eBike advice and guidance wanted

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Siress

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Continuation from: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7829

I went bike shopping today. I think it's been 7 years since I last rode one. There's a great bicycle shop in my area that seems to specialize in mtb's: Bear Creek Bikes I asked if they had any experience with eBikes and he actually knew quite a bit about it. He expressed a lot of concern about the durability and dependability of the products in the market. He doesn't feel that it's a viable option yet, based on his experiences. He hasn't heard of Crystalyte so I took his concerns with a grain of salt. I'm going to try and make this thread brief, I hope no one minds spreadsheet format...

Usage: Commuting in Atlanta (8-12 mi/day)
Budget: $1500
Platform: Cheap, full-suspension, disk brakes
eBike Parts: $860 (Top speed: 18mph in 19s; range: 36mi)
LiFePO4 36V 20Ah w/ charger for $460 : http://www.pingbattery.com/
Crystalyte 407 rear wheel 26" for $280 : http://ebike.ca/
Crystalyte 36V 20A peddle first controller for $95 + soldered shunt mod to 40A
Twist throttle for $15

Unaddressed Concerns:
Highest voltage/amperage peddle first controller out there? (Excluding the modified Crystalyte controller, but thanks for the heads-up! )
LiFePO4's ability to be connected in series, differing V/Ah tolerant? (Ex: 36V 20Ah pack in series with a 48V 8Ah pack)
Hardtail MTB's with disk brakes and 150mm spacing between dropouts, do they even exist?

Thanks for helping me out, guys and gals.
-Siress
 
He did explain to me why a rear wheel motor would be better than a front wheel motor (gyroscopic effect when turning magnified with additional mass). I think I'll be a regular there before I move to Atlanta; they have weekly rides on the Pinhoti trail.

I've spent a while sifting through the 'waterproofing' search without finding anything concrete. However, I'm pretty sure I know what I want to do. I'm thinking that I can use some sort of waterproof tote bag to house the battery and controller (with some creative ventilation). Then, have a wire harness that connects the throttle and motor with one plug (that's all I have to worry about unless I toss a ride analyzer on the bike, right?). That way I can disconnect the single plug, cover the one connected to the bike with something to keep water out of it, and carry the most expensive components of the bike with me. in their waterproof tote. It might be necessary to make this tote myself. I'll already have a backpack, so I'm thinking some type of messenger bag that'll fit between the tubes. I can use the carry strap to secure it, at least partially, if it disconnects from the tote.

I'm kind of shocked by how cheap this is ending up. I'm looking for a peddle-first controller with higher voltage and amperage ratings.
 
The main issue with front hubs is will they fit or break suspension forks, carbon forks, etc. So a lot of MTB's will work better with rear motors. I really like my front hub though, but admit it does take getting used to, especially if it ever spins on wet crosswalk stripes. Steel frames can be nice, since they are strong where the motor hub bolts on, and weight is not so crucial with the power of a motor helping you. Rear suspension can be nice for smoothing out really shitty roads. I like it since here in the southwest the heat creates a sort of corrugated road with a big hump on every crack. But rear suspension really limits the choices for how to carry the battery and how much it can weigh. So for a lot of folks, a real good choice for an ebike is a steel frame with a big triangle space to mount the battery there, a nice set of front suspension forks, and a rear motor.

Waterproofing I know squat about, living in the desert, but wet controllers and wet hall sensors seem to be the biggest problems. If you ride wet a lot, condensation in the motor hub can get bad since humidity gets in, and then doesn't leave. I have seen some discussions about vent holes in the covers, that get plugged while riding, and opened occasionally to let out humidity. Peadle first, without the halls to worry about seems to help. One option you may want to consider later as funds come avaliable, is a used gas moped to ride on the REALLY wet days. There seem to be a few selling cheap now since gas got cheap. If you can find one cheap enough, I could be a good back up for those really wet days without much eco impact if you only ride it 2 or 3 days a month.
 
From a retail store standpoint. your bike shop guy is right in many aspects, there is currently very little available commercially ( with support from the manufacture ) .. clyte is ok but it's hand bult and wide range of QC, some batches turn out ok, others, .. not so ok.. BoinX is flacky with availability, etc.. i would have to agree with the guy.

But.. heck. that's what we are here for !! :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Cl96QyfAOw
 
Thanks guys!

I've not lucked out on finding a used bike. The bikes that I've looked at are the Jamis Trail X1, Trek 820/4300 and Fisher Mako/Tarpon.

The latest trip to the bike store lead to concern with the Jamis Trail X1 and Trek 820, the cheapest options, due to their light duty front suspensions. Since I intend to ride this pretty hard before putting electronics in it, that's a pretty big concern. While I hate to pay more for a bike I plan to have stolen later on, I hate even more to break the bike because I didn't spend $100 more. :? Well, I'm going to mull over these bikes and make sure the hub motor fits. If anyone has any advice, please share!
 
10mm dropouts !!!! a must !

7 speeds and no disk brake = 135mm wide
7 speeds and a disk brake = 150mm

try to find a frame with as little taper as possible, ie: the swingarm tubes come out horizontal so that the large diameter hub does not make adding a disk impossible.

V brakes are fine if you stick with a full size wheel, easier than dealing with the disk stuff..
 
I'm having a difficult time finding those details online... I'm not going to, am I? I guess I can call the bike shop and ask them to measure for me; seems a bit rude though.

As for the gearing, does it have to be a 7 speed when I buy it? If so, that narrows it down to the Gary Fisher Mako, Tarpon, and Trek 820. The others are 8 speed, except the Jamis weighing in at 21 speeds.
 
Perhaps you should consider a 48 volt Ping battery. I have a 406/409 C Lyte motor and the 406 at 36 volt= 18 MPH
but at 48 volts I get 22 MPH or better. I would also advise that you charge the Ping battery for 12-24 hours the first few cycles
to balance the pack.

Also you ask about the speeds AND I think you don' t have to be concerned about that. get a good hardtail with 135 spacing.
 
Well, truth be known I'm wanting to double up the 36V packs... :twisted: I figure that I should have two, one as an emergency backup, and by going with a modest 36V pack I'll be able to double them up and burn some tread. However, considering I'll be riding in extremely congested areas most of the time I don't think that top speed is my primary concern. (72V => 33+ MPH! :twisted:) Another consideration was the weight. I'll be carrying the battery and controller around with me when parking the bike on campus. The additional 7lbs for the 48V pack just isn't worth it. Besides, making sure I'm within legal speeds won't be a worry; until I decide that running dual packs is the only way to go... :lol: My primary concern is not having to shower after commuting on the bike. The 36V pack should suit that need, right?

Any word on finding out the spacing online? I'd have thought that the ebike community would have created a spreadsheet of them by now.
 
Almost all hub motors use " Freewheels - threads on" instead of " Casette - splined " type gears..

You don't need that many gears on a hub motor, the 14 tooth gear is just about all that's required ( bonus if you have a 3 speed front chainring ) ..

But if you want to use a 7 speed freewheel and keep the existing derailleur, the indexing ( or movement per "click" ) not a huge deal either way as the difference between a 7 and an 8 speed are not that large and the chain can be adjusted to your prefered gear with the threaded thingy on the handlebars. :wink:

Most mtb and hd frames in the 1000$ range will have 10mm dropouts, but some of the better stuff sometimes has 12mm .. just better to make sure ahead of time.. sucks to get it wrong.
 
Awesome! Thanks.

I'm itching to buy a bike now. I'm going to hit up a bike shop next to GT campus, Skate Escape, and probably purchase my bike there to begin my patronizing. They sell BionX and Currie electric bikes! I'm rather excited about that. This whole electric bike thing is becoming less and less niche the more I look around. However, I prefer the DIY system outlined here over anything those two companies have to offer. Hopefully someone at Skate Escape will have some first hand experience with Crystalyte stuff and impart a lot of the remedial knowledge; you know, the stuff I don't even know that I don't know :lol: While I'd like to buy my bike there, they only carry Haro, GT and Fuji. I haven't researched any of these brands in person so I don't know what to expect in comparison to the Gary Fisher and Trek bikes that I'm currently focused on. (sub $550 bikes)

At this rate, I might end up blowing off New Years parties for hitting the trails.


Updated Unaddressed Concerns:
Highest voltage/amperage peddle first controller out there?
LiFePO4's ability to be connected in series, differing V/Ah tolerant? (Ex: 36V 20Ah pack in series with a 48V 8Ah pack)
 
Siress said:
Highest voltage/amperage peddle first controller out there?
Click to expand...

I haven't seen one better/higher than the Clyte 24-72v/20A pedal first like ebikes.ca has. It's really easy to go in and solder the shunt for more amps and with the 4110s it makes a good controller capable of running around ~100v max without modifying anything. I've run mine around ~76v/40A at times without issue. I think I could easily get more amps with the fully soldered shunt, but my old battery pack couldn't really deliver more than 40A sustained for any decent length of time.
 
My ass hurts. What I mean to say is, I've been test riding bikes all day. I started at 11am, test riding and asking questions, then driving to the next bike shop and repeating the process. My favorite of all was an '08 GF Marlin for $500...but it was 1" bigger than my size. I've never wanted a growth spurt more in my life. Among the others are a Haro Flightline Sport '08 ($500), a Haro Flightline Comp '08 ($650), a Trek 820 '09 ($330), and, the one I may end up buying, a Trek 4300 Disk '09 ($600). Tomorrow I'm going to test ride some Jamis and Specialized bikes, although I'd really like to ride some GT bikes there just isn't anyone around that carries them. I do have one major issue, though, listed below.

I have been sold on the disk brakes, but no one recalled ever coming across a hardtail MTB with disk brakes that had 150mm space b/w dropouts. Every one of them seems to be 135mm. I do not want a 406 motor, considering I've almost convinced myself that I need to step up to the X5 series, nor do I want V brakes. I'll be looking for the solution to this, but if anyone knows the answer I am very eager to listen.

Updated Unaddressed Concerns:
Highest voltage/amperage peddle first controller out there? (Excluding the modified Crystalyte controller, but thanks for the heads-up! )
LiFePO4's ability to be connected in series, differing V/Ah tolerant? (Ex: 36V 20Ah pack in series with a 48V 8Ah pack)
Hardtail MTB's with disk brakes and 150mm spacing between dropouts, do they even exist?
 
Look for steel frames so you can bend em out to 150 mm. And don't forget you won't be caring about how they peadle once you get a big ol x5 on there. :shock: No way will you want to go under 20 mph, so forget peadling unless you find one of these big front cranks.58 TOOTH CRANK small pic.jpg
 
This will be a dual purpose bike, though; heavy trail riding (climbing and descending) and e-commuting/commuting. I plan to convert back and forth on a regular basis. I'd much rather have an aluminum bike with quality components than a steel bike with bottom line components (not even sure I could get disk brakes with a steel frame).

EDIT: :roll: Why have I even been worried about this? I'll just snag a cheap, full-suspension, comfortable, easy-to-tech bike to put the electronics on (steel frame, disk brakes enter the picture again; it just makes sense).
 
This warrants a new post. The other location of this store had a 17.5" Marlin that I snagged (woot!), plus all of the other gear I needed, and I grabbed a picture of the motor on the electric bike that they sell. When the weather permits riding again, I'll probably order a set of hydraulic disk brakes off ebay ($115 a set!? They were more in the store individually!)



It's the first hub motor I've seen in person so I have no clue what mfg it is, but I suspect Crystalyte due to the shape; but that doesn't seem likely considering the machined logo on the housing. What do you guys and gals think?

-Siress
 
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