Enduro frame build- advice for beginner

[chopbike]

Hey all,

I am looking for some advice on a build I am hoping to do. I am a beginner, never built a bike or anything like this before, but I have been doing some research and reading things from these forums to try and understand how to do it, and I think once I have the correct components, in terms of battery/motor pairings I can figure out the other bike parts as I go. All advice is welcome as I am still learning. I am mainly hoping for advice/recommendations on the frame, battery, and motor/controller kits I have been looking at. Since I am a beginner I am not entirely sure which brands etc are considered good and which to avoid, so I'm hoping y'all can help with that.

I am looking at building a bike with an enduro/stealth type frame (original I know).
http://electric-bikes.com/betterbikes/evelframe.html

It seems like a good frame for the price but I am not sure if this is a brand that is known. I also see lots of similar frames from china on amazon etc but I assume this would be a higher quality. Any other good frames to check out in similar price range?

For the motor kit I was looking at the leafbike 1500w rear motor

https://www.leafbike.com/products/diy-bike-conversion-kit/26-inch-48v-52v-1500w-rear-electric-hub-motor-kit-1181.html

I read some of the leafbike thread on here and it seems like its a good motor, but I wanted to make sure it could also pair with this em3ev 52v (14s5p) battery pack, either the 12.3ah or the 14.3h but not sure which is better. I know a higher ah can mean more range etc.. Also would want to make sure the controller would work with batter pack obviously.

https://em3ev.com/shop/50v-14s5p-rectangle-battery-pack/

I'm not looking for anything crazy powerful but would like to get to 30 mph, and have 20-30 miles of range if possible, while trying to keep the bike somewhat light (relatively for the build) and it seems like this combo might do the trick. I do live in some hilly terrain so I know that will have a negative effect, but this is not a daily commuter at the moment so its not a big deal to not have huge range.

Price wise I would like to keep the build under $2000 and with the options I have been looking at I think that is possible. That being said I would be willing to pay slightly more if it means peace of mind in a superior product/brand.

Thats where I am right now, as I said I want to make sure I have the correct components for the battery, controller and motor pairings before I look into the smaller parts, but any advice on those would be helpful as well. Looking forward to what you guys have to say! thanks

 

[Balmorhea]

I'm not looking for anything crazy powerful but would like to get to 30 mph, and have 20-30 miles of range if possible, while trying to keep the bike somewhat light (relatively for the build)

If that’s true, why would you accept a 17 pound weight penalty right off the bat relative to using a regular bike frame? Those suitcase bikes are not only ugly and often screwed up geometrically— they’re needlessly heavy. They are also too wide to pedal efficiently for most people.

Another consideration is that if your local cops are likely to have a problem with unlicensed motorcycles, a suitcase bike will attract unwelcome attention.

It’s cheaper, easier, lighter, and generally more satisfactory to start with a mountain bike that looks and works like a bicycle. If all you need is 30mph top speed and 20-30 miles range, that’s very doable without having to straddle a big ammo can.

The Leaf 1500W hub is a great motor at a very reasonable price, but it’s made to fit 135mm dropouts like those on a regular MTB. The suitcase bike you linked to has 156mm dropouts and a fatbike-like 100mm bottom bracket. Reconciling the hub and the frame will complicate brake mounting and chainline.

 

[Tommm]

You can get very good deals on other used eeb bikes. Or even better, get a used surron.
Building a new eeb is like building a sailboat, plenty already existing to choose from.

 

[MadRhino]

All those ‘Enduro frames’ are derived from a cheap Chinese heavy shortcut to make it simple building a fast e-MTB. None of them can be considered a good frame for this purpose by experienced FS bikes riders.

But they are cheap, and popular because newbs are looking for an easy solution. Yet building with them is not that cheap, after the problems are solved and quality components installed to make it an acceptable ride. And, even after a proper build is achieved, they are still heavy, bulky ‘motorcycle like’ ebikes that are not welcome on the streets by most local police.

 

[Returnformer]

the frame looks cheap, but it doesnt include much. by the time youre done adding the fork, bars, susupension, etc, youre looking at close to 1000 just for the bike. i picked up a used fs mtb on facebook marketplace for 550 thats already got everything and converted that.

 

[chopbike]

I'm not looking for anything crazy powerful but would like to get to 30 mph, and have 20-30 miles of range if possible, while trying to keep the bike somewhat light (relatively for the build)

If that’s true, why would you accept a 17 pound weight penalty right off the bat relative to using a regular bike frame? Those suitcase bikes are not only ugly and often screwed up geometrically— they’re needlessly heavy. They are also too wide to pedal efficiently for most people.

Another consideration is that if your local cops are likely to have a problem with unlicensed motorcycles, a suitcase bike will attract unwelcome attention.

It’s cheaper, easier, lighter, and generally more satisfactory to start with a mountain bike that looks and works like a bicycle. If all you need is 30mph top speed and 20-30 miles range, that’s very doable without having to straddle a big ammo can.

The Leaf 1500W hub is a great motor at a very reasonable price, but it’s made to fit 135mm dropouts like those on a regular MTB. The suitcase bike you linked to has 156mm dropouts and a fatbike-like 100mm bottom bracket. Reconciling the hub and the frame will complicate brake mounting and chainline.

Well, believe it or not, but styling is a subjective thing and I happen to like the look of the frame, as do many others, but I’m aware of the weight. Not as concerned with the wide-ness as I am a taller person but thank you for the warning. Do you have any recommendations on fs mtb brand or anything that could be good to research? I’m not locked into that frame so would be open to other options

And other than the discrepancy with the motor and bottom dropout, how does the bottom bracket size effect the build? Pardon my ignorance for that question.

 

[chopbike]

You can get very good deals on other used eeb bikes. Or even better, get a used surron.
Building a new eeb is like building a sailboat, plenty already existing to choose from.

Is there a good place in particular to find those used? Or in general what are good sites for used ebikes

 

[chopbike]

All those ‘Enduro frames’ are derived from a cheap Chinese heavy shortcut to make it simple building a fast e-MTB. None of them can be considered a good frame for this purpose by experienced FS bikes riders.

But they are cheap, and popular because newbs are looking for an easy solution. Yet building with them is not that cheap, after the problems are solved and quality components installed to make it an acceptable ride. And, even after a proper build is achieved, they are still heavy, bulky ‘motorcycle like’ ebikes that are not welcome on the streets by most local police.

Thank you for the information. Do you have an advice on alternatives?

 

[chopbike]

the frame looks cheap, but it doesnt include much. by the time youre done adding the fork, bars, susupension, etc, youre looking at close to 1000 just for the bike. i picked up a used fs mtb on facebook marketplace for 550 thats already got everything and converted that.

What type of fs mtb did you use for your build?

 

[chopbike]

Since it seems like many are suggesting a different type of frame for a potential build or conversion, would the rest of what I had put for motor and battery pack be good options for a conversion of a full suspension mountain bike. The frame information has been very helpful but would appreciate some advice on the electrical side as well. Thanks

 

[Tommm]

You can get very good deals on other used eeb bikes. Or even better, get a used surron.
Building a new eeb is like building a sailboat, plenty already existing to choose from.

Is there a good place in particular to find those used? Or in general what are good sites for used ebikes

Here on the forum under marketplace, or endless sphere sales facebook group, maybe ebay.

 

[devo1223]

Go with the enduro frame, it makes for a cleaner easier build. With a regular full suspension bike you always have the problem of where to put the batteries. By the time you strap it on you ruin whatever aesthetics you had. I started with a regular mtb then switched to a vector lite frame and it looks way better. I use a mxus but those leaf motors have great reviews and I've wanted to try one. Hub motors suck up the amps so your battery needs to put out high amps, 40 amp continuous is good, 50 is better, 72v even better. I think those leaf motors can handle 3-5kw so you want that power for the hub motor to make sense, if you just want 1-2kw then just get a bafang bbhd and a regular mtb and keep it light. Its all about power to weight ratio.

 

[chopbike]

You can get very good deals on other used eeb bikes. Or even better, get a used surron.
Building a new eeb is like building a sailboat, plenty already existing to choose from.

Is there a good place in particular to find those used? Or in general what are good sites for used ebikes

Here on the forum under marketplace, or endless sphere sales facebook group, maybe ebay.

Okay I will try and check those out. Thank you for the help

 

[chopbike]

Go with the enduro frame, it makes for a cleaner easier build. With a regular full suspension bike you always have the problem of where to put the batteries. By the time you strap it on you ruin whatever aesthetics you had. I started with a regular mtb then switched to a vector lite frame and it looks way better. I use a mxus but those leaf motors have great reviews and I've wanted to try one. Hub motors suck up the amps so your battery needs to put out high amps, 40 amp continuous is good, 50 is better, 72v even better. I think those leaf motors can handle 3-5kw so you want that power for the hub motor to make sense, if you just want 1-2kw then just get a bafang bbhd and a regular mtb and keep it light. Its all about power to weight ratio.

That was my thought with the fs mob, doesn’t look like there is much space at all for battery, along with the styling that is why I was looking at the enduro frames. The vector lite seems like a good frame but I would probably need a different battery to fit that. And I like the idea of a moto style seat for more comfort but not sure if that would work on that frame, not really a big deal tho.

In regards to the controller, the one I had linked does 40a, so it should work, would you have a recommendation for an upgrade with more continuous output? Thanks

 

[Balmorhea]

And other than the discrepancy with the motor and bottom dropout, how does the bottom bracket size effect the build? Pardon my ignorance for that question.

A wide BB increases Q factor, also called tread width. This affects some people more than others. It moves the chainline outwards. That can limit the gears available to you, increase wear and noise, and make the chain more likely to come off.

I'm one of the tallest people I know, but if I have anything wider than the diameter of a 12 ounce beverage can in the area swept by my knees and thighs, my legs will touch it when I pedal. So a suitcase bike is out of the question for me, unless it's a weakling motorcycle only.

If you're unusually tall, you should not be looking at bikes that come in only one size.

 

[markz]

One size does not fit all!

 

[devo1223]

That was my thought with the fs mob, doesn’t look like there is much space at all for battery, along with the styling that is why I was looking at the enduro frames. The vector lite seems like a good frame but I would probably need a different battery to fit that. And I like the idea of a moto style seat for more comfort but not sure if that would work on that frame, not really a big deal tho.

In regards to the controller, the one I had linked does 40a, so it should work, would you have a recommendation for an upgrade with more continuous output? Thanks

Just grab a cheap controller.https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32866728420.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.27b13c00ursOwL&mp=1
The important thing is to buy a battery that can handle the amps

 

[chopbike]

And other than the discrepancy with the motor and bottom dropout, how does the bottom bracket size effect the build? Pardon my ignorance for that question.

A wide BB increases Q factor, also called tread width. This affects some people more than others. It moves the chainline outwards. That can limit the gears available to you, increase wear and noise, and make the chain more likely to come off.

I'm one of the tallest people I know, but if I have anything wider than the diameter of a 12 ounce beverage can in the area swept by my knees and thighs, my legs will touch it when I pedal. So a suitcase bike is out of the question for me, unless it's a weakling motorcycle only.

If you're unusually tall, you should not be looking at bikes that come in only one size.

Okay thank you for the information on the BB, I think I understand the limitations of having the wider BB.

I am slightly taller than 6ft, so not unusually tall, so I am probably in the same boat as you. Definitely something I will look at and see if I am going to run into the same problem. That being said I do not expect to pedal this bike as much as a regular bike so I'm not too worried about it but that is definitely something I will consider. Thanks for the info

 

[MadRhino]

It is complicated to build on a DH racing bike, but they are the good solution for fast ebikes. The results are very different with various builders, and the time they spend building one. Yet, almost all of them are very good rides. That is because DH racing does require stiff frames and decades had been spent on proper geometry and effective suspension designs. Quality components are standard on those bikes, and even when they are used and rebuilt many times, they perform much better than brand new Chinese crap.

The fact is, most of those building on a EEB frame will not do the mods required, nor spend the money on quality components. On the opposite, those building on a used quality FS bicycle are starting with a good frame an a whole set of quality components. I’d say both have just as much problems to solve, but the first is less likely to solve them and will end up with a much heavier bike anyway.

 

[Returnformer]

the frame looks cheap, but it doesnt include much. by the time youre done adding the fork, bars, susupension, etc, youre looking at close to 1000 just for the bike. i picked up a used fs mtb on facebook marketplace for 550 thats already got everything and converted that.

What type of fs mtb did you use for your build?

i used a cannondale, but the brand doesnt matter as much as having a place where the battery will fit, which can vary greatly by rear suspension design. many (such as mine) have the rear suspension mounted to the downtube, which kills that for battery mounting. luckily, i was able to mount my battery on the underside of the downtube, but i had to limit my front suspension to the smallest setting so that it doesnt hit the battery.

ive noticed that many santa cruz bikes have the rear suspension mounted to the top tube, which leaves the downtube available for a battery, although you still have to consider spacing between the downtube and the rear suspension mount so that the battery can fit. ive seen some for around 1k on ebay that looked like they would work good.

my bike:

 

[MadRhino]

There are priorities and requirements for every builder/rider. That build shown on previous post is typical of a good commuter. It does retain the bicycle appearance, simple and functional with quality components. That is the kind of build that suits the majority of city commuters, even those who are riding off road occasionally.

Mine are more hard core. I choose frames for their suspension design first, so most of them have a big shock right in the middle of a small triangle, high pivot and little space for batteries. I split my batteries in 3: top tube, down tube, and front. One dozen bricks of RC lipo, for 24s 24A/h total. Modular battery system does let me ride with less weight and capacity. I ride 16A/h most of the time because my rides are short enough.

Dirty pics of my old V10 with front and top batteries only. 8 yrs of hard beating and still going strong. :wink:

 

[devo1223]

I tried both, preferred the vector

 

[serious_sam]

That is because DH racing does require stiff frames and decades had been spent on proper geometry and effective suspension designs. Quality components are standard on those bikes, and even when they are used and rebuilt many times, they perform much better than brand new Chinese crap.

I'd agree with most of that statement. DH frames are generally strong, relatively stiff (for FS), and brand name bikes generally come with quality components.

However, the thing I would disagree with is geometry. DH bike geometry is optimised for downhill. IMO the geometry is too slack and the weight bias far too rearward for any other type of riding. Then you exacerbate that rear bias by sticking a 10kg+ 10kW+ hub in the back wheel. Useable but far from ideal. Older frames are less slack, and generally easier for conversion than newer frames. Newer frames are getting more and more slack, and running 29" wheels which is not good for hub motors. And often carbon too. Totally out of the question.

 

[MadRhino]

Slacker head angle is perfect for fast bikes. I agree that wheelbase need to be stretched, and making custom steel dropouts is a good occasion to do so. My common wheelbase setting is 51.5’’. I like 10-15 yr old frames because they were made for pure gravity then, and to handle big drops. I use an Angle set headset on them frames to adjust head angle to my preference.

The wheel size was 26 then but bigger tires were used. My wheel OD is 27.75 and I find it good to ride mountain trails. I don’t like riding 24 in the mountain personally, for I am getting old for bucking rides, but my commuter is on 24X3.0. The new 27.5 and 29 sizes are perfect for Downhill races today, because the courses have changed and require crank work. They are using stiffer, lower profile tires that are making them close in OD size, but more wheel/less rubber is lighter and that is appealing. Big DD hubs are available in a wide variety of KV today, making it possible to build high power with any wheel size.

I like modern carbon DH frames, but I agree that CF is a specialty that is not easy to master for building custom ebikes. I am still building on alu frames, but carbon is an option that I have not ruled out.

 

[markz]

I like modern carbon DH frames, but I agree that CF is a specialty that is not easy to master for building custom ebikes. I am still building on alu frames, but carbon is an option that I have not ruled out.

Why not Titanium?