Electronic/regenerative brakes gueastions

[Ville89]

I'm building custom dual motor e-scooter. Two diffent controllers and 2 different display. I know how to connect everything but brakes are a bit mystery to me. I need that kind of electronic brake to my front motor that just not cut off the power but really slow down the motor. I have that type of brake and controller now in my rear motor. It has regenerative 3 wire brake input and it slows down the scooter but not enought. I don't want to apply 2nd similar controller and display to this system because the current display is original and is mounted to the scooter so I want 2nd display (e-bike's s866 or similar) to be located in a handbar where I can adjust the front motor separately. This is also an esthetic solution. I can't apply any mechanical brakes to this scooter due to a front fork fitting problems. And to the rear motor it also would be difficult to put any mechanical brake system. So I need 2 electronic brakes that not just only cut the power: to rear and front. Thank you if somebody would like to answer my guestions. I'm a little confused and not finding spesific answers to these guestions.


MAIN GUESTIONS

What kind of controller and brake lever I need to have stopping/slow down power in electronic brake?

Does the controller must have regenerative braking capability and 3 wire input to truly slow down the motor when brake lever is pulled?

Can it be 2 wire input and it's then slowing down the motor when lever is pulled. Does it still need to be regenerative controller? I've tested 2 wire brake lever which goes to 2 wire input in controller (not regenerative controller). Only thing it does it just cut off the power. Useless to me when I need some slow down/stopping power. I can get the very same result just releasing the throttle.

Are there even 2 wire regenerative input controllers?

Are there 2 wire brake input controllers that have slow down capability and not just power cut off and this without regenerative capability?

Is it possible to connect rear and front controllers electronic brakes both to one 2 or 3 wire lever? How the connections would be? Does the 2nd controller only need a signal wire from the other controller's brake input just like a throttle in dual motor/controller system or do I need to connect all 2 or 3 wires to the same lever?

If I buy controller that says it has EABS and 3 wire brake input, does it then automatically have capability to slow down the scooter or is it similar to my experience of 2 wire input controller and it just cut of the power but not actually brake? Is EABS 3 wire controller automatically regenerative?

And what about if controller says it has linear EABS. Is it then regenerative or is it just normal braking system without regenerative capability but still truly brakes and not just cut off the power?

Can low level and high level brakes both be regenerative or is the regenerative totally different thing?

 

[Chalo]

Brakes are better brakes in every way, than motors are. Go ahead and have regen brakes for entertainment purposes, but don't leave off the actual brakes. Those are the ones you use to stop when it matters.

 

[Ville89]

Brakes are better brakes in every way, than motors are. Go ahead and have regen brakes for entertainment purposes, but don't leave off the actual brakes. Those are the ones you use to stop when it matters.

Thank you for your response but that was not an answer to my questions. I have tested my scooter now with one electronic brake and I know it stopping power and according to that I can predict what the stopping power would be with two of those kind of brakes and I estimate it is good enough. So the guestions that I asked are technical not that should I or should I not implement this kind of system to e-scooter. At least I want to try. After i've tested it and If I feel it is not safe or good enought then I bury this project. Only thing now I'm missing now is the right type of 2nd controller so that's why I'm asking here these detailed questions that I don't buy wrong type of controller and get dissapointed.

 

[docw009]

My KT ebike controllers offer regen braking as a feature. They also can use 2 wire brakes, As I use geared motors, I never tried that kind of braking. They require KT displays, The S866 won't work, but KT has better ones anyway,

 

[Ville89]

So I have tested this rear regenerative brake with this scooter by taking off the front drum brake. I have second motor that fits in to that front fork well and want to mod this scooter to dual motor. I want to test how it would brake if there was electronic brake also in the front. I have one controller that i tested to that front motor but it didn't brake at all so the controller wasn't right type to be to give some stopping power. Only cutted the power. I want to know detailed spesifics about those kind of controllers that can do actual braking and the questions are above.

 

[Ville89]

My KT ebike controllers offer regen braking as a feature. They also can use 2 wire brakes, As I use geared motors, I never tried that kind of braking. They require KT displays, The S866 won't work, but KT has better ones anyway,

Thank you. Still wondering that does it have to be regen in controller to have real braking capability. Are all other methods just cutting the power off and not actual braking? Because I don't necessary need regen if it is not needed to have some kind of real braking effect. I have noticed that those s866 displays and controller combos sucks. You can't really adjust the amperes with those even there is menu for those. I might consider KT display and controller. Can you adjust ampere power with KT kit that it really has some effect? Can you adjust the braking level intensity with that KT?

 

[Chalo]

Still wondering that does it have to be regen in controller to have real braking capability. Are all other methods just cutting the power off and not actual braking?

There are different regimes for electric braking an e-bike. Power cutoff from brake lever switches isn't really braking, but it's step one. Then there are, in order of effectiveness: Regen braking, which is limited to both the battery's ability to absorb the charge and the controller's ability to transfer it. Plug braking, which basically shorts the motor phases together and dumps kinetic energy as resistive heat into the motor. And active electric braking, which uses battery power to fight the wheel to a stop.

 

[E-HP]

Thank you for your response but that was not an answer to my questions. I have tested my scooter now with one electronic brake and I know it stopping power and according to that I can predict what the stopping power would be with two of those kind of brakes and I estimate it is good enough.

No, I don’t think you can. The rear brake has almost no value in a panic stop, simply be virtue of it being on the rear wheel. You can’t estimate the effectiveness of the real braking wheel (front) by comparing it to the rear wheel, which you might use to slow down, but ineffective when you really need brakes. You should upgrade your front disc instead.
I don’t often agree with Chalo when it comes to regen, but I absolutely agree with him on not leaving off real brakes as you tinker with regen.

 

[Chalo]

I think his motor is in the front wheel. Which is still no substitute for actual brakes, but it makes motor braking more feasible.

 

[E-HP]

I think his motor is in the front wheel. Which is still no substitute for actual brakes, but it makes motor braking more feasible.

Well then adding it out back doesn’t make a lot of sense. Same solution though. Better front brake.

 

[glennb]

The photo depicts RWD, front drum brake. I don’t know about the controller side of things, but the fork will need torque arms for a front motor I’d suggest, and its dropouts aren’t necessarily accommodating for that. You’ll want to have a good look at the fork before implementing FWD.