E-trike for disabled youth

[lcyn]

Jason at E-bikekit.com is located in NJ, and I believe the kit wheels are built in PA. So he would be able to provide assistance and direction for your build. That bike has a 16 inch wheel, so you would have to ask him if you can get that 350W hub built into that wheel. Best of luck.

 

[teklektik]

...however for edumuncation purposes:
the EMoto is not based on a Schwinn Meridian in any way, except they're both upright delta tricycles.
The comparison ends there.

Whoops - apologies - I looked at pictures of the Schwinn and eMoto and the frames, wheels, etc looked identical. My error , but a detail not actually relevant to getting this girl on the road . Thanks for clarifying...

 

[teklektik]

I do expect I want to stay away from anything with coaster brakes or front drum brakes, but I would welcome clarification on this.

Maybe folks would like to chime in on this. The trike you have selected is a single speed with front caliper only. There is a slightly more pricey model (PT3CB-JR) with 3-speed, coaster brake, and front drum brake. There may be some advantage to having a coaster brake considering the coordination difficulties - it will certainly be adequate for the speeds you are considering. It will let her stop with her feet/legs which may be stronger than grabbing a lever and her feet will already be situated on the pedals. The 3-speed option will certainly make the bike more ridable and may encourage pedaling instead of simply giving up and relying on the motor because of difficulty.... just a thought. I contacted Worksman (talk with Heidi) and she indicated that they will substitute a front caliper in lieu of the front drum on that model. This opens the door to a front hub motor and gives your daughter two brakes in the spirit of the old 'American English' design of the late 50's.

As it turns out, Worksman also sells an electric adult trike which is just at the limit of your daughter's size ($1099) - probably not the best choice. However, they can fit their motor kit to the kid trike with front caliper for $1250 (not a wonderful price, but...). This is an SLA solution and I didn't get any details but it's an out-of-box answer that you might upgrade with a better battery in the future.

BTW - A good source of inexpensive but quality batteries that would suit your needs is Ping Battery. Ping is a good guy who stands behind his products. If you are retrofitting a battery or piecing together a build, he may be part of your solution. He has a 36v 10Ah battery that would fill the bill.

Anyhow - the (PT3CB-JR) 3 speed w/caliper might be a better platform and the factory-installed option is, as usual, an easy but sub-optimal motor/battery solution.

 

[REdiculous]

I'd consider a coaster brake because most kids start there, and our legs are stronger than our hands. If you go with an assist-only type of system then it should automagically disable the motor when the coaster brake is applied. If you have hand-operated brakes then you'll need ebike brake levers so you can disable the motor while braking.

 

[MikeFairbanks]

Many of us are still wondering your location in case we might be able to help.


About fast tricycles. Talk to Ice Cube57 about tricycles at high speed. He and I rode together a couple times and one time I was cruising along about 22mph and was making all the turns just fine for about five miles of twisty paved bike paths. Then a big tree jumped out in front of me and wouldn't get out of the way.

I'm lucky I didn't end up in the hospital. No kid will be able to manage an upright tricycle at more than about ten to twelve mph. 30mph around turns? Not where I ride. No way.

 

[teklektik]

If you go with an assist-only type of system then it should automagically disable the motor when the coaster brake is applied. If you have hand-operated brakes then you'll need ebike brake levers so you can disable the motor while braking.

Very good points.

Two thoughts:

1. The coaster ebrake seems like a good plan. You could put a spring-loaded chain idler on the bottom chain with microswitch or magnetic reed switch so when the coaster brakes are applied, the bottom chain would go under tension, lift the idler, and activate the standard controller ebrakes. Here are some quick search results (merely for illustration) that could be pressed into service with a little tinkering and bits and pieces from the hardware store:
   http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=17621
   http://www.dotbike.com/p/9765?utm_source=google&utm_medium=base&utm_campaign=FGL
   http://www.parts4kazuma.com/kazuma-viper-110cc-dirt-bike-chain-tensioner-assembly-p-1704.html?page=2
   http://www.amazon.com/DMR-Chain-Tensioner-Stainless-Steel/dp/B001GSKORE
   (pics): http://www.google.com/search?q=bicycle+chain+idler&hl=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=gMSFT9Mihd7YBbrIpfkI&ved=0CKsBELAE&biw=994&bih=812
   Search eBay for 'microswitch', 'reed switch' or 'magnetic security switch'.
2. In the absence of an ebrake on the coaster ebrake, you can mitigate the chances of motor-ON while braking by switching the front handbrake lever to the right side (motorcycle-standard) and position it at throttle-OFF position. With a full-size grip (full or half-twist) throttle this pretty much ensures that in reaching for the front brake, the motor will be OFF (or very close to it). I ride with mine this way with no ebrakes and the setup is simple and effective.

 

[cruiserbikeman]

http://www.electricwheelstore.com/Electric-Bikes/EW-88/flypage.tpl.html

This is the electric tricycle I have. It packs a load of groceries or whatever you want to load the cage with. It'll take you a distance of 5 or 6 miles. It uses seal lead acid though (48 volts). You can remove the cage and battery if you need to take it up some steps.

 

[dogman dan]

Limit the speeds enough, and you won't have to worry too much about the type of brakes. If you get a bike with a steel fork, it would at least be possible to get some V brake bosses welded or brazed onto the fork. V brakes is all that is going to work with a front hubmotor, at least for front brakes.

Check out the E-bikeKit website. They are geographicaly close to you, and they may be able to help you out with watt limiting one of their 36v SLA powered front gearmotors. I have an older model of thier kit, and watt limiting was simple, just plug in the jumper, and 15 mph was the top speed. I think it set it for the 200 w european standard.

So Ebikekit should be able to fix you up with just what you need, fairly cheap.

 

[teklektik]

The Trailmate bikes are going to be a little more challenging to convert because of the small front wheel and short fork. Personally, unless I was in love with the frame, I wouldn't go after a project that needs a fork modification out of the gateTrailmate Low Rider Manual / Trailmate Low Rider Jr Manual

I share your concern about a full recumbent and visibility (get a big flag) although it would address the stability issue nicely and would have a very high 'cool' factor. There might be some issue with keeping feet up on the pedals but that would depend on your daughter. Conversion would likely involve sticking the battery behind the seat or on the pedal tube between the rider's legs.
KMX Storm
YouTube - KMX Storm

(BTW - this is unrelated but adorable - I ran across it while searching )

Check out the E-bikeKit website. ... Ebikekit should be able to fix you up with just what you need, fairly cheap.

So - with another recommendation for Ebikekit, here's a quickie rundown of a possible DIY build using a conventional trike:

1. (PT3CB-JR) with 3-speed, coaster brake, and front drum brake. with substituted front caliper - $555.
2. Electric Bike Conversion Kit System FRONT - 350W Geared, 36v 12Ah SLA Battery - $696

which brings you in at $555 + $636 = $1251 with some geographically local support.

Variations using the same frame include:

1. The Worksman all-in-one solution with 500W motor, 36v 12AH battery, etc - $1250. Support through Worksman.
2. The equivalent package using a cell_man 350W Muxus motor, 5A charger, and 39v 11.5Ah LiFEPO4 battery would give you a better battery and no local support. approx $1210 + transPacific shipping
3. The same EbikeKit motor above without battery - $494 plus Ping 36v 10Ah LiFePO4 battery and charger - $318 +(transPacific shipping) would get local support for the motor/controller/etc at approx $1367

There is not a lot of cost difference here - it looks mostly like tradeoffs in support and other intangibles that fall in your arena .

Again - the batteries in the last two options are much better, but can be retrofit in the future with no difficulty. The SLA/LiFePo4 batteries will probably be good for something like 250/1500 cycles respectively (more or less) to give you a general notion of life expectancy - over-discharge for either type will shorten their lives appreciably.

Just a thought: for an SLA solution the first choice above with EbikeKits is likely to give you the best support for ebike-oriented issues - although the Worksman kit is equivalent in features and price, ebikes are not what they do and the larger motor may turn into more of a negative because of speed issues. On the other side of the coin, EbikeKits have their own connectors (mostly audio jacks) and their Tech Support gets pretty antsy when you talk about substituting different throttles, etc. "Voids the warrantee" pops up PDQ). This probably takes the Cycle Analyst off the table (I know it wasn't on your wish list anyway...) but other throttles/ebrakes can likely be substituted by supplying an EbikeKit-compatible connector (Radio Shack). I didn't get in touch with Worksman about their kits and whether or not they utilize more conventional components/connectors. These 'standard component' points may be of little consequence if you plan on simply going to the original vendor for support.

Just a summary folks - putting some concrete recommendations together - comments welcome.... :wink:

EDIT: BTW - EbikeKits said they would lace a motor for a 26" wheel into a 20" wheel to help cut the speed.

 

[teklektik]

One last thing: EbikeKits does not provide a three speed switch on their controller. If you head in their direction, you might ask them straight up what they can do to limit speed to 10-12mph if the wheel size change doesn't turn the trick.

If they can't help and you perceive that a problem persists, ping the forum on this thread and we'll see what can be done without voiding your warrantee.

Also - their kit will allow you to undertake the coaster brake/ebrake gimmick discussed earlier - it will just plug into one of their existing ebrake connectors using a standard mini audio jack.

 

[dogman dan]

Yeah, you want the three speed switch, if the E-BikeKit controller no longer has the euro limiting 200w plug on it. So ask ebikekit if they still have the limiter jumper. They may be able to just add one to a controller for you if it's not standard anymore.

 

[teklektik]

The Worksman Tech Guy is out today and back tomorrow to give some answers on their 500W kit. Since this solution competes dollar-wise with the EbikeKit approach, it might end up being a better choice if one of the conventional (controller/switch/throttle/CA) limiting gimmicks can be easily brought to bear. Ideally, the max controller current could be preserved but the speed limited to keep good startup torque.

I'm also thinking that some ES members will consider dumping their v2.23 CA in favor of the new v3.0, so used ones might be available shortly at a discount. As far as the Setup lockout problem, I was thinking that it would be relatively easy to incorporate a keyswitch into the CA case and tap into the left button connection in series. This would leave all the usual reset functionality intact but it would be impossible to enter Setup mode without a key. Again, I appreciate that a simpler limiting approach is preferred, but if that does not work out with the kits at hand or if the outlay is small, a CA has more to offer.

 

[teklektik]

Finally got in touch with the Worksman tech guy, Alan. It seems their electric kit is from EbikeKit (!) and is 'specially modified' for them. They report that it has a 10mph speed limiter and a FWD/REV switch built into the throttle. They are using a direct drive for this EbikeKit 350W unit. They also sell a 500W kit for about twice the price based on a Heinzmann geared motor which is specially geared down - that thing must be torquey enough to plow the north forty....

Getting back in touch with Ebikekit and talking with Patrick from Service - Patrick indicated that they have a 20" front drive trike kit that is limited to 10mph forward and 3mph reverse and has a reverse switch in the throttle (which sounds like the Worksman kit).

So - looks like either choice will get you what you want for about the same price, although I have to note that Patrick at EbikeKit is easier to get ahold of that Alan at Worksman :wink: and was very sure to note that he was happy to answer questions, etc. Alan was helpful as well, but a really busy guy.

Although we have discussed using a gear motor and re-lacing a 26 to 20" to get the speed down, Ebikekit doesn't want to mess with re-lace etc for the trike kit since it's all set to play together nicely with speed limiting. The standard Chinese gearmotors (differing from the pricier German Heinzmann) have a freewheel clutch and cannot be equipped with reverse (without some mechanical surgery). The whole 'reverse capability' was sort of overlooked and is a compelling reason to go direct drive.

And, of course, the 10mph speed limiter takes the 3-speed switch off the table...

 

[SamTexas]

Getting back in touch with Ebikekit and talking with Patrick from Service - Patrick indicated that they have a 20" front drive trike kit that is limited to 10mph forward and 3mph reverse and has a reverse switch in the throttle (which sounds like the Worksman kit).

Do you have a link to this kit? I just checked their website but could not find it.

 

[teklektik]

Do you have a link to this kit? I just checked their website but could not find it.

Nope - I looked for it myself after my conversation with AJ and didn't find it. Since he's a Tech guy, not Sales, he knows the kit exists and was very familiar with the specifics but might not be on top of the current offerings to the general public. Unfortunately, I was off the call before I found out it wasn't listed. I share your thought though - a page on the site would be nice to get the technical particulars.

Chasing down the pricing requires another call to Sales that I thought JDPA or anyone else interested could pursue. There's a very small chance that they have some exclusivity paper set up with Worksman for a special kit, but that seems very unlikely. In any case, on the face of it, there seem to be one or two pretty good options to get a spiffy kid-sized trike together PDQ.

 

[E-BikeKit.com]

The "E-TrikeKit" by Electric Bike Technologies (E-BikeKit) uses a 500w direct-drive motor. We'll do an official product release in 2 weeks. Please contact E-BikeKit customer service directly with any questions or to order. It's likely they will be sold out before we have a chance to post them on the site. Supplies are limited with full inventory expected in 4 weeks. For now the price is the same as all our kits at $494.

 

[SamTexas]

The "E-TrikeKit" by Electric Bike Technologies (E-BikeKit) uses a 500w direct-drive motor. We'll do an official product release in 2 weeks.

For now it would be beneficial to potential customers (me specifically) to review/study all the relevant data relating to the kit. Can you provide that info?

 

[teklektik]

The "E-TrikeKit" by Electric Bike Technologies (E-BikeKit) uses a 500w direct-drive motor. We'll do an official product release in 2 weeks. Please contact E-BikeKit customer service directly with any questions or to order. It's likely they will be sold out before we have a chance to post them on the site. Supplies are limited with full inventory expected in 4 weeks. For now the price is the same as all our kits at $494.

Guys - thanks for stepping up with info about this release. This is great news. As you can see, this is a great solution for this family. Thanks for the assistance of your people to get this option on the table and best of luck with the product .

 

[teklektik]

FWIW, Fusin has a version of their geared motors available without the freewheeling/clutch mechanism. Louispower here on ES is their rep.

Thanks! Very interesting. Of course the other option is to lend me the gear motor of choice for a day and I'll sieze the clutch without even trying...

 

[E-BikeKit.com]

The "E-TrikeKit" by Electric Bike Technologies (E-BikeKit) uses a 500w direct-drive motor. We'll do an official product release in 2 weeks. Please contact E-BikeKit customer service directly with any questions or to order. It's likely they will be sold out before we have a chance to post them on the site. Supplies are limited with full inventory expected in 4 weeks. For now the price is the same as all our kits at $494.

Guys - thanks for stepping up with info about this release. This is great news. As you can see, this is a great solution for this family. Thanks for the assistance of your people to get this option on the table and best of luck with the product .

Thanks. The mom that started this thread is very knowledgeable. She's going to make a great conversion and we can't wait to see what she does.

 

[E-BikeKit.com]

http://www.e-bikekit.com/shop/index.php?p=catalog&parent=22&pg=1

 

[dogman dan]

Same winding as the normal kits?

 

[MikeFairbanks]

I'm stoked for you and your daughter.

I introduced those two companies to each other by building the first Worksman/EbikeKit.com system in history. Woohoo. Jason then talked to Worksman about forming some kind of project together. Two American companies making it happen.

I still use it a lot:

And I learned how to build it from all the wonderful friends on Endless Sphere, the best website....PERIOD...for the serious E-builder.

 

[JDPA]

First, a big THANK YOU to all the participants thus far.

An update for those that are interested. I contacted Jason at E-BikeKit and he invited me down (~40miles away) to check out the proto build they did for Worksman. Those of you that followed the original post saw that they are coming out with an E-TrikeKit and it is a 500W motor. The proto build is the set up that the Worksman Lighting E-Trike will be. I don't think the Worksman posting accurately reflects the kit. It's a black, front-wheel direct drive. The kits were crafted so that it looked incredibly easy to install them. No flying leads, just keyed plugs.

As it turns out, I bought the proto because I believed it could be adjusted to work for my daughter, and here was a near perfect solution!

So, Jason was incredibly helpful, I learned a lot about the technology and the set up. He gave me more than two hours of his time. I test rode/drove the prototype (my first e-bike experience!), it hadn't yet been speed limited! We took apart the controller to see how it might be speed limited. My daughter's situation is unique because she weighs so little (54# soaking wet). So, we'll probably do something simple in line from the throttle. They did not have any of the speed controllers that posters mentioned. But, it might be nice to have something to give speed back if mom or dad ever wants to ride!

I'll get pics of her riding after I take care of the speed. I don't have much spare time to work on it. She's seen it and is excited. There is some blackmail going on in that if she doesn't pedal, I'll turn off the battery!

Finally, I need a solution to add more/easier braking to the bike. The original Worksman had two hand brakes. One was a front caliper, the other was a front drum(?). So, now there is only the front caliper and there are two concerns. 1) it takes a LOT of effort to stop the bike 2) it's hard for her small hand to squeeze with any amount of pressure.

So, experts, what can I add? I believe the fittings are on the motor for a brake disk, but I don't think the fork has the needed clearance. Can I get a fork with with the needed mounting points for the disk caliper that is wide enough for the wheel with the motor? I have an extra hand brake that is only serving as an e-brake. Should I change out the gear to a coaster brake? It's something she knows how to do, but would still take a heck of a lot of pressure to stop. And, I'd want to add the cutout components discussed before. What about rear disk brakes? Is that even possible (within reason)?

Let me know if you need pics of the fork to assess braking options.

Thank you to all the original posters for your great ideas. Thank you to Jason and E-BikeKit for his time and expertise.

 

[MikeFairbanks]

I know everyone on this site knows their stuff, but when it comes to people starting in the E-bike adventure, I can't think of a better experience than I had with Jason at EbikeKits.com. So responsive. Same-day communication, excellent product (that arrives exactly as advertised) and easy setup that is thoroughly explained.

If I build another tricycle (and, darn it, I will....ebikes are so addicting) I'll definitely go back to them.

I know others sell a good kit too, but you can't go wrong with Jason's company. Great venture.


I just wish it were easier and cheaper for him to be able to compete in the battery market. It's unfair how he is held down by regulations that importers don't have to follow. Total bummer.


Is there anyone in the USA selling good batteries that aren't SLA?


For a trike, SLA is the way to go (cheap, easy to replace, adds stability to the trike, etc.).