody is perfect...

I do not want to missionate anyone about which or how many carbs, protein or fat they should eat. In the end it is better for my pension when lots of people (in my country) die earlier than they need to because of all the shit they eat.
They only thing I wish is that people would care more about the amount and kind of cheap meat they consume. But I didn't care much about that, too, when I was younger. :-(

---

*) http://www.absi-calculator.com/

**) https://www.thelancet.com/commissions/EAT

or https://endokrinologie.bayern/service/absi.html

Translation: This sentence at the end means that 2% of the male population of my age have a the same or a better ABSI than I (afaik the numbers are from US Americans, not Europeans):

"...Das bedeutet, 2% der Bevölkerung hat denselben oder einen niedrigeren ABSI-Wert als Sie..."

 

[Cephalotus]

blueberries?

Yea I say blueberries are good based on what I know about God. God make humans and he intended them to wander around all day and look for stuff to eat. Nuts, berry's, fruit, bugs? Never tried bugs but I like blueberries. Look for the colorful sweet stuff. That's why God made poison plants taste bad.

So eat colorful vegetables.

This idea of working all day for money so we can buy food is not healthy. Better for health to walk around and look for stuff to eat.

The blueberries god (or evolution) created look and taste quite different compared to the blueberrys humans made which you buy today in the supermarket. A sweet and large watermelon has nothing in common with the wild version, a wild carrot is a quite bad tasting small root and looks very different to a modern orange carrot.

So the paleo diet is quite a fantasy in my opinion. Most Humans in that times rarely ate meat and most of the meat they ate has been carrion. They didn't eat large eggs daily (because eggs from wild birds usually only exist in spring and are quite difficult to find) and they didn't eat meat from pigs or cattle grown up in stables feed with high protein concentrated food. A wild salmon has almost no fat, a salmon from aquafarming has significant amounts of (good) fat.

In the end we do not even know if their diet helps against common deseases of the old in our time like cancer, metabolic syndrom or Alzheimer, because when you reached 50 years in those times you had already been a geriatric.

I don't say "paleo" (= huge amounts of meat) is bad for you (it is for the planet), I'm not an expert on that matter. It's obviously a diet for people that like to eat huge amounts of meat, but this has little to nothing to do what Homo sapiens ate 10.000 years ago (except some tribes in arctic regions). Neither the meat nor the fruits and vegetables are similar to what those Homo sapiens ate.

What you propably can conclude from the evolution of Homo sapiens is that sugar is something very rare and we crave for it. (Sweet fruits like our suermarket apples, pears or bananas didn't exist in that time, all of those are human creations) For ancient Homo sapiens it was simply impossible to get the amount of sugar that you get today when drinking 1l of Coca Cola for example.

 

[neptronix]

my #1 "trick" is to avoid large amounts of industrial suggar which is not as easy as it sounds. Until a few years ago I drank lots of soft drinks like Coca Cola / Fanta, but mostly gave up on those. They are maybe the #1 posion in the modern world. I drink them maybe 3-4 times a year.

I believe that large amounts of sugar is responsible for metabolic syndrome and type 2 diabetes for the people who did not inherit it. Sugar is often used as a troubled person's first drug experience. Large amounts have quantified effects on mood chemicals and hormones.

Me and my wife are both ex-sugar addicts who grew up in abusive households. Sugar was my gateway drug. And i believe overconsumption of it resulted in our metabolisms becoming dysfunctional to the point where only a low carb diet worked as a means to lose weight.

Sugar is indeed a villain.

I don't care about low carb or low fat. Low carb works nice for obese people whow already have problems with Insulin and their blood sugar to loose weight quickly, but many low carb diets like Atkins increase your chances of getting ill when you get older.

Can you clarify the 'increases your chances of getting ill' part? We have a local keto meetup and there's a couple people in their 60's who have been on the diet for decades. They report excellent health. Before starting that diet, i looked for long term reports for weeks. I found nothing but positive reports, and some instances of showing better than ideal bloodwork.

My favorite long term low carber is Steve Cooksey AKA the diabetes warrior. The guy is in his 50's by now and has been doing low carb since 2009. Nothing but excellent results, and he's off all his diabetes medications ( including insulin ) and has lost over 100lbs. In addition, he's pretty damn fit these days. Sounds like a good result to me.

I believe the quality of your carbs and fats is much more important than the ratio between both.

I tried that approach. Both as a vegetarian, and a meat eater.
I removed sugar from my diet, unless it was from fruit. I ate organic brown rice as a base carb and removed wheat from my diet. Ate a significant amount of vegetables. What happened? i continued to gain weight and have an out of control appetite.

I did feel slightly better. However when i limited carb intake to 20g/day, the effect on me was radical. Life changing.

My weight fluctuates, especially in times when I add to much chocalte or to much icecream to my diet for longer periods. It does happen. When trying to get back to my normal weight again I'm hungry because of the deficit on calories, but it works.

You have a moderate amount of insulin resistance then. A typical level for a ~40 year old.

I don't know of any Magic diet where you can stuff huge amounts of kcal into your body, loose weight and feel healthy. Losing significant amounts of weight is always related to moderate hunger for me.

Me either, but let me know if you find one.

The other aspect is sustainability.
Producing meat and airy productshas a huge Impact on the eniroment and meat production is often absolutly unethical. Pigs are more intelligent than dogs and nobody ever would treat their dogs like the same people accept to treat pigs. Why? Just because it is perversly cheap?

Meat is not all that cheap compared to carbohydrate food. Cow flatulence makes up approximately 18% of our methane emissions on this planet... but did you know that swamplands, rice fields, and landfills make up another 33%?
..and also, growing vegetables in a modern way involves continuous mass death for rodents, insects, worms, nearby aquatic life, birds, and organisms that reside in the soil.

There is no death-free meal. Enjoy your position at the top of the food chain, as the most intelligent and capable organism on this planet.

But do your best to reduce harm to others while doing so. I avoid pork and chicken myself and mostly eat cow. The reason is just math. When 1 cow is killed, it contains almost enough calories to feed a human being for a year. A chicken contains enough calories to feed someone for a day or two. So you'll have to kill about 300 times more living organisms. I prefer to keep my indirect kill count as low as possible.

I do not want to missionate anyone about which or how many carbs, protein or fat they should eat. In the end it is better for my pension when lots of people die earlier than they need to because of the shit they eat.
They only thing I wish is that people would care more about the amount and kind of cheap meat they consume. But I didn't care much about that, too, when I was younger. :-(

Haha, i've had that thought too, that our dietary recommendations and food system in the USA resemble something like a soft population control technique. High amounts of carbohydrates in the diet lead to a host of disorders, including fertility problems for men and women.

There are many women who go on a ketogenic diet in order to reproduce. These women are typically significantly overweight and sick. Unfortunately after the child is born, many go back to their bad habits because they never appreciated the health benefits of staying away from high carb loads for life.

If someone at the top of the power chain must engage in some form of population control, there are better ways to do it without causing needless suffering. Type 2 diabetes is an insanely expensive disease and today's treatment strings people along. It makes up a major % of the cost of a socialized health system.

 

[Matt Gruber]

Nep
did you ever try the starch based diet? The potato is the #1 food to make you feel full. and sweet potatoes, then corn, but rice is not so good. With rice, an hour later i'm hungry. I rarely eat rice, but it is great in a soup to absorb water. And add potatoes to feel satisfied.
The McDougall diet is a starch diet, that is why it works so well, and that success is why i'm on it. And why i posted 2 videos.

 

[neptronix]

did you ever try the starch based diet? The potato is the #1 food to make you feel full. and sweet potatoes, then corn, but rice is not so good. With rice, an hour later i'm hungry. I rarely eat rice, but it is great in a soup to absorb water. And add potatoes to feel satisfied.
The McDougall diet is a starch diet, that is why it works so well, and that success is why i'm on it. And why i posted 2 videos.

No, but i ate a 'good carbs' diet for 1.5 years, which turns into glucose in my body, which i cannot metabolize.
Starchy foods also turn into glucose, which i cannot metabolize.
GI index of starchy foods is similar to the 'good carbs' i was convinced i should be eating.

I'd only try it if i was trying to gain weight for some reason. Because >30g of net carbohydrates per day ramps up my appetite and fat storage.

 

[Matt Gruber]

Nep
another Q
have you ever timed your "eat" to "poop" time?
i learned this is very important! to not be too long. As, if crap stays in the large intestine too long, WASTE will be absorbed! 1-3 days is normal. shorter the better! as little as 1 day.
mine is 36 hours.
all you do is eat 3-4 ounces of cooked beets, and when you poop red, there it is.
The immune system takes out bacteria, cancer cells, etc, and dumps this WASTE into the large intestine, where it is supposed to go in the toilet. (soon) not later, or it will be absorbed!

 

[Cephalotus]

Me and my wife are both ex-sugar addicts who grew up in abusive households. Sugar was my gateway drug...

I was addicted to soft drinks. Thankfully the addiction is not as hard wired to your brain as other drug addictions, so getting rid of it seems to be much easier.

Can you clarify the 'increases your chances of getting ill' part? We have a local keto meetup and there's a couple people in their 60's who have been on the diet for decades. They report excellent health. Before starting that diet, i looked for long term reports for weeks. I found nothing but positive reports, and some instances of showing better than ideal bloodwork.

I'm not an expert and I read mostly German stuff and obviously not everything that is available.

Not sure if this is helpful, but here is a link: https://www.zentrum-der-gesundheit.de/low-carb-schwindel-ia.html

There are cross links to further sites in English, which I didn't read, for example:

http://www.artandscienceoflowcarb.com/

The German site does not say that low carb is bad per se.

- It works well for many perosn to loose weight
- For many People the diet is easy to establish, because for them it tastes well
- usually it does have positive effects as low cholestorol
- there are healthy low carb diets

BUT:

- For many low carb diets people eat huge amounuts of meat, red meat and processed meat and those have negative health effects incl significant increased risc of cancer
- many people on low carb eat to many proteins which causes faster cell aging in General and hase negative effects for example on your kidneys

My conclusion is, that there is no need for *most* people to eat low carb. It just gives you quicker weight loss results, works better for obese People (for loosing weight) and People like the diet because they like to eat proteins. Proteins (and to some amount fibre) stop your hunger, carbs and not fat are much less efficient.

There are very healthy low carb diets out there, but those are low carb, low meat diets, wheer you get most of your fats and proteins from some fish, nuts, legumes and vegetables.

There are also healthy low fat diets and very healthy diets including bot carbs and fats. That's what I prefer, because it gives the most variation.

You say that you are a special case because of your Insuline reistance and this could be perfectly true from what I read so low carb is waht works for you. But there is some risc, that low carb + lots of meat has negative side effects as shown above.

A high meta diet obviously is not good for sustainability and if your meat is the standard cheap meat from industralized mass meat production it has ethical side effects. But this is only up to you if you accept them or not, I just want to mention it and I decided for myself that I rather prefer social animals that are more intelligent than dogs to be traeted well.

This meat comes at a higher price, I pay something around 30-40€ for 1kg. "Cheap meat" costs much less.

I'm not perfect or dogmatic. If I eat meat at the canteen at work it is cheap meat. There I have no choice other than to eat no meat at all.

Sales of "organic meat" (correct word?) is only between 1.2% and 1.8% in Germany. This is still a very niche product. I try to vote with my wallet.

It is easy for my, because I earn enough money and most food is really cheap over here. Even if I buy that expensive stuff like "organic" meat or "organic" salmon from auqafarms and lots of fruits and vegetables my budget for eating is still just about 10% of my income. It is a more more difficult choice for people with lower income, because people over here do not WANT to spend money on good Food. They prefer to spend their money on holiday flights, the next iPhone or whatever stuff they "need".

The French or Italiens seem to be wiser than the Germans when it comes to food.

Many US Americans in my (probaly biased from media) view are in deep shit when it comes to food. Your food industry is much more "advanced", you generally do not like any regulations and you feed even your children that shit at school canteens (if that is true?).

It can take some time to appreciate real food again. Once I made an experiment eating no sugar (except "natural sugar" in fruits etc.) for some weeks.

Result was that many fruits (i.e. apples) tasted way too sweet and I even din't like my first icecream (I'm a icecream fan) because it was way to sweet. I was able to taste sugar that is added to certain products like salami. It started to taste sweeter than I would like it.
This effect vanished quickly again after eating some sugar for some days, but it was quite intersting to experience it.

Imagine what all that sugar and highly processed fast food and all that additional flavors does to the eating habit of children?

Sometimes I read discussion about healthy Food (like now) and most people seam to care AFTER the got significantly ill. I asuume while eating shit in your 20s or 30s does not cause much immediate harm (if you don't overtake it with kcal, you can get obese even at low Age), but it could aleady harm your Body.

If you start eating healthy after geting diabetes 2 it is better than not eating healthy at all, but wouldn't have been wiser to start eating healthy at 30? Wouldn't it be the wisest to give your children healthy food and educate them on nutrition so most of them never develop a habit of eating mainly junk?
Hell, it would have been much better for me if someone would have informed me what Coca Cola does to the human Body when I was 15. I never started smoking because I was shown Pictures of lungs in school, I never became a drug or alcohol addict because I was educated about the consequences, but they never told me about the effects of Coca Cola & Co. I had to learn them from myself. Thankfully/hopefully not to late.

My favorite long term low carber is Steve Cooksey AKA the diabetes warrior. The guy is in his 50's by now and has been doing low carb since 2009. Nothing but excellent results, and he's off all his diabetes medications ( including insulin ) and has lost over 100lbs. In addition, he's pretty damn fit these days. Sounds like a good result to me.

- What you eat has a significant impact on your health
- How much you move has a significant Impact on your health
- there are other effects like sleeping well, low stress levels, low pollution/poison exposition, a positive attitude to life in general and finally also some luck

I tried that approach. Both as a vegetarian, and a meat eater.
I removed sugar from my diet, unless it was from fruit. I ate organic brown rice as a base carb and removed wheat from my diet. Ate a significant amount of vegetables. What happened? i continued to gain weight and have an out of control appetite.

I did feel slightly better. However when i limited carb intake to 20g/day, the effect on me was radical. Life changing.

This is possible. Thankfully for meI never needed to try out low fat or low carb for myself. I just eatthe typicl amounts of proteins (no counting needed) and don't care about the amount of fat and carb. If I want to loose weight I just cut back on both carbs and fat, mostly by removing the tasty but not so ideal stuff like icecream and eating at a maybe 500kcal/day deficit. Sport helps, too.

I loose maybe 2kg/month that way, but I don't need to lose huge amounts.

Low carb will be much more efficient to loose weight quickly.

Low fat is usually not so recommend those days.

Eating vegetarianand heating healthy is a bit more complicated, eating vegan and healthy is very complicated. My girldfried is vegetarian and has to fight much more for losing weight and she is not so happy with that. But in ym opinion her diet is not ideal including to much sugar.
At the Moment she tries intermediate fastening, but it is to early to say anything about that. It's a new trend and maybe it is easier to build a calorie deficit when you don't have to count them every day

But loosing weight is not identical to beeing healthy. There is some correlation, but not 100%

You have a moderate amount of insulin resistance then. A typical level for a ~40 year old.

Only had a measurement on blood sugar and this is normal. I don't have a test whereblood sugar rise is measured after drinking Glucose. I asume I would have to pay for that myself, maybe I ask the next time.
When I'm not trieing to lose weight I do not experience hunger, beside the typical appetite of course.

So far I thought this is a normal behaviour of my Body. You get hungry if you have a calorie deficit.

I did another expriment a few years ago where I wasn't eating for 7 days. (just around 200kcal per day). People told me that there are so many effects like headache, a very hard 3rd day and afterwards euphoria and so on.
I was hungry at day one and I was hungry until day 7. No headache, no euphory, nothing but just being hungry. I did lose only 1kg, maybe because I did drink so much water.
At day 8 (after eating again at end of day 7) I run and I felt like 20 years old for whatever raeson. Great experience but only a 1 time experience. Two days later it was gone.

So maybe my body reacts differnt than the typical body. I assume everyone has to find out what works well and what doesn't.

Meat is not all that cheap compared to carbohydrate food.

Two years ago there was a public discussion on that topic when Aldi sold steak at 1.99 Euro for 600g (usual price is 2,79 Euro)

This 3.31€ to 4.65€ per kg (shit, just looked up the numbers and I didn't remember it was SO cheap, so I pay not 3-4 times more but around 10 times more for my "organic" steak)

Sure, flour or rice or noodles are cheaper per kcal, but do you think the Aldi price is okay for meat? How can you sell meat so incredible cheap?

Cow flatulence makes up approximately 18% of our methane emissions on this planet... but did you know that swamplands, rice fields, and landfills make up another 33%?

It's a complex topic. How many kcal are gloablly consumed from rice and how many from beef and dairy products.

Producing 1000kcal of meat takes significant more ground resources and water resources than 1000kcal fromplants (except some low kcal vegetables and fruits)

I linked the Lancet study on sustainability of food production

..and also, growing vegetables in a modern way involves continuous mass death for rodents, insects, worms, nearby aquatic life, birds, and organisms that reside in the soil.

If we would not feed as Mauch grain, maize and soy to our lifestock but eat it directly we could Switch the entire framing to organic farming without the need to cut down more rain forests. This would have a much greater positiv effect on greenhouse gas Emission than all "biofuels" produced and would have greater positive effects on ground water Pollution and death of insects and other animals.

Meat consumption is not "evil", There is room for cows feeding on alpine Meadows, there is room for poultry, eating some meat has benefits, but is the amount that is problematic.
A diet of let's say 2kg meat per week would destroy our ecosystems if 10 billion people would start to eat that way. Just something to consider, too.

There is no death-free meal. Enjoy your position at the top of the food chain, as the most intelligent and capable organism on this planet.

I think killing and eating animals is okay, but I see a great difference how we treat our pets and how we treat our cows and pigs and for me this should improve.
I also think that Homo sapains should not convert the entire biomass of the planet to ist own food chain. theer should be significant room for life on this planet outside our own consumption.
This is not the case today http://vaclavsmil.com/wp-content/uploads/TWFR-JanFeb2016-Harvesting-the-Biosphere.pdf

Haha, i've had that thought too, that our dietary recommendations and food system in the USA resemble something like a soft population control technique. High amounts of carbohydrates in the diet lead to a host of disorders, including fertility problems for men and women.

If People in Geramyn would eat well and if they would exercie more they would probably life 10 years longer on average. Hard to predict the effect on health care cost (about 50% of our health care cost is produced at the last year of life) but our Pension system would just collaps.

So my plan to "cheat" on the public Pension system is to retire when possible and than live long and healthy into my 90s

If someone at the top of the power chain must engage in some form of population control, there are better ways to do it without causing needless suffering. Type 2 diabetes is an insanely expensive disease and today's treatment strings people along. It makes up a major % of the cost of a socialized health system.

I agree. It is a "stupid" illness. Like lung cancer from air pollution or metabolic syndrom because you just don't move.

 

[Matt Gruber]

Cephalotus
Thank you for a very fair and balanced summary of healthy eating :thumb:
In my family, when i was little, my Dad would point to a fat guy and say "He needs to push away from the table and find something else to do" simple advice that worked for my family; i never got over 154 lbs (70kg)
I've heard my friends Mom's say "eat something, it will make you feel better" bad advice, they are all fat.

 

[Matt Gruber]

So as an experiment, i'm trying a low fat diet. Seems fair since i started a year ago with that high fat keto type diet. I'm inspired by those twin girls, 25, that wrote a book, "The clear skin diet". I never had acne, but those girls went from ugly to beautiful, and were, before, on the keto diet and got bad acne, and were eating peanut butter on toast for breakfast. Hey, i've been eating lots of PB, this may not be a good idea long term. What does fat do internally if it can give you acne? And, BTW, 80-90% of my pimples cleared up on my medium fat McDougall type diet.
So, until now, i've been eating PB, corn chips, chocolate, and nuts, about 500 cal/day.
So yesterday i substituted 1.5oz (dry) pasta w/tom paste, and 1 pear for all those high fat foods. I was expecting to be hungry all day, but i didn't feel like eating dinner until 5:45 instead of 5pm. So i'm going to do this until i run out of pasta and pears Still eating the same starch based meals that i was before, except no PB corn chips or chocolate. Well, maybe a few chips, the bag is open and i don't want them to go stale
Update: Day 2 no PB, chocolate, not even chips! Just 1 teaspoon of flax in my oatmeal as they say some fat is needed to absorb vitamins. So i see on the chip bag, it takes 10 chips for one 130cal serving. So i'll add 3 chips to lunch. The chocolate says 6 squares is one 220c serving, i'll have 1 square after dinner. This is to be sure i don't go too low on fat, and to use up what i have. Before i buy more, I'll look up all the food i eat and see if they have any fat. I see potatoes have 0, but oatmeal has 2.5 grams. I recall the olive oil salesman saying to put oil on everything so you can absorb vitamins. Great sales pitch, but i'd rather eat 3 crunchy chips, or 1 square of chocolate. Before i started my healthy eating quest, i'd use 3-5 48oz bottles of oil a year. Now ZERO. That oil salesman had me sold until early last year.
Update #2. Day 3. i guess calories from fat is in the 3-15% range. no problem, but i do eat 4 meals a day. A 2nd lunch 3 hrs after the 1st. Would get too hungry on just 3. The girls say 4-6 weeks to see the benefits. I'm not expecting any, but the food tastes very good, so why eat unhealthy food?
Update #3. By the 4th day i was hungry all the time. I had taken out 400-500c and added back 150, so no surprise there. #1 cause of being hungry is not eating enough. So i've added back half the PB, chips, and chocolate; so far so good.

 

[wturber]

Lots of fad baloney in the diet industry. Unless you are trying to deal with an actual ailment or medical condition (like, perhaps, diabetes) the human body is pretty resilient. I've concluded the following, non-ground breaking things about eating.

Rule 1: Eat whole foods and don't overcook it. Go heavy on vegetables, greens and veggies with lots of color. Add in some fresh fruit. Nothing wrong with eating meat, but you really don't need that much of it.

Rule 2: Don't eat more than you need. Just look in the mirror and you'll know if you are eating too much (assuming you aren't anorexic.)

Rule 3: Minimize the consumption of heavily processed/manufactured foods. In the U.S. this especially means to take a good hard look at how much sugar and high fructose corn syrup is in the foods you eat. This is really just a re-statement of Rule 1, but from a reversed point of view.

Rule 4: You can eat just about anything if you just don't overdo it. Ya dig potato chips? It's not a good food, but if you only eat junk occasionally, it is unlikely to hurt you. Same with soda pop. Sure, its horrible food. But if you aren't drinking every day and you are active, no big deal.

Rule 5: Stay moderately active, and focus on building a fair amount of muscle mass. This obviously isn't diet advice at all. But focusing on diet without making sure that you are getting enough exercise is just silly.

Stay active. Eat mostly fresh, whole foods. Don't eat too much. It's really pretty simple.

 

[Ianhill]

The big shocker is we lose more weight through our breath than any other means and really we are heat sources that require energy, differing foods deliver better efficiency for our systems but its not as easy as a balanced diet if you sit in a chair all day but equally a burger driven athlete will not be a good idea we need differing sources of food to maintain a health balance diet Sewell as a healthy lifestyle.

It's no voodoo science anymore like days of witches coldrens, don't read one time published study's that have no agreement and take it as gospel there's alot of people making money in the human well being industry, diet pills for example are a fraud if I eat the pill and loads of food then do nothing I will be fat with time same with the climate there's a lot of money being made with skewed science, so a few have an incentive to hide the truth from the masses that's how governments and alike work the world is corrupt and the data is highly flawed in many areas through desperation of those counting money at their castles.

There are massive problems with our system antibiotics in meat for example drop spraying pesticides that can be cancergenic in themselfs so I'm not saying it's perfect but be wise eat healthy produce even fruit and veg can be a killer so is sitting in front of a tv all day without exercise mentally or physically.

 

[Ianhill]

If everyone in the world got skinny over say a year the co2 levels would be higher, 30% of humans are over weight and on average it's around 1 stone so there's around 8 billion people and 30% of that is around 2.5billion people with on average 1 stone to lose so you could say the human total figure obesity is around 2.5billion stone or 17.5 million ton.

Here's the kicker 84% of that weight is released as carbon dioxide and the remaining 16% is water absorbed by the body so if we take 17.5 for the total weight and get 84% we have around 14.7 million ton of carbon dioxide locked up in the human race as obesity and if we lost this weight over a year it would be the same to the environment as a mild volcano.

Don't think we are carbon capture devices we live with a net loss we breath all the time but the vegitation absorbs some along with the sea and that's were our environment becomes full of it from our uncontrolled burning of fossil fuels that release gigatons for hundreds of years, so slowly temps rise and we lose things like corals, marshes and glaciers thaw releasing 10× worse methane and we have a runaway green house effect that needs some method of cooling which will take along time and a stop to human influence be it through us changing or our demise.

 

[Matt Gruber]

Thanks for the comments!
There are convincing stories about healthy eating. But, many are just clever marketing. So as i learned this, i decided to look at studies said to prove it. Many studies are just that clever marketing again. So the task became more difficult. There are hundreds of faked studies every year. So, then i turned to old, successful Dr's that claimed to cure people. First i look for things that they are selling. Books are good, i can get them at the library. Videos are great; do they reveal their method of success? It is hard to find Dr's that cure people. Most just push pills. Next i look for credible methods, for me, based on my own experience. I've learned that genes pay a key role in what works. So seeing someone else claim a food is good or bad, has only a random chance i'd get the same results. I also look at family history; my Dad lived to 96, was it genes or what he ate? Or didn't eat. So i watched 200 hours of videos, and came up with 3-6 Dr's that match at least on most things. Nobody agrees on everything 8) They all have studies that prove it, but the studies alone are not good enough.
And then i test each food. For example i eliminated potatoes and bread for ~6 weeks and then slowly re-introduced them. They are fine for me, but many people report trouble.

 

[tomjasz]

So as an experiment, i'm trying a low fat diet.

Careful the food corporations are making all sorts of low fat packaged foods. STUFFED with sugars!

 

[Matt Gruber]

Careful the food corporations are making all sorts of low fat packaged foods. STUFFED with sugars!
[/quote]

I don't buy any of that stuff :lol: I can make my own. Today i made a 2nd bowl of oatmeal, the old fashioned slow cook, and added 1 teaspoon of sugar and 2 of cocoa! was a treat
I don't see any evidence that 1 teaspoon of sugar is bad; it provides 15 calories and no fat. But, i agree, they would put 10x that in anything they sell, and that is 150 calories
So i just checked my weight and it dropped too low, just 1 lb, the Q is, how should i get the 1# back? What should i eat? I actually need those 150 calories.
I have:
sugar, peanut butter, chocolate, or i could eat a 3rd potato.
EDIT
Dr Esselstyn says to avoid saturated fat, and to eat larger portions to avoid losing weight. also snacks, i think the corn chips with only 1 gram of saturated fat/oz would qualify. not the PB or choc. too much sat fat. he is talking about reversing heart disease, and how to stay healthy
FAQ: http://www.dresselstyn.com/site/faq/

 

[neptronix]

If everyone in the world got skinny over say a year the co2 levels would be higher, 30% of humans are over weight and on average it's around 1 stone so there's around 8 billion people and 30% of that is around 2.5billion people with on average 1 stone to lose so you could say the human total figure obesity is around 2.5billion stone or 17.5 million ton.

But that's a one time emission.

Your metabolic rate lowers, the lower your weight is. Which means less respirations. Which means less co2 emissons from your lungs. It also means you need less food, and food has petroleum inputs all throughout the food chain today. Your heart rate also goes down and blood pressure improves as fat is no longer squishing your veins. Your cartilage lets out a sigh of relief as the friction on it has reduced.

My 'maintenance calories' at 270lbs was around 2500 calories. Today, it is around 2100 calories at 190lbs.
Eating 400 calories less per day multiplied by ~7 billion people would have a gigantic positive net effect on all kinds of things.

This is actually something that trips up people who need to lose a LOT of weight. What is a 10% caloric deficit is a moving target. Lose ~60lbs and a 10% deficit becomes your baseline caloric needs. Tons of people don't calculate this and then come to forums asking why their weight loss stalled..