E bike usage scenario advice

[Keiffith]

I guess i could start with the fact I am a mech and electrically inclined person (machinist by trade). I want A bike that does 20-25mph with little assistance carrying a 160lb rider than can hold an additional 40lbs without affecting speed.

I'm looking to use an ebike as a primary means of transportation an I live in an urban city but by 1890 standards.

We have "roads" (if that's what your want to call them) that are very rough and uneven. Making a standard "rigid" e bike not a good choice even just for summer, let alone our winters (we almost got 200in of snow last season).


With all this mind, I feel my best option is a small EEB, like a qulbix 76. My only issue is the barrier of entry, since I can really only budget about $1500 to start.

So I have figured that purchasing a qulbix 76 clone from alibaba would be my best option. I would get it without the battery, and purchase a high quality battery sourced here in the US, then slowly upgrade my clone to "genuine" parts. Especially since I'll want cheap components to thrash in our snowy, Salty winter.


Does this sound like A solid plan? Thanks for any input

 

[wturber]

Well if you want a commuter, you are on a budget, you have crappy weather that's going to be hard on components, and your area has poor roads, I'd be inclined to find a second hand mountain bike with full suspension and a relatively large triangle. That said, the bike you think you want certainly looks like more fun.

You don't mention what kind of range you think you need and the specifics of how you'll use the bike. For instance if commuting to school or work, is there a place to store and charge the bike? That's important because range affects the battery choice and the battery can be a big part of the bike budget. Also, how nice or cool the bike looks could be a negative if it thieves will have regular opportunities to liberate it.

 

[motomech]

Every chance I get, I tell folks that the best value in Ebikes are used mountain bikes. They are continously evolving and a model that is only several years old might well be considered obsolete by the hard core riders. Actually, models going back to the early 2000's have what it takes to make a great street Ebike. 4 or 5 inches of well dampened suspension is plenty when one is dealing w/ frost heaves or pot-holes and not 6 ft. drop offs. The disc brakes that stopped a trail bike in 2006 still work just fine on the street in 2018. And w/ the trend moving to bigger wheels for the trail, the used mountain bike w/ 26 inch wheels is yester-year's tech and are un-loved. Many would argue that for the street, there's more varity and value in tires in the 26" size.
In my neck of the woods, I've been able to score some great deals as many folks buy a mountain bike, take it out once or twice, realize how much work it is and park it in the garage where it will sit till they come to grips that they will probably never ride it again. Both of my bikes, were purchased in mint cond. for about half of MSRP.
The Holy Grail of ebike donors are the full suspension models that still have enough space in the frame triangle to place the battery. They are getting rare now, but bikes from the mid 2000's like the Giant Anthem, the Rocky Mountain Slayer and Edge and a number of Treks are still out there.
Your performance wants are moderate and and the, what I call the UEB(universal E Bike) configuration of the 5 Kg. geared rear hub motor will be the easiest and most reliable route to go. Motors like the BPM from BMS Battery or the MAC from Em3ev. Both those suppliers can supply you w/ an Li-Ion (lithium-Ion), "plug and play battery pack and you will be well on your way to E-cycling bliss.
A 2003 Rocky Mountain Edge I built around 2010

 

[Keiffith]

I appreciate the responses

Finding a high end, used mountain bike in my area would be pretty difficult, and I worry about the "salt spray" the bike will be covered in with an exposed battery box.

The other issue is I would like to fit a studded MC rear tire for winter and I'm pretty certain most mountain bike frames will not support that kind of tire.

Range I will need is max 20miles round trip on relatively flat ground. The farthest destination I would commute to is 5.5 miles and I would readily be able to charge my battery there.

The main reason for me to go for an EEB is the ability to flip from a "light electric motocross" tire and wheel wise to a "light super moto".

 

[motomech]

I was just pointing something close to you you can afford.
Well, you should have plenty of time to plan out your ebike because $1500 ain't even close to what you will need to spend.

 

[dogman dan]

You got a dilemma all right. You need the best, but $1500 wont do it. Some of us are lucky, and live where quality used MTB's are common.

Though a really unpopular suggestion on this forum, you might need to look at something gas. Like a 150cc scooter that you can get in good running condition for a $1500 budget now. This is assuming you are not 12 years old, visually handicapped, or lost your license in other ways.

On your budget you can make a commuter bike that will last a year. It starts with a cheap ass MTB, with full suspension. The frame may last much longer, but you will want a lot of better stuff on it soon, starting with the saddle and the crank.


But scooter, or e bike, that snow season sounds impossible to me. That salt will get into your battery and other parts of the e bike eventually. Thats the main reason I say, "for one year". Most I know of that really ride snow season go to a tadpole trike for the snow season, then take heroic measures to keep the controller, all wiring plugs, etc dry and clean.


Additionally, though a good set of panniers can hold 40 pounds, I can definitely assure you that if you load up an MTB, it will scare the hell out of you to go 30 mph. It is a big load, and calls for a longtail cargo bike, or at least a bob trailer. So look into cheap bob trailers asap, as an upgrade. Even with the trailer, 20 mph will be your comfy speed with that much load. What you want calls for a big trike, or a longtail cargo bike, AND, slower speeds.


Sorry if this sounds so harsh, but what you want can be done, I'm just saying its scary to load up and ride fast. But you can cheaply make a commuter that carries you and a light load, and goes 30 mph with out being a scary ride.


This shows what I commuted on for several years, 15 miles one way, two charges a day. I kept the panniers mostly full of light stuff, like the coats I needed that morning, and a small grocery run on the way home. When I loaded up 40 pounds in those panniers, it rode for shit, but could go 15 mph for as long as my ass could take it.


Originally I used a cheap ass mtb, till I got the giant. The cheap bike wore out in a year, and I went through two of em.

I would not suggest a front motor, as you see in the picture. Front motor only if the forks are steel. Battery in the metal box, high and dry as possible. The rack braced with additional metal, providing a mount for a very wide soft fender.

 

[Keiffith]

I do not include a battery in my $1500 budget.

I do not have a license, hence why I want an E bike.
Lots of people locally ride around on 2 stroke converted bikes, which are technically supposed to be registered and you need a license for, but the police don't bother them.

I want to ride the Grey area of a bike over the 750w limitation but governed to 20mph.

 

[Keiffith]

I would go with a mid level full suspension mountain bike if I could find one with room for a decent sized battery. But I couldn't seam to find any. Plus I would like to keep the battery out of the elements.

And I know the clone will have many components that last only a year, but I would plan on doing upgrades as that happens.

In winter I would do a mild tear down, wash the bike up, and lube everything properly as to prevent corrosion.

The bike would only be left outside chained up in a public area for maximum an hour. It would come in with me at home and at work as theft is a serious issue where I live.

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

I think using an ebike specific frame is a better way to go now days than converting a used mtn bike.. mtn bikes are not designed for the extra weight, power and sustained high speeds like current ebike specific frames are .. many ppl built ebikes from mtn bikes previously because ebike specific frames did not come to market until relatively recently.. vector, electric enduro bike and other (stealth and qulbix) clones are really reasonably priced and made to fit large battery capacity and high power hub motors without needing modifications such as making battery enclosure, fitting torque arms, etc.. also maybe have a look at Seki bikes ebike, it fits in your budget for a complete ebike with or without battery (i do not own one but it seems like a pretty good value) : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=91469

 

[wturber]

I think using an ebike specific frame is a better way to go now days than converting a used mtn bike.. mtn bikes are not designed for the extra weight, power and sustained high speeds like current ebike specific frames are .. many ppl built ebikes from mtn bikes previously because ebike specific frames did not come to market until relatively recently.. vector, electric enduro bike and other (stealth and qulbix) clones are really reasonably priced and made to fit large battery capacity and high power hub motors without needing modifications such as making battery enclosure, fitting torque arms, etc.. also maybe have a look at Seki bikes ebike, it fits in your budget for a complete ebike with or without battery (i do not own one but it seems like a pretty good value) : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=91469

The OP is looking to go 20-25mph. He weighs 160 lbs and might want to carry up to 40 lbs of stuff. He only needs a range of about 20 miles- round trip. Nothing there suggest that he needs a high power hub motor or a large battery. Any well made bike frame should be able to deal with this. A heavy duty mountain bike frame should do this without breaking a sweat.

His special need is mostly that of dealing with harsh winters. And doing that successfully will probably come down to a matter of tire choice, good routine cleaning of the bike, and being willing to tough out the cold.

The Sekibike looks interesting, but it seems more like something designed to be an electric motorcycle first, and an e-bike pretty much in name only. I found only one bike in their pictures that was equipped with a derailer (looked like a three speed cluster). These bikes use motorcycle brakes. The battery box has huge letters cut out of its sides and is hardly weatherproof. The focus seems clearly on motorcycle like performance bikes, not on daily commuters. Nothing wrong with all that, but it doesn't seem in keeping with what the OP was asking for. OTOH, maybe the OP is asking for one thing but actually wants another...

 

[Keiffith]

I think using an ebike specific frame is a better way to go now days than converting a used mtn bike.. mtn bikes are not designed for the extra weight, power and sustained high speeds like current ebike specific frames are .. many ppl built ebikes from mtn bikes previously because ebike specific frames did not come to market until relatively recently.. vector, electric enduro bike and other (stealth and qulbix) clones are really reasonably priced and made to fit large battery capacity and high power hub motors without needing modifications such as making battery enclosure, fitting torque arms, etc.. also maybe have a look at Seki bikes ebike, it fits in your budget for a complete ebike with or without battery (i do not own one but it seems like a pretty good value) : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=91469

The OP is looking to go 20-25mph. He weighs 160 lbs and might want to carry up to 40 lbs of stuff. He only needs a range of about 20 miles- round trip. Nothing there suggest that he needs a high power hub motor or a large battery. Any well made bike frame should be able to deal with this. A heavy duty mountain bike frame should do this without breaking a sweat.

His special need is mostly that of dealing with harsh winters. And doing that successfully will probably come down to a matter of tire choice, good routine cleaning of the bike, and being willing to tough out the cold.

The Sekibike looks interesting, but it seems more like something designed to be an electric motorcycle first, and an e-bike pretty much in name only. I found only one bike in their pictures that was equipped with a derailer (looked like a three speed cluster). These bikes use motorcycle brakes. The battery box has huge letters cut out of its sides and is hardly weatherproof. The focus seems clearly on motorcycle like performance bikes, not on daily commuters. Nothing wrong with all that, but it doesn't seem in keeping with what the OP was asking for. OTOH, maybe the OP is asking for one thing but actually wants another...

Your correct about the seki bike. While they look nice, definitely don't think that are a right fit.

Their are 2 reasons that push me from a mountain bike to an eeb like the qulbix 76.

One is the battery/ controller protection from the salt spray.

Second is the ability to fit 19" MC dual sport tires of my choice and stud them for the winter, which will give me what I believe my best hope of handling the rough winters here without going down/getting stuck.

I personally never liked riding tall mountain bikes (26in) so I want 24" wheels and tires max as well, and there isn't any decent studded winter tire I could find in those sizes.

 

[-dg]

Their are 2 reasons that push me from a mountain bike to an eeb like the qulbix 76.

One is the battery/ controller protection from the salt spray.

Second is the ability to fit 19" MC dual sport tires of my choice and stud them for the winter, which will give me what I believe my best hope of handling the rough winters here without going down/getting stuck.

I personally never liked riding tall mountain bikes (26in) so I want 24" wheels and tires max as well, and there isn't any decent studded winter tire I could find in those sizes.

Bike height is controlled by the distance from the cranks to the seat, ie, the size of your legs, not the size of wheels. My 20" folder and my 700c road bike have the same saddle height from the ground because the cranks have to clear the ground which means the bottom bracket has to be the same height and since I'm the same height no matter which bike I ride the seat ends up in the same place.

I make this point because there are lots of tire choices including studded tires in 26" that would suit your needs. You will be much better off with 26" bike wheels and tires than trying to fit motorbike stuff.

As for salt spray, rinse the bike frequently and put a plastic bag over the battery and controller. If you get a gear motor and don't ride in the rain it will probably be fine. But you might want to open it and clean it in the spring each year. A Bafang BPM with the external screws is easy to open.

Your speed and range and weight are perfectly reasonable on a mountain bike frame. You do not need a large motor or battery although you might want 50% more battery to cope with the cold weather than if you were in a warm climate. Something on the order of 600 to 700 watt hours would be my guess.

You might also think about a hardtail mountain bike with a suspension fork instead of full suspension. Much easier to find and cheaper too. Not as plush, but you can add a suspension seat post if needed. Not having a bunch of shocks, pivots and linkages exposed to your salt spray will reduce the maintainence required.

 

[Keiffith]

Only a suspension fork is asking for spinal dislocation, hence why I was going to build on a light steel race frame and abandoned the idea simply due to the state of absolute disrepair our roads are in.

I think it honestly boils down to protection of electrical components. It will see rain/slush/snow/salt. I can prevent corrosion on mechanical components with maintenance, but electrical components I can not, so I feel my best option is to layer them in as much protection as possible.

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

I think using an ebike specific frame is a better way to go now days than converting a used mtn bike.. mtn bikes are not designed for the extra weight, power and sustained high speeds like current ebike specific frames are .. many ppl built ebikes from mtn bikes previously because ebike specific frames did not come to market until relatively recently.. vector, electric enduro bike and other (stealth and qulbix) clones are really reasonably priced and made to fit large battery capacity and high power hub motors without needing modifications such as making battery enclosure, fitting torque arms, etc.. also maybe have a look at Seki bikes ebike, it fits in your budget for a complete ebike with or without battery (i do not own one but it seems like a pretty good value) : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=91469

The OP is looking to go 20-25mph. He weighs 160 lbs and might want to carry up to 40 lbs of stuff. He only needs a range of about 20 miles- round trip. Nothing there suggest that he needs a high power hub motor or a large battery. Any well made bike frame should be able to deal with this. A heavy duty mountain bike frame should do this without breaking a sweat.

His special need is mostly that of dealing with harsh winters. And doing that successfully will probably come down to a matter of tire choice, good routine cleaning of the bike, and being willing to tough out the cold.

The Sekibike looks interesting, but it seems more like something designed to be an electric motorcycle first, and an e-bike pretty much in name only. I found only one bike in their pictures that was equipped with a derailer (looked like a three speed cluster). These bikes use motorcycle brakes. The battery box has huge letters cut out of its sides and is hardly weatherproof. The focus seems clearly on motorcycle like performance bikes, not on daily commuters. Nothing wrong with all that, but it doesn't seem in keeping with what the OP was asking for. OTOH, maybe the OP is asking for one thing but actually wants another...

seki bikes also has the smaller frame style ebike (as opposed to emoto) .. but sounds like on the OP roads some might prefer an emoto style ..

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=232323&mode=view

I'd bet seki bikes could also make either frame without cutouts if requested..

 

[Keiffith]

Yes, I would like a small emoto

I think the ~60-80lb weight will help more than it will hurt. My lower spine has a bad disc so I really don't want to make it worse.