E-Bikes and Suspended Licenses in NY.. (DWI)

ZOMGVTEK

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A fellow co-worker happened to get a DWI fairly recently, and its looking like he will no longer have a license for 1 year. His lawyer claims e-bikes, or any form of assistance of any kind on a bike, is illegal.
The law really isn't terribly clear anywhere, and most things I read contradict each other.

Currently, would a 24V 500W E-Bike be legal to operate on public roads, without a license?

Wikipedia says...

Electric motor assisted bicycles have been banned in the State of New York and are not permitted for on-road use.[62][63] It appears the only known allowance of an electric bicycle is if it is an electric powered moped, at this time. There is a proposed bill to allow ebikes. As of May 2009, Bill A2393("Defines the term electric assisted bicycle") has been passed in the NY State Assembly[64] and its corresponding Bill S4014, sponsored by Senator Thomas Morahan, passed the Transportation Committee of the New York State Senate on January 26, 2010.[65]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#New_York

Does anyone have anything solid that can be printed or something of the sort to possibly prove legality, beyond the shadow of a doubt? I would imagine most cops really don't know the law in such a case, to be honest.
 
I don't know about NY but on the other side of the country, in OR, in order to ride an ebike you must be eligible for a license so someone that's dealing with a DUII suspension would have to wait that year.

Currently, would a 24V 500W E-Bike be legal to operate on public roads, without a license?

Look at what you quoted...

Electric motor assisted bicycles have been banned in the State of New York and are not permitted for on-road use.
 
I see documents claiming they are both legal and illegal.

This says <1KW, 20MPH, functional pedals, e-brake disconnect, and a helmet, makes it legit.

STATE OF NEW YORK
__________________________________________________ ______________________

4014

2009-2010 Regular Sessions

IN SENATE

April 7, 2009
___________

Introduced by Sen. MORAHAN -- read twice and ordered printed, and when
printed to be committed to the Committee on Transportation

AN ACT to amend the vehicle and traffic law, in relation to the defi-
nition of electric assisted bicycle

The People of the State of New York, represented in Senate and Assem-
bly, do enact as follows:

1 Section 1. The vehicle and traffic law is amended by adding a new
2 section 102-c to read as follows:
3 § 102-c. Electric assisted bicycle. A bicycle with two or three wheels
4 which has a saddle and fully operative pedals for human propulsion and
5 also has an electric motor. The electric assisted bicycle's electric
6 motor shall: have a power output of not more than one thousand watts; be
7 incapable of propelling the device at a speed of more than twenty miles
8 per hour on level ground; and be incapable of further increasing the
9 speed of the device when human power is used to propel the device at or
10 more than twenty miles per hour.
11 § 2. Section 125 of the vehicle and traffic law, as amended by chapter
12 365 of the laws of 2008, is amended to read as follows:
13 § 125. Motor vehicles. Every vehicle operated or driven upon a public
14 highway which is propelled by any power other than muscular power,
15 except (a) electrically-driven mobility assistance devices operated or
16 driven by a person with a disability, (a-1) electric personal assistive
17 mobility devices operated outside a city with a population of one
18 million or more, (b) vehicles which run only upon rails or tracks, (c)
19 snowmobiles as defined in article forty-seven of this chapter, [and] (d)
20 all terrain vehicles as defined in article forty-eight-B of this
21 chapter, and (e) electric assisted bicycles as defined in section one
22 hundred two-c of this article. For the purposes of title four of this
23 chapter, the term motor vehicle shall exclude fire and police vehicles
24 other than ambulances. For the purposes of titles four and five of this
25 chapter the term motor vehicles shall exclude farm type tractors and all

EXPLANATION--Matter in italics (underscored) is new; matter in brackets
[ ] is old law to be omitted.
LBD03706-02-9

S. 4014 2

1 terrain type vehicles used exclusively for agricultural purposes, or for
2 snow plowing, other than for hire, farm equipment, including self-pro-
3 pelled machines used exclusively in growing, harvesting or handling farm
4 produce, and self-propelled caterpillar or crawler-type equipment while
5 being operated on the contract site.
6 § 3. The vehicle and traffic law is amended by adding a new section
7 1238-a to read as follows:
8 § 1238-a. Additional provisions applicable to electric assisted bicy-
9 cles, operators and passengers. 1. In addition to complying with all of
10 the rules, regulations and provisions applicable to bicycles contained
11 in this article, an electric assisted bicycle as defined in section one
12 hundred two-c of this chapter shall comply with the following require-
13 ments:
14 (a) Meet the equipment and manufacturing requirements for bicycles
15 adopted by the Consumer Product Safety Commission (16 C.F.R. 1512.1, et
16 seq.) or the requirements adopted by the National Highway Traffic Safety
17 Administration (49 C.F.R. 571.1, et seq.) in accordance with the
18 National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966 (15 U.S.C. Sec.
19 1381, et seq.) for motor driven cycles; and
20 (b) Operate in a manner so that the electric motor is disengaged or
21 ceases to function when the brakes are applied, or operate in a manner
22 such that the motor is engaged through a switch or mechanism that, when
23 released, will cause the electric motor to disengage or cease to func-
24 tion.
25 2. Notwithstanding the provisions of section twelve hundred thirty-
26 eight of this article, no person less than sixteen years of age shall
27 operate or ride as a passenger upon an electric assisted bicycle, and no
28 person sixteen years of age or older shall allow any person less than
29 sixteen years of age to operate or ride as a passenger upon such bicy-
30 cle.
31 3. No person sixteen years of age or older shall operate or ride as a
32 passenger on an electric assisted bicycle unless such person is wearing
33 a helmet meeting standards established by the commissioner. For the
34 purposes of this subdivision, wearing a helmet means having a helmet of
35 good fit fastened securely on the head of such wearer with the helmet
36 straps securely fastened.
37 4. (a) Any person who violates the provisions of subdivision two or
38 three of this section shall pay a civil fine not to exceed fifty
39 dollars.
40 (b) The court shall waive any fine for which a person who violates the
41 provisions of subdivision three of this section would be liable if such
42 person supplies the court with proof that between the date of violation
43 and the appearance date for such violation such person purchased or
44 rented a helmet.
45 (c) The court may waive any fine for which a person who violates the
46 provisions of subdivision three of this section would be liable if the
47 court finds that due to reasons of economic hardship such person was
48 unable to purchase a helmet or due to such economic hardship such person
49 was unable to obtain a helmet from the statewide in-line skate and bicy-
50 cle helmet distribution program, as established in section two hundred
51 six of the public health law, or a local distribution program.
52 5. The failure of any person to comply with the provisions of this
53 section shall not constitute contributory negligence or assumption of
54 risk, and shall not in any way bar, preclude or foreclose an action for
55 personal injury or wrongful death by or on behalf of such person, nor in
56 any way diminish or reduce the damages recoverable in any such action.

S. 4014 3

1 6. A police officer shall only issue a summons for a violation of
2 subdivision two or three of this section by a person less than sixteen
3 years of age to the parent or guardian of such person if the violation
4 by such person occurs in the presence of such person's parent or guardi-
5 an and where such parent or guardian is eighteen years of age or more.
6 Such summons shall only be issued to such parent or guardian, and shall
7 not be issued to the person less than sixteen years of age.
8 § 4. This act shall take effect immediately.

Comments can be posted here:
S4014 - NY Senate Open Legislation - MORAHAN - Defines the term electric assisted bicycle - New York State Senate
 
I think it's highly unlikely that your friend will be pulled over riding a bicycle if obeying the speed limit and following traffic rules. Just get a small rear motor and cover the back area with panniers or something and peddle to make it look like a regular bicycle. Nobody will notice or care. In my opinion more people should practice civil disobedience and not follow all these increasingly ridiculous laws instead of seeking permission for every single thing we do. I wonder how long it will be before we need a license and insurance to ride a bicycle?
 
electr0n said:
I think it's highly unlikely that your friend will be pulled over riding a bicycle if obeying the speed limit and following traffic rules. Just get a small rear motor and cover the back area with panniers or something and peddle to make it look like a regular bicycle. Nobody will notice or care. In my opinion more people should practice civil disobedience and not follow all these increasingly ridiculous laws instead of seeking permission for every single thing we do. I wonder how long it will be before we need a license and insurance to ride a bicycle?

Its not me that cares, its him. Apparently he was bragging to someone that he has an e-bike that goes 20, and that didn't go over that well... It would be nice to have some sort of proof that its legal, or at least find out why its not legal, should that be the case. I absolutely agree that its very unlikely anyone would ever care, he's just nervous about it. I don't know much about it, but apparently someone is going to be coming over to his house weekly to check up on him, and he has community service he needs to get to with other people in the same situation there. I guess everyone thinks e-bikes are illegal, and wouldn't be happy about the fact that he is operating one.

Or, at least thats what I got out of it.

The bike itself is very stealthy. The motor is smaller than the 7 speed freewheel, you cant tell its there. Basically, the only clue you would have that its powered, is that he isn't pedaling. Are these things legal in this situation? Can it be proven?
 
As far as I can tell NYS shelved this law in CODES - I think Grindz has been paying attention to it along with a few of us who ride in NY and he's probably up on the latest news. Pretty sure it passed both houses but went to Codes and 'been waiting for a large campaign donation to get it on the books IMO.

Search ES with the Assembly or Senate numbers and you'll probably find the discussions over the past couple years. As far as I can tell eBikes are NOT yet defined in NYS. You see more and more in the city for delivery riders and there's guys like me and a few other scofflaws but basically, they're not legal to ride.
 
electr0n said:
I think it's highly unlikely that your friend will be pulled over riding a bicycle if obeying the speed limit and following traffic rules. Just get a small rear motor and cover the back area with panniers or something and peddle to make it look like a regular bicycle. Nobody will notice or care. In my opinion more people should practice civil disobedience and not follow all these increasingly ridiculous laws instead of seeking permission for every single thing we do. I wonder how long it will be before we need a license and insurance to ride a bicycle?
I agree 100% with this. Hell I did it here in a small NM town for 1 year and never got pulled over once on my ebike. Hell they don't even pull over people here with stink bikes! NM law states that you have to a valid drivers license to ride a moped, but doesn't address ebikes specifically.
 
I've been operating a very sketch looking e-bike for about 3 years now, and never had an issue. I was 'stopped' in a group of 3 e-bikes once by a cop, but it was due to reports of kids on bikes stealing GPS's out of cars. He didn't realize they were e-bikes at first, and assumed the batteries were black boxes storing stollen GPS's. Once we told him they were batteries for the motor, he said "OH", and left. However, this was sometime around 1AM on a Saturday, so it wasn't all that odd.

Lately I've been taking my bike to and from work daily, about 20 miles round trip. I pass a cop or two a day, doing 20-30 MPH one handed, no pedaling ever, no helmet, never had any issue. I'd prefer if they were legal, but it kinda looks like a bike, so its probably fine. His e-bike does not even look like a bomb at all, but he was genuinely considering taking it apart after the lawyer told him its illegal...
 
A deal like this is not cut and dried. I believe all ebikes are still illegal in NY. 64 dollar question is do the cops give a damn? Would they even notice your bike is motorized.

Wineboy did it no problem in a place I'd consider the worst case, a small town where the cops know you and about your dui. But even on a not particularly stealthy ebike, they left him alone. I doubt they even know the code for NM. They may have simply never realized he had a motor. They see bike, they ignore, simple as that.

The guy is going to just have to evaluate his own situation, do the cops hate him, etc and decide. He could hardly go wrong with a more stealthy setup, rear gearmotor, smallish battery and controller mounted inconspicuously, and not riding 40 mph. Stay away from the scooter looking ebikes that cops seem to hate.
 
This is the only pic I have of his bike...

6097971145_82e528207f_z.jpg


Its a tiny rear geared motor, the controller is mounted in a bag over the rear tire. Theres 10 Turnigy 6S 5AH packs shoved into this bag...

pTSA-10194078dt.jpg


Id consider it to be fairly stealthy, especially since its just under 500W, and a soft start controller at that. Its SLOW off the line.
 
tell your friend to google "HR 727 bicycle". it's a FEDERAL law, that supercedes state law, with respect to "low speed electric bicycles". basically, if it's less than 750 watts, has functional pedals, and is incapable of propelling over 20 mph, it's a bicycle, NOT a motor vehicle.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#Federal_laws_and_regulations

While federal law determines whether a low-speed electric bicycle meets applicable safety and manufacturing requirements, it does not preempt state and local jurisdictions from enacting their own laws governing the operation of such motorized bicycles on public streets and roadways.

HR 727 is pretty meaningless. All it really says is that ebikes (750w or less, 20mph or less) can't be termed a motor vehicle. Nowhere does it say you can ride an ebike down any street you like.
 
REdiculous said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#Federal_laws_and_regulations

While federal law determines whether a low-speed electric bicycle meets applicable safety and manufacturing requirements, it does not preempt state and local jurisdictions from enacting their own laws governing the operation of such motorized bicycles on public streets and roadways.

that quote is from the wiki, found nowhere in the bill.

so, if we're considering interpretations, i could point to http://www.x-tremescooters.com/techdocs/adobe/e-bicycle-fed-regulation.pdf, and say that if NY wants to ban low speed ebikes, then it needs to ban ALL bikes. all i'm saying is that if it acts just like a bicycle, then it should be treated as, just, a bicycle. personally, in NY, i bet there's some lobbyist group for the taxi consortium.
 
Wake up ptd. The fed law applies only to retailing an ebike. Operation of any kind of vehicle, horse, bike, car, whatever, is covered by state and local statutes. The fed law could apply for some situations, such as can you ride on a trail where bikes are allowed but not "motor vehicles". That is about as far as you can stretch that law. Once on the street, state street vehicle law rules baby.

That's not to say you can't bullshit a cop into buying it that you are a "bike", if the cop doesn't know shit. It's always worth a try. :mrgreen:

Re the OP. That bike looks plenty stealthy to me with the electronics in the bag. I say go for it, and just faux pedal at all times. In his case though, it does depend on what the consequenses for getting caught would be. Would riding an ebike violate probation and send him into a cell, for instance. If so, maybe screw it and pedal. If the risk is just another complication on getting the licence back, and that is going to be years anyway, then with no jail time risk, go for it but stealthy.
 
I have ridden a E bike for years in NYS without problems but the real question is what is ones liability if you should hit someone on the bike knowing its illegal, it's got to be a grey area. Worst if a car hits you and you are on a illegal vehicle what happens in term of fault, I know NYS is a no fault state but in term of a civil suite for lost wages and such, this could play.
 
That, Mark, is exactly what guys riding 40 mph and faster in the street in the USA should be considering. In all states, if they screw up, they just hit somebody with a completely illegal uninsured vehicle. In such a situation, you better be really poor or really rich. Middle class, and they will own your paycheck for a loooong time.

If you get hit, wellllll, these days that guy that hit you is gonna be a mexican with no insurance. :lol: Screwed in that case no matter what you rode.
 
dogman said:
Wake up ptd. The fed law applies only to retailing an ebike. Operation of any kind of vehicle, horse, bike, car, whatever, is covered by state and local statutes.
yes, state and local statutes can regulate behavior. but what i'm focusing on, is the definition, of what "category" a vehicle would fall into. ie, bicycle, and not, motorized bicycle. yes it has a motor, and yes, it's a vehicle, but, NO, it's not a motor vehicle. i just don't think that the DMV has the jurisdiction to dictate the "form", just the behavior of each category. otherwise, they could just as easily say it's illegal to ride a BLUE bike. do we think that'd hold water? to me, HR 727 just seems like a great place to get some deregulation started.

dogman said:
The fed law could apply for some situations, such as can you ride on a trail where bikes are allowed but not "motor vehicles". That is about as far as you can stretch that law.
happens to be the exact case I'M looking at, forest service roads
 
ZOMGVTEK said:
This is the only pic I have of his bike...

6097971145_82e528207f_z.jpg


Its a tiny rear geared motor, the controller is mounted in a bag over the rear tire. Theres 10 Turnigy 6S 5AH packs shoved into this bag...

pTSA-10194078dt.jpg


Id consider it to be fairly stealthy, especially since its just under 500W, and a soft start controller at that. Its SLOW off the line.
That's pretty stealthy. I don't think they will even notice, but I don't live in NY. I have a friend that doesn't have a social security number and therefore can't get a drivers license. He has been in and out of jail, because of this, but he doesn't want a social security number, because he believes it is the mark of the beast in revelations. Anyway he has several stink bikes and rides them past the police station here in town and the cops totally leave him alone now. His wife doesn't have a license either and she rides a stink bike too.
 
Again, beating the horse to death. The state vehicle codes will define the vehicle category in that state. Usually it's in another section of the codes that defines types of vehicles and other stuff. That's for use on any public road, paved, unpaved, whatever. Private property is different. Roads on private property are not public. That's how we ride dirt motorcycles on irrigation ditch bank roads localy. They are EBID private property and we are just trespassing, not riding on the street. Unmaintained roads are usually not considered "street" either. So some dirt roads may not be "street" Dirt trails, bike trails, hiking trails, stuff like that is not a public road. So whether the fed law means anything on those cases is a grey area in some cases. In other cases, local city or county statutes may apply since they are city or county park space.

Personally, I quote the fed Ebike law to folks on the local blm bike trails. They seem ok with it, but then, I ride courteously and play nice with the other riders. The law don't mean squat, but they are buying it. :mrgreen:

In the case of forest service roads, if numbered those are alas, public roads subject to whatever your state law may be. But they could be desingated "off road" by the forest service. Here they just designate em closed to all traffic mostly. Forest service trails would be regulated for vehicle type by the local forest service district office. I wouldn't hesitate to ride a trail posted OK for bikes with an ebike myself. Just like I don't hesitate to ride the local blm trails.
 
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