emp proof ebike?

[Ricky_nz]

How can I say that? Well, I am not saying that, I am merely concurring with scientists and space engineers who have been analyzing those facts for the last few decades.

Now, you ask about volts but you are obviously not seeing the bigger picture, it is not the volts that are a problem cause you could easily touch high voltage if it were at a high frequency and low amps. The last solar storm in 2003 had currents up to 100A on the polar sides, and even if the voltages were low it would still be lethal to most of the electronic equipment at that wavelength. Some electric grids in Sweden were down, airplanes were not flying over there not only because of the EMP that would influence flight control, equipment and navigation instruments but also because there was a higher dosage of radioactivity which is dangerous to human beings or at least unhealthy. But let's get back to the question of EMP protection...

Any device should be designed to an appropriate level of protection.
With aircraft they are paranoid. look at the over the top reaction to ash clouds.

Power grids and telephone networks have large antennas and underground cables travelling long distances making them susceptible. An ebike has typical cable lengths of a meter or so so the amount of energy it can capture is low.
Satallites are very susceptible because they are outside the atmosphere.

It is possible to design protection to cope with different levels but this is always balanced with cost.
You need to develop a model of what sort of voltages and currents you expect to see on the device to choose the protection devices. Would you be prepared to spend the cost of your current controller on protection devices?

Telecommunications systems are designed to handle a specified surge voltage profile which covers the expected surges that can be seen in a network. The equipment designed were improved over the years to handle new threats such as accidental conection to mains voltage.
Two standard CCITT/ITU K20 /K21 cover this., One uses 10us rise /700us fall 100A 4Kv pulses connected to any line as the test case. The place I use to work at used 6KV for some extra margin. We also use to wire mains up to the line terminals through different impedances. 240V on a phone line for any length of time and our equipment would laugh at it. 600V RMS was pushing the protection network a bit harder but it could still handle it. It would also handle the 16KV ESD gun test.

The appropriate protection devices have been mentioned in this thread. Don't expect any cheep system to include them.
I already disconnect my amateur radio equipment from large aerials when there is possibility of electrical storms or when not in use.
I have seen decent arcs from an antenna cable to ground when disconnected from a radio when an electrical storm was nearby before so I know what happens on large aerials but to design protection for an ebike you really need to decide on the threat level and what level of protection you feel is appropriate.

My controller design has some clamping of all its inputs which provides more protection than the Chinese ones but I don't think the cost of adding transils / trisals / movs and PTCs is justified.

I do happen to have an all vacume tube transmitter that would work if every piece of silicon on the planet was to be come vaporised but at that point the planet is toast.

If any significant radiation was to make it through the atmosphere then you better not have anything powered up as the microcontroller in your motor controller is not radiation hardened and could possibly turn on all transistors at once.

Sure you can just shield everything and clamp everything but even clamp devices have a rating and unless you model the threat you do not know how much protection is required.

Really if the energy is enough to kill your ebike then just cut the motor wires and ride is as a normal bike .
I don't see there is any point in spending money on excessive protection when a lot more things would be destroyed at that point.

 

[dangerzone]

Any device should be designed to an appropriate level of protection.
With aircraft they are paranoid. look at the over the top reaction to ash clouds.

Power grids and telephone networks have large antennas and underground cables travelling long distances making them susceptible. An ebike has typical cable lengths of a meter or so so the amount of energy it can capture is low.
Satallites are very susceptible because they are outside the atmosphere.

It is possible to design protection to cope with different levels but this is always balanced with cost.
You need to develop a model of what sort of voltages and currents you expect to see on the device to choose the protection devices. Would you be prepared to spend the cost of your current controller on protection devices?

Telecommunications systems are designed to handle a specified surge voltage profile which covers the expected surges that can be seen in a network. The equipment designed were improved over the years to handle new threats such as accidental conection to mains voltage.
Two standard CCITT/ITU K20 /K21 cover this., One uses 10us rise /700us fall 100A 4Kv pulses connected to any line as the test case. The place I use to work at used 6KV for some extra margin. We also use to wire mains up to the line terminals through different impedances. 240V on a phone line for any length of time and our equipment would laugh at it. 600V RMS was pushing the protection network a bit harder but it could still handle it. It would also handle the 16KV ESD gun test.

The appropriate protection devices have been mentioned in this thread. Don't expect any cheep system to include them.
I already disconnect my amateur radio equipment from large aerials when there is possibility of electrical storms or when not in use.
I have seen decent arcs from an antenna cable to ground when disconnected from a radio when an electrical storm was nearby before so I know what happens on large aerials but to design protection for an ebike you really need to decide on the threat level and what level of protection you feel is appropriate.

My controller design has some clamping of all its inputs which provides more protection than the Chinese ones but I don't think the cost of adding transils / trisals / movs and PTCs is justified.

I do happen to have an all vacume tube transmitter that would work if every piece of silicon on the planet was to be come vaporised but at that point the planet is toast.

If any significant radiation was to make it through the atmosphere then you better not have anything powered up as the microcontroller in your motor controller is not radiation hardened and could possibly turn on all transistors at once.

Sure you can just shield everything and clamp everything but even clamp devices have a rating and unless you model the threat you do not know how much protection is required.

Really if the energy is enough to kill your ebike then just cut the motor wires and ride is as a normal bike .
I don't see there is any point in spending money on excessive protection when a lot more things would be destroyed at that point.

Actually, they were not paranoid when it comes to airplanes, not at all. There were plenty of cases in Northern Europe that cars with a standard air filter had engine problems, consumed excessive oil or just broke. Insurance companies would not repay the people because cars aren't insured against volcano dust. The problem is that people did not understand the difference between fire ash and volcano dust. While ashes are soft, the volcano dust is tough, too small to be stopped by the filter and hard as diamonds. Upon entering the engine it sanddusts the pistons, cylinders, rings, axles and bearings in a short time. Have you ever seen what sanding does to metals..? The same thing happens with volcano dust, a commercial airliner with turbofan engines would most probably have to change all of them when it lands, and IF it lands, cause most of the engines would surely burn out with such grinding of all internal parts. That is why in such an emergency only turboprop and piston airplanes can fly if they have adequate protection against volcano sand/dust.

But let's get back to the issue of EMP protection. It does not have to be expensive. Aluminum foil is not expensive, copper mesh/nets are not expensive, plastic and dielectric insulation are also cheap, even MuMetal sheets are not that expensive yet they are hard to find/buy. So, as my bike is a monocoque chassis meaning it contains all the electronics inside a steel box all I have to add is other protective layers inside. The phase wires also run through the frame and can be isolated in a standard coaxial way, the only thing that stays 'in the open' is the hall sensors. And I'd appreciate if anyone comes with an idea for that matter. No worries about voltage and current issues, airplanes get struck by lightning between seven and 12 times a year, some of them at a few thousand volts and hundreds of amps but others are struck by way stronger ones. And of course, people are ok inside, all electronic devices are safe and there is rarely a problem. Yet, an EMP is not electricity or radioactive radiation, it is a different wavelength so all electronic devices containing chips and integrated circuits should be properly shielded. DC motors do not have to, unless they are BLDC and need controllers for operation.That is why every gasoline car shocked by an EMP is dead but the electrics work just fine, windows can be operated, most of the electrics remain fine. So, the best way if you have and BLDC motor is to protect your controller.

In other words, EMP protection can be cheap and could easily be installed on an electric bike.

 

[auraslip]

On September 1–2, 1859, the largest recorded geomagnetic storm occurred. Aurorae were seen around the world, most notably over the Caribbean; also noteworthy were those over the Rocky Mountains that were so bright that their glow awoke gold miners, who began preparing breakfast because they thought it was morning.[4]

Telegraph systems all over Europe and North America failed in some cases even shocking telegraph operators.[5] Telegraph pylons threw sparks and telegraph paper spontaneously caught fire.[6] Some telegraph systems appeared to continue to send and receive messages despite having been disconnected from their power supplies.[7]

Awesome.

If the controllers housing acts as a Faraday cage, and the housing of a hub motor does as well, couldn't you just ground them? Hook them up to the ground in your house?

 

[dangerzone]

Awesome.

If the controllers housing acts as a Faraday cage, and the housing of a hub motor does as well, couldn't you just ground them? Hook them up to the ground in your house?

Actually, grounding is counterproductive. The airplane is protected from lightnings as an aluminum Faraday cage so they just pass 'over' it's aluminum skin instead of passing through.