Electric Longboard Setup

jacques78

1 µW
Joined
Oct 1, 2015
Messages
3
Hi there

My name is Ricardo and i´m from Portugal.

I´m about to build a electric longboard, i´ve read a lot of posts and see many builts, all great ones!

However i have a few questions and would apreciate your help.

My main dificulty is buying the electronics in europe. My first desired setup there were parts that weren´t available at the Hobbyking EU warehouse. The setup i´m thinking right now is this:

Motor: Turnigy Aerodrive SK3 - 6364-213kv Brushless Outrunner Motor
ESC: Turnigy Trackstar 150A GenII 1/8th Scale Sensored Brushless Car ESC - PC Programmable
Battery: ZIPPY Flightmax 5000mAh 5S1P 20C ( 2 units )
Controler: Quanum 2.4Ghz 3ch Pistol Grip Tx & Rx System

My questions are:

* Is there a better place to buy the parts online in Europe?
* Is this the best ESC for this motor? and do i have to program anything?
* The inicial batteries i want to mount were 3S, but as this engine requires 10S i have to put 2 5S batteries right?
* What´s the best charger/balancer for the batteries? can i connect it directly to the board, or do i have to take the batteries out to charge them?

Thanks for your help!

Best regards

Ricardo
 
* Is there a better place to buy the parts online in Europe?
There might be an RC shop in Europe. I'd probably search around. Basically, a car ESC usually 6S/8S would be efficient for an electric skateboard. 1/8th 1/10th scale.

* Is this the best ESC for this motor? and do i have to program anything?
You usually have to program all ESCs before using them. Sometimes, there is an optional programming card which makes life easier and should be bought versus the older method of programming by beeps.

* The inicial batteries i want to mount were 3S, but as this engine requires 10S i have to put 2 5S batteries right?
You don't have to put 10S. You can put up to 10S. Typically 6S gets you about 20mph but if you want to climb more hills and want more power many people are running 8S/10S/12S setups. Typically, we don't go over 12S due to the difficulties of charging and no available escs.

* What´s the best charger/balancer for the batteries? can i connect it directly to the board, or do i have to take the batteries out to charge them?
Typically, if you use RC packs. You can't connect directly to the board. You can wire a Y connector to charge easily and/or remove packs. I personally prefer to take the batteries out when using Lipos - it somewhat makes it much easier.
You could wire a BMS to charge laptop style but there's much more DIY involved if you wanted to look into it.
 
In regards to your charger/balancer question...

I use this charger/balancer:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__64345__Turnigy_Accucel_6_80W_10A_Balancer_Charger_LiHV_Capable.html?strSearch=turnigy%20accucel

And this power supply:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__19680__HobbyKing_350w_25A_Power_Supply_100v_120v_US_Warehouse_.html

They seem to do the job very well.

A few words of warning...
1) The power supply does not come with the power cable that gets plugged into your outlet, so you'll have to buy that on your own. Its called a "mickey mouse" power cord.
2) Make sure you have the right cables for your charger/balancer. It comes with cables, but you could be using different connectors on your batteries, so double check to make sure you include the right ones if they aren't included already.
3) The charger can only handle up to 6s Lipos! So if you will be using 8s or more, this charger is not for you.

Hope that helps! I'm a bit of a noob myself :p

Good luck! :D :D
 
Welcome to ES!

Looks like you have a good idea what you want and are pretty close to a solid setup.

Couple things i'd mention and suggest.

* Is this the best ESC for this motor? and do i have to program anything?
You usually have to program all ESCs before using them. Sometimes, there is an optional programming card which makes life easier and should be bought versus the older method of programming by beeps.
Good point Torque and i'd say you *always* have to program your car ESC's before using them on a e-board. It's simple - brakes! Stopping a 1-2kg car vs 60-120kg human... You want to dial/configure the brakes so they work as expected when riding. Too harsh and you'll get thrown off the board when braking, too soft and you won't be able to stop! Pretty important!!
* The initial batteries i want to mount were 3S, but as this engine requires 10S i have to put 2 5S batteries right?
You don't have to put 10S. You can put up to 10S. Typically 6S gets you about 20mph but if you want to climb more hills and want more power many people are running 8S/10S/12S setups. Typically, we don't go over 12S due to the difficulties of charging and no available escs.
I'm going to point out the obvious - you are limited by your ESC. I would also run the highest # of batteries in series your ESC supports whenever possible. So your Turnigy Trackstar ESC supports 2-6s, so i would run 6s. If you get a Castle Mamba XL2 - it supports 8s and i'd run 8s.
I also prefer two packs in series typically vs one large lipo. Lower profile / slimmer than a single pack in most cases. Also can be less $. An added benefit is if you lend your skateboard to someone you can just plug in one battery (3s or 4s) and they can try it in "learner" mode where it's not that powerful. Instead of handing a newbie a 6s or 8s board that takes some practice to ride. Or you can put the two batteries in parallel for double the distance! Flexible.
* What´s the best charger/balancer for the batteries? can i connect it directly to the board, or do i have to take the batteries out to charge them?
Typically, if you use RC packs. You can't connect directly to the board. You can wire a Y connector to charge easily and/or remove packs. I personally prefer to take the batteries out when using Lipos - it somewhat makes it much easier.
You could wire a BMS to charge laptop style but there's much more DIY involved if you wanted to look into it.

I too prefer to remove batteries and charge them. Good to inspect them and charge them in a fireproof container (i use cheap Pyrex glass baking pans from value village / second hand store - $2 ea!). look for puffed cells and if you use a temp sensor/probe while charging you are extra safe as any battery that has a problem will heat up before it becomes a hazard. Temp probe will auto-stop the charging (which you are monitoring anyway right!?).

I think that a good charger is one of the best investments. That and a good ESC. Most chargers will require an AC/DC powersupply - taking your house power 120/240v and converting it into 12-18v usually. There are some inexpensive options on hobbyking which work well. OR you can grab a server power supply off of ebay for less and get significantly more power (if you don't mind a grey box with server fan whine). I recently got a dual server power setup (two 750w Dell Server power supplies) that are ~60A ea, so i run them individually and in series depending on the charger i'm using. My iCharger likes >12v, other chargers max at 15-18v so i just use one 12v.

If on a budget and want simplicity (and are OK with slow charging), the Imax/SkyRC B6AC v2 looks like a great option. It has both a DC input (max 18v) and a laptop power supply/brick built in to power it. Max 6A, 50 watts means it will charge slower. But has Internal Resistance measurements and a good set of features (optional temp probe). Seems solid and i have one to test.

Depending on your board and wheel size - how much road clearance under the board, i'd recommend the slim Zippy's 3s or 4s (in series for 6s/8s). Also work well down the road if you get something that will do 12s by adding additional in series.

3s - ZIPPY Flightmax 5000mAh 3S1P 20C ~ $25ea
Spec.
Capacity: 5000mAh
Voltage: 3S1P / 3 Cell / 11.1v
Discharge: 20C Constant / 30C Burst
Weight: 404g (including wire, plug & shrink wrap)
Dimensions: 145x52x25mm
Balance Plug: JST-XH
Discharge Plug: 4mm Bullet-Connector

4s - Zippy Flightmax 5000mAh 4S1P 20C ~$35ea
Spec.
Capacity: 5000mAh
Voltage: 4S1P / 4 Cell / 14.8v
Discharge: 20C Constant / 30C Burst
Weight: 469g (including wire, plug & shrink wrap)
Dimensions: 143x51x33mm
Balance Plug: JST-XH
Discharge Plug: 4mm Bullet-Connector

Most Hobby ESC's will be $80-100 and support up to 6s typically. >6s (8s capable Mamba XL2 as example) are $$$! $150-200 sometimes. Almost all will need a programming card to adjust brakes, or the software + cable to adjust brakes ($10-20 more).

I would seriously consider the VESC as it supports up to 12s and is only a little more expensive than the hobby ESC! It does require some additional configuration connected to the motor. You would be limited to 10s if running a motor >200kv. I might recommend getting the 190/192 SK3 instead as it would let you eventually go to 12s if you wanted more power/speed. Enertion has them currently on order and expected to ship in first of October (likely first or second week). I think there is still a 10% sale currently which brings it down even more.

I've had 7 of them now (two on stolen board) with one failed DRV chip while testing 12s (they don't like hard stop/go repeatedly with no load). So 5 now with minimal issues. New v4.8 sounds like another improved version and a good option that's hopefully in your price range and something skill-wise you can do?

It never hurts to double check your use case and typical specs. How heavy are you? Do you expect/plan to ride it on lots of hills? How fast do you want to go? Do you have a preference for smaller wheels w/ lower ride height, or want big wheels to go over rough roads/surfaces? I think the most common is the 83mm flywheel or flywheel clone. I've run the 76mm flywheel and like those too. My favorite for a deck with room to run them is the 97mm flywheels.

I personally would avoid the cost and complexity of a BMS (Battery Management System). While it's nice to have a single plug to charge inside the board, there's a lot to doing it correctly ($$).

Lots of info - Hope it helps and GL!
 
Thanks for your help!

I think my final setup will be very similar to the one i posted, for sure i will need some help on the construction!

I will post later developments.

Ricardo
 
Hi there

Finally got all things running, but i´m having some problems...

My setup is:
Turnigy Aerodrive SK3 - 6364-245kv
Turnigy Trackstar 150A GenII 1/8th Scale Sensored Brushless Car ESC
ZIPPY Flightmax 5000mAh 5S1P 20C ( 2 units )
Motor gear : 14 tooth
Wheel gear - 40 tooth
Wheels - 76 mm

My issues / doubts are:

I´m getting a top speed of about 25 kph, which i think should be more... What do you say?

Has anyone have a valid program for the ESC? I have correctly adjust the braking, but the acceleration is not good, the wheel spins, not sure if calibration of the ESC or if the timing belt is not enough stretched...

Other thing is teh batteries... running two 3S batteries in series i have the ESC voltage cut-off set to 19,8V ( 3,3 V each cell ), but for example today when it cut off i had in one battery a cell below 3,3V and the others about 3,6V. The cut off value is for the total cell count or individualy, and i should put 3,3V?

As far as batery duration i think i´m having about 10 to 15 km per charge, which was what i expect.

I will wait for your comments!

Thanks guys

Ricardo
 
jacques78 said:
I´m getting a top speed of about 25 kph, which i think should be more... What do you say?

Has anyone have a valid program for the ESC? I have correctly adjust the braking, but the acceleration is not good, the wheel spins, not sure if calibration of the ESC or if the timing belt is not enough stretched...

Other thing is teh batteries... running two 3S batteries in series i have the ESC voltage cut-off set to 19,8V ( 3,3 V each cell ), but for example today when it cut off i had in one battery a cell below 3,3V and the others about 3,6V. The cut off value is for the total cell count or individualy, and i should put 3,3V?

With 18v, 14:40 gearing and 76mm wheels I am getting about that speed on my calculator/spreadsheet here, 22.7km @ nominal voltage, so peak voltage would be about the 25mk/h mark.

As in the wheel spins when the throttle is in neutral? Have you tried adjusting the 'throttle dead range' or the trim function on your remote? If the braking works properly it won't be a belt issue.

3.3 is a good level, what you have is unbalanced cells. Use a balance charger rather than a bulk charger. The voltage cut off works on the total pack voltage, as does a bulk charger, while a balance charger charges each cell individually to ensure you don't get the voltage differences like you are measuring. The cells are not sitting on 3.3 volts after the cut off because the voltage will sag a little under load, then restore itself when not being used. If you are using a BMS, then you have problems, otherwise a balance charge every few rides will solve it.

The range sounds about right.
 
Hi Ricardo,

Can you post some pictures of your board?

Second question, I am Portuguese as well, from Tomar, you? (Living in the UK :D )

Best Regards
AndreD.
 
Hi Ricardo,

I'm using the exact same ESC with the standard program and so far it has been working but with the following problems:
Disclaimer: I'm mostly guessing what the problem is based on symptoms, I haven't measured signals and currents to verify.

1) My Tx has a throttle adjustment and it's super important to set it right before calibrating the ESC. What happened otherwise was that the neutral signal seemed to diverge from the signal sent when the Tx had lost connection with the Rx. In the middle of cruising, the battery level in the TX started getting low so it disconnected but the Rx didn't send the neutral signal, instead it increased the power to the motor.

2) The breaks worked well with the standard program for the first ~2 months. Recently when I start off it seems that the motor is sometimes intermittently breaking, this happens also sometimes while cruising and if I increase the throttle I will get a huge acceleration when the breaks intermittently release again. Also sometimes I can hear that when I actually do break, it is not breaking as much as it used to. Not sure if these problems are related to the ESC or if the motor is getting worn though.
 
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