El Escalador de Montaña Rojo

[pwbset]

This is my build. There are many like it, but this one is mine. She will power me to work everyday with a 1,500ft climb over 3 miles and 5 miles on the flats. She will enjoy her daily afternoon downhill regen. She will get the gas monkey off my back. She is mine and she is the red mountain climber. She is a rear 4011 with a 6-pack of Milwaukee emoli mounted in her triangle. She goes about 19mph. Her batts weigh 15.4lbs and she isn't much more than that. She is mine and she treats me fine. Enjoy.







View attachment 5

 

[vanilla ice]

Sweeet. Intact packs. How many amps that thing pull?

 

[Link]

LOL you gonna paint that fiberboard?

 

[safe]

I like the idea. It completely skips past all the problems of home grown solutions to BMS's.

 

[paultrafalgar]

This is my build. There are many like it, but this one is mine. She will power me to work everyday with a 1,500ft climb over 3 miles and 5 miles on the flats. She will enjoy her daily afternoon downhill regen. She will get the gas monkey off my back. She is mine and she is the red mountain climber. She is a rear 4011 with a 6-pack of Milwaukee emoli mounted in her triangle. She goes about 19mph. Her batts weigh 15.4lbs and she isn't much more than that. She is mine and she treats me fine. Enjoy.

This guy:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4720#p69861
needs your advice. He's trying to do with Milwaukee batteries what you appear to have done.

 

[deecanio]

This is my build. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

lmao, what is your major malfunction numbnuts? :lol:

great quote !!!
like the build too - im planning on having 6 packs of dewalt triangle mounted so i'm interested in this kind of setup - do you just disconnect the packs and then pop them in the chargers as normal?
i had discounted this idea as i was under the impression that the built in bms wouldn't suffice when the packs were cabled in series???
it is a nice clean method tho and if it works well i may consider something similair for my kona.


Cheers


D

 

[TylerDurden]

Es el Mejor.

Mata el mono!

 

[paultrafalgar]

Please translate, Tyler

 

[TylerDurden]

Please translate, Tyler

It's the best.

Kill that monkey.

 

[pwbset]

@vanilla ice - I've only got a 72v20a Clyte controller, but I'm noticing the CA stating 30+ peaks. It feels pretty darn torquey, but tops out at 18-20mph @ 56v.

@Link - Hell no I ain't painting! I like my red heads blonde! Actually I'm going to make a "stealth" covering for the whole thing... got to borrow my neighbor's sewing machine first.

@deecanio - Yes. The packs just slide on and off easy peasy and use the regular chargers etc. Warranty in tact. Charges all 6 batts in about 2hrs. My only issue is that 56v might not be enough for my hill climb in which case I'd need to bypass the BMS like lazarus/mlrosier and others have done to go 84v for some more oomph per amp (or just get a 35A controller maybe - speed don't matter). My pack is only 2s3p like jondoh's pack (thanks to his great videos a noob like me was able to complete this project!).

 

[Jonathan]

Great build. Now your warranty is also intact.

 

[Link]

@Link - Hell no I ain't painting! I like my red heads blonde! Actually I'm going to make a "stealth" covering for the whole thing... got to borrow my neighbor's sewing machine first.

Excellent idea. Lot more work, but I'd go with carbon fiber. 8)

Paint it anyway to weatherproof it. Unless it's already laminated. Can't tell from the pics.

 

[pwbset]

Well damn... I learned that I ain't no seamstress that's for sure. I just tried for two hours to make a canvas covering with velcro etc. and it was so botched I can't even shame myself into posting a photo. :x

Looks like you win Link... I think at the very least a coat of matte black paint on the board will work for now. It's PUKING snow right now where I live in Montana (4-6" tonight) so it's not like I'm in a hurry to finish this thing. *sigh* :?

 

[TylerDurden]

Well damn... I learned that I ain't no seamstress that's for sure. I just tried for two hours to make a canvas covering with velcro etc. and it was so botched I can't even shame myself into posting a photo.

I usually make a paper or cardboard model before cutting fabric. Helps me figure the folds and overlaps. Easy to tape more paper on if I make a mistake/change... then I unfold to make a pattern.

 

[pwbset]

I usually make a paper or cardboard model before cutting fabric.

Clearly I ain't the most charged cell in the pack. Thanks Mr. Durden... good shizzy there... I'll try it.

 

[deecanio]

Hi pwbset,

Just a thought but it seems to me that you have lots of space in that triangle - enought to house all 6 packs internally which would give you shit loads more room for your legs.
As is the packs stick out either side by the packs width - you could still use your idea for cabling which is good but you could reduce the amount the packs stick out by ore than half!!!
A little difficult to explain in text but you could cut another triangle from wood and have some straight pieces inside to strengthen and give you mounting "shelves" ???
just my 2 cents.


Cheers


D

 

[pwbset]

A little difficult to explain in text but you could cut another triangle from wood and have some straight pieces inside to strengthen and give you mounting "shelves" ???

Dude I totally was thinking that also the other day when I was madly scheming up my eventual dream of a 3s3p BMS bypassed 9-pack @ 84v/9ah and thought... little vertical "shelves" inside the triangle that you just slip a batt into. It would have to be like DeWalt bag/custom wood housing I saw awhile ago... though.. like shelves.

Dewalt custom bag....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDNHntWYhEI

For now I just need to wait for the snow to stop so I can actually do a long ride with the new pack... grrr... bloody climate change!!

 

[deecanio]

great minds etc

go for it - the bike will look much better and be much more practical when pedaling too!!!
keep posting the pics - looking nice.

Cheers


D

 

[pwbset]

First ride tonight went very smoothly. Did about 16 miles with about 4ah.. pedaled a lot since I like pedaling and there are hills galore. WOT on the flats though. I only had 2s2p going instead of 2s3p - oops, but I found out why and that leads me to #2 on this list...

Hmm... let's see if I can do this "safe" style:

Top 3 Milwaukee Battery Pack Quirks

1. Your voltmeter will read between 25.5v and 25.8v each for a pack, your Cycle Analyst will read 57.8v for a pair of 25.5v. You do the math. *shrug* Either way follow jondoh's advice and series match packs based on resting voltages... you will notice a difference in performance.

2. Milwaukee connector block assemblies "click". If you don't hear the "click" your battery is not connected despite that you might think it is... sure feels tight he said... well it ain't.

3. If you only need to go a couple miles into town and back you sure as hell don't need all 6 packs wired up if you have a bunch in parallel. Use 2s1p to go get your beers... even pulling 20A @ 2s1p is no big deal for these emolis. That's only like 7C.

 

[jondoh]

about the "click"...

slide the connector on the block then squeeze the latches half way, then they will click. something to do with the manufacturing tolerances...

remember how i drilled holes and installed a tie wrap for strain relief in the video? check to see that your terminals are not backing out of the block.

 

[pwbset]

remember how i drilled holes and installed a tie wrap for strain relief in the video?

Yes, good advice and I had checked that. I drilled just one hole, but it's all flushed with my mount as per your videos. It was definitely the "click" as I just got back from a full 2s3p test ride with all packs "clicked" in. I will say that I have my CA set to a 42v LVC for 2s3p and that's no problem @ 3v per 7 cell nominal cutoff per the RC guys, but when I ran into town on a 1s2p just now I kept getting LVC shutoff on my 72v20a controller with LVC @ 42v and when I got home my 2 packs read 24.5v each resting = 49v. Sooo.... I clearly kept hitting that actual 42v LVC with only 2 packs due to voltage sag. Hmmm. Something ain't reading right. My voltmeter has a fresh battery, but is from Radio Shack so...

I'm thinking that I might need to calibrate something so I can come up with a sane LVC even with only 2 packs in series. Maybe lowering it to like 36v will account for 2 pack sag. Ugh... so much to learn.

 

[TylerDurden]

I ran into town on a 1s2p just now I kept getting LVC shutoff on my 72v20a controller with LVC @ 42v

1s2p would only be 28V..

re fewer packs in parallel for short trips: greater DoD reduces pack-life .

 

[pwbset]

1s2p would only be 28V

Er... I meant 2s1p sorry... or even more accurately 14s1p I guess. I lowered the CA low voltage cutoff a lot as a test and the controller didn't shut off anymore at full throttle up the hills so that was definitely the problem. I will be careful about discharging, but between the CA and the built in BMS on these Milwaukee packs I think I'll be okay. Heh, heh.

 

[jondoh]

I'm not a big fan of operating with just two packs in series. I think this is too much strain on the batteries (i'm pretty conservative-- i'm running 10 packs!).

I think 6 packs (2s3p) is a good size for 10 to 20 miles (for a 175 lbs rider). I think 4 packs (2s2p) is good for 4 to 6 miles for a 175 lbs rider. two packs might be good for 2 miles-- ride slowly though and keep you packs matched!

 

[pwbset]

I think 6 packs (2s3p) is a good size for 10 to 20 miles (for a 175 lbs rider). I think 4 packs (2s2p) is good for 4 to 6 miles for a 175 lbs rider. two packs might be good for 2 miles-- ride slowly though and keep you packs matched!

Good advice thanks! For reference town is .5 mi one way, but there is a gnarly, steep viaduct over the train tracks and that's where the LVC gets hit in a 2s1p.

Jondoh.. been meaning to ask you (and other Milwaukee pack users).. the 3 packs in series = blow the BMS thing... is that strictly over-Amp related? Each BMS only good for 15A or something right? I'm already firmly believing that I'm going to need 3s if I'm to make my hill climb a reality. I tested some steep little hills last night and 2s3p was nice, but not like "okay that's the power I'm talking about". I was thinking could I try 3s2p without bypassing BMS if I limit the Amps on my CA to 15?? 3s @ 15A is still going to be stronger than 2s @ 20a right? Couple 100 watts more output and more efficient right?

Thanks in advance for any tips. Wanting to keep the warranty in tact somehow.