Ecospeed nightmare.

[15rms]

Around the second week of August I called Lightfoot Cycles and tried to order a Ecospeed Rambler. I am very familiar with Lightfoot Cycles since I already had purchased 3 of their bikes before. Lightfoot Cycles tried very hard to get me to order the Ecospeed powered bike from Ecospeed. I explained to them I was happy with their work in the past and would prefer they build it.

Around 4 days later I get a call from Lightfoot cycles. They explained to me the price on the Ecospeed web site was out of date and the bike would be $500 more than the price stated on the web site. I hollered foul and persuaded them to honor the price listed on the web site. Also at this time since I had it planned for a later date I asked Lightfoot to build me one of their discontinued bikes built specifically for Bionx. I wanted the Bionx bike for my girlfriend and grand kids. For a premium Lightfoot agreed to build the custom Bionx bike sort of a package deal. I ordered the Bionx kit and had it delivered to Lightfoot. The same day I called Ecospeed to complain about them trying to not honor the price that was still on the web site. I got a butt chewing from Ecospeed I will never forget. I guess since they are a small operation they did not feel compelled to sell their systems for the price listed on their web site. Soon after I was billed on my credit card for the Ecospeed system and the bionx bike.

Around a month later my bionx bike arrived. I started asking about the Ecospeed bike. I found out the 1300 watt motors had some problems and I could either wait for a new batch or take a 1000 watt motor with a later upgrade for free. I asked Ecospeed if they would give me their 20 amp battery instead and call it even. They agreed and I was now waiting for a Ecospeed bike with a 20 amp battery.

So time goes on and I call Lightfoot to see about my Ecospeed bike. The bike is built just waiting for Ecospeed to deliver the system. A couple weeks later I call back and find out Ecospeed is way behind evidentially one of their employees had a baby and that slowed the process down. Finally a couple weeks later I call Lightfoot and asked for my money back. The owner called me back within the hour. I guess my system is being built at this time. He gave me the secret cell phone number and I called them. This was on Friday and I was assured my Ecospeed system would be shipped Monday.

In short order Lightfoot put the bike together and shipped it to me. I had it assembled professionally and was ready to ride. The motor quit in 4 miles. I called Ecospeed and they were very hesitant to ship me a new motor unless I shipped my old motor back first. After some reassurance they shipped me a new 1300 watt motor. I rode the bike several times for around 180 miles. I noticed after it got warm the motor would lose power and vibrate. I called Ecospeed and discovered the exact story as with the first smaller motor. The motor was from a batch of motors that everybody had similar problems with so I am having the same problems. This was the 15 of Dec. I am advised I could not get a new motor tell after the new year. I called on the 2nd and found out they were closed tell the 6th. Ok so now I am mad and calling Lightfoot I am threatening lawsuits and all kinds of carnage unless they come to my aid and help me with this bike that just won’t go. Finally talk to Ecospeed and remind them I paid for a small motor and don’t need to wait for big motor. They advise me they can ship me a new small motor tomorrow. A week later they ship. I got the motor today and have to take it to a local electric bike shop to mount it. I am not good with a wrench and even though I tried I could not get it to mount properly. This will be my second 100 mile round trip and second time to pay an $89.00 shop fee to get this brand new $6,500 Ecospeed bike running.

So I left out several phone calls and dates. I just did not write down the dates and the endless phone calls have faded from memory.

The bottom line is I am sitting here looking at one of the highest dollar ebikes available which I paid for in August and still cannot ride. Needless to say I would not do it all over again and would never advise anybody else to go thru what I have with this company.

Thanks for listening.

 

[Chalo]

No outfit that sells recumbents will ever be truly committed to seeing things through until they work properly. If they did, they'd reiterate the bicycle design process of the last 150 years and arrive at the conclusion that recumbents simply do not work well for able-bodied people who have normal expectations of a bicycle.

Recumbents are a "should work" type of solution originating from people whose experience with bicycles of mature design is questionable to nonexistent. So it's really no surprise that they'd take a "should work" approach to the electrics of an e-bent as well.

Thus, with the troublesome e-motor as well as with the ill-handling feet-first bike, it may be a matter of recalibrating your expectations to accommodate what "should work", but in fact does not.

 

[dogman dan]

Hard to see how that affects the QC of motors that were made by somebody else in china. Doesn't seem to me like he has a problem with the recumbent bike.

To be sure, Ecospeed made a bad choice of motor supplier, and need to keep their website up to date. At a minimum, change to " email us for price".

Even though I read it twice, I'm still a bit confused at which company screwed up. Ecospeed or lightfoot, but it appears to me lightfoot got caught in the middle.

 

[15rms]

Lightfoot very much is getting cought in the middle. I really like Lightfoot bikes and beleive them to be the best on the market. The only thing Lightfoot may have done is to be more receptive to my needs. They have been very quiet and somewhat unresponsive.

 

[dnmun]

what do you expect if they know you are gonna sue them?

so why did the first motor stop after 4 miles?

you talked about how you got another motor which was also bad because it was the same motor that all these other unknown people also had problems with so you assumed it is the same problem these unknowns had?

so now they have shipped you a third motor and you have to have these guys at lightship install it? so all the other motors stayed with them or do you have all three motors now?

 

[chvidgov.bc.ca]

Chalo, I call BS on your supercilious negative attitude toward recumbents, including trikes most probably. Care for a continent wide etour race with a titanium TourEasy loaded with gear and batteries and a fairing vs virtually any other non-recumbent bicycle? Good luck with that. Recumbents generally have way easier and better battery carrying geometry, and better watt hours (or human powered efficiency) per mile. Two big packs on a midrack low under the seat makes all the windage and pain about building "in-frame" battery packs in diamond frame bikes on endless-sphere a joke. Oh...one hundred years of peak bike evolution failed to consider the ULTIMATE in bike evolution...the faired electric recumbent...<supercilious recumbent tag off>. Enough with the sweeping generalizations. Oh I forgot, recumbents were banned from professional racing decades ago because they were too fast. A recumbent is just a frame, with high quality highly evolved parts on it, like any other bike. In the niches where they are superior, they are way superior. And Lightspeed makes some very cool bikes. Its not their fault that they were caught in the middle with yet another questionably executed mid-drive concept add-on. And yes, I do prefer all of my several collected recumbents to the other "normal" bikes which aren't as comfortable or efficient, especially for long-distance touring. <sarc on> Of course YOU mustn't consider the aerodynamics of the full rider/bike envelope including fairings, and even velo shells, as part of a "mature" bike evolutionary process. That would be a leap too far (forward). As would similar considerations of rider comfort. I'd like to speak to your witch doctor in a few years time to look at your neck x-rays. Any way, I'm glad you are riding the most maturely evolved bike technology in history. That's not what I'm riding. Perhaps you could weigh in on what bike I should be riding.<sarc off>

 

[Chalo]

My point is that if a manufacturer accepts a design that has hypothetical advantages but is a liability in the real world, then they have demonstrated that they can and will do so, even with other elements of the project. Like the electrical system, or the suppliers they choose.
'
Trikes have serious issues; 'bents have serious issues. Combining them seems to correct some of the worst shortcomings of both.

Don't get me wrong here. I have choppers and trikes among my own rides, even though they have big problems. I designed myself a recumbent railbike, though I never got around to building it. One of my jobs right now is designing and building trikes. And I have been doing this stuff for 25 years now. I have thoroughly checked out all of the above and more. For me, it's not a value judgment to say 'bents don't work. It's just an empirical observation.

Like a radical chopper, a 'bent can make even a seasoned and familiar rider wobble and lurch around like someone who just learned to stay up on two wheels. If you can accept that, fine-- but the manufacturer who can accept that in a marketable product will likely accept other glaring problems along with it.

 

[chvidgov.bc.ca]

Why don't you talk to other bent riders, who like their bents, and consider them to be GREAT bikes, after riding their diamond frames for years, before you say they don't work with this MASSIVE generalization. Never diss other peoples rides. A good rule to live by.

 

[spinningmagnets]

For the curious, here is the Lightfoot Cycles E-Systems page in question:

http://www.lightfootcycles.com/opti...ssist-overview/electric-assist-manufacturers/

 

[15rms]

Dmnum I did not get angry and threaten a law suite until this week.

I do not know why the first motor quit after 4 miles.

As far as getting motors from 2 batches of bad motors. I am just repeating what Ecospeed told me.

I returned the first motor. The second motor goes back as soon as I get the third motor installed.

 

[liveforphysics]

I encounter recumbents pretty often riding around town here in Santa Cruz. Typically always loaded with bags and packs hanging off them. I have never had a recumbent guy that could hang with me on my roadbike (though I realize they should have a substantial top-speed advantage with the reduced aero drag).

However, I do see smiling faces enjoying cycling, and you're not currently inside a steel cage/coffin while cycling on any type of bike, so I don't see the issue if someone wants to trade handling in exchange for reduced drag. (even if most recumbent guys seem to pile so many bags and racks and things on the bike it likely ends up higher drag than a conventional roadbike)

As far as the motor failures, that seems very odd. A brushless motor that works typically stays working if it remains being connected to signal to power it and it wasn't overheated to the point of melting or something.

 

[15rms]

It does seem very odd having so many failed motors. Considering our toxic relationship I sometimes question intent.

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

didn't a trike win pikes peak hill climb race against optibike and others..

 

[dnmun]

It does seem very odd having so many failed motors. Considering our toxic relationship I sometimes question intent.

how can they control how the motor is built except to buy it from someone else. he doesn't make the motor so how could he possibly damage it before sending it to you and why would he even do that?

maybe if you had posted up when the first motor went dead we coulda helped you fix it.

 

[15rms]

Dnmun you have not even attempted to help me. Every post I have made in reference to this issue you have been critical of. Maybe had I done this different you would have helped. I don’t buy it. Why don’t you try to help instead of proclaiming your want to help. Actions speak louder than words.

 

[Geebee]

My point is that if a manufacturer accepts a design that has hypothetical advantages but is a liability in the real world, then they have demonstrated that they can and will do so, even with other elements of the project. Like the electrical system, or the suppliers they choose.
'
Trikes have serious issues; 'bents have serious issues. Combining them seems to correct some of the worst shortcomings of both.

Don't get me wrong here. I have choppers and trikes among my own rides, even though they have big problems. I designed myself a recumbent railbike, though I never got around to building it. One of my jobs right now is designing and building trikes. And I have been doing this stuff for 25 years now. I have thoroughly checked out all of the above and more. For me, it's not a value judgment to say 'bents don't work. It's just an empirical observation.

Like a radical chopper, a 'bent can make even a seasoned and familiar rider wobble and lurch around like someone who just learned to stay up on two wheels. If you can accept that, fine-- but the manufacturer who can accept that in a marketable product will likely accept other glaring problems along with it.

If that and the previous rant include recumbent trikes you are at best misinformed at worst.

 

[dogman dan]

Whether you agree with it or not, he's entitled to speak his opinion on bents.

Opinions about him, or you, or anybody are less welcome.

Got anything to contribute about bents Gee bee?

 

[Ypedal]

As LFP outlined, brushless motor failures usually are caused by overheating ( wrong gear ratio ) , chain stress causing bearing failure ( too tight, or a tight spot caused by out of round sprockets, needs a spring loaded tentioner )... etc.

For that amount of money, i'd expect all gremlins to be worked out proper...... no fun.

 

[15rms]

ypedal I believe all of the chain tensions and sprockets are set up just right. The heat could not have been an issue I was riding in 50 degree days.

 

[LSBW]

Lightfoot Cycles tried very hard to get me to order the Ecospeed powered bike from Ecospeed

It was your first clue, OP.

 

[Chalo]

Whether you agree with it or not, he's entitled to speak his opinion on bents.

Opinions about him, or you, or anybody are less welcome.

No problem here; he just missed the part I said about trikes and 'bents fixing up the problems with each other.

FWIW, I'd go so far as to say the best way to do a trike is a 'bent, and the best way to do a 'bent is a trike. A manufacturer that provides those might have a better shot at nailing the other details of an e-bike in a satisfactory manner, too.

I don't design pedicab trikes as 'bents because there are size, maneuverability, and visibility issues to contend with.

 

[JEB]

Chalo, Do you have a gallery of photos of the Pedicabs, Trikes, bikes, etc, that you have built?

On my trike (tadpole) I am using a 600watt mac brushless motor, with a 4.8 to one planetary, like on EV deals, driving a split chain mid drive jackshaft with freewheels, I have been using it for years, riding almost every day with out any problems, the chain lube on #25, and bike chain is a chain-saver teflon wet to dry lube, sprayed on.

 

[Chalo]

Chalo, Do you have a gallery of photos of the Pedicabs, Trikes, bikes, etc, that you have built?

Chalo dot org is a many-year-old site with a few of my more frivolous things on it. I can't share details about the pedicab I've been working on, because it is an unreleased product of a friend's company-- mostly his own work and development-- and it's entirely his prerogative to reveal or withhold information about it. What I can say is that it's a significant advance on the state of the art in pedicabs and load carrying trikes.

Here's a rig I designed and built, which I have used to carry a gross 3200 pounds a couple of times. That's my friend Jeremy riding it.

And of course there have been a number of machines along the way that I failed to document before they left my orbit.