Enduro frame ebike experience in NYC?

[xylene23nyc]

https://queenseagle.com/all/2019/1/24/nypds-e-bike-seizure-initiative-does-not-extend-to-queens

http://www.chelseanewsny.com/news/local-news/nypd-e-bikes-crackdown-continues-HLNP1420180320180329996

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2020/01/07/new-york-city-mayor-defends-e-bike-enforcement-ahead-governors-new-bill

Like all things that involve the cops, there are heavy elements of racial profiling and selective enforcement. But they've been super dicks to electric bike riders in NYC. Things seems to have improved a bit during pandemic.

If you ask me, riding a farcical motorcycle-with-pedals there is taunting the beast.

It is true that up until 2020 ebikes were being confiscated but the laws were changed allowing level 3 ebikes with throttle up to 25mph. Cars have a speed limit of 25 as well. More people did start to commute via Ebike (also drive cars) during the pandemic but I believe that the laws eased up due to all the recent cash invested by delivery service corporations. We now even have ebike cargo services using bike lanes. Time is money and more powerful ebikes will deliver faster. My guess is that ebike laws will always be circumvented for more profit.

If it can work in a densely populated city like NY than it can work anywhere. Hopefully the example will help other cities ease up on their laws. last mile ebike delivery services are where the future $ will be.

 

[nicobie]

If it can work in a densely populated city like NY than it can work anywhere. Hopefully the example will help other cities ease up on their laws. last mile ebike delivery services are where the future $ will be.

Here you go...

 

[calab]

Every time I see that pic I wonder how cool it would be to put a handlebar on it and a seat on it.

Here you go...
2022-02-03 13_38_16-Want suggestions for cargobike with large mid-mount motor - Endless Sphere.png

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

One thing I really like about Enduro frames like the Stealth B52, F37 and P7 is that they have a battery cradle that adds structural strength to the bike. This allows the P7 to weigh as little 64 lbs despite a very beefy full suspension, brakes and tires.

We don't get this strength benefit when using triangle battery packs (which use triangle frame bags) or Super/Jumbo Shark battery packs (which attach to bottle mounts on downtube, etc.)

 

[calab]

Structural strength to battery box - At the determent of weight, q.c. and some other things.

One thing I really like about Enduro frames like the Stealth B52, F37 and P7 is that they have a battery cradle that adds structural strength to the bike. This allows the P7 to weigh as little 64 lbs despite a very beefy full suspension, brakes and tires.

We don't get this strength benefit when using triangle battery packs (which use triangle frame bags) or Super/Jumbo Shark battery packs (which attach to bottle mounts on downtube, etc.)

 

[Chalo]

One thing I really like about Enduro frames like the Stealth B52, F37 and P7 is that they have a battery cradle that adds structural strength to the bike.

Structurally, a stressed member battery box is so much less optimized than a triangle made of straight round tubes that it will always weigh more for the same strength, and crack sooner.

As implemented, they're also much less ergonomic and horrifyingly ugly.

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

One thing I really like about Enduro frames like the Stealth B52, F37 and P7 is that they have a battery cradle that adds structural strength to the bike.

Structurally, a stressed member battery box is so much less optimized than a triangle made of straight round tubes that it will always weigh more for the same strength, and crack sooner.

As implemented, they're also much less ergonomic and horrifyingly ugly.

That is a pretty unfair comparison because large diameter Cromoly butted tubing is already very thin walled. By default the Cromoly battery cradle on a Stealth will always weigh more....but it will also be stronger and stiffer.

The Stealth designed Cromoly frame will handle more abuse than your lighter Cromoly tubed frame meant for only human forces and weight. In order for there to be parity in strength you have to add more tubing. My prediction is that you would have to add it in such a way that it goes around the location of the battery.
.

 

[calab]

Apples to oranges
Cant compare deep pocketed companies protecting their product image and liability by throwing money and engineering at it to some back yard, cash strapped hacks with zero to lose come court time and zero to lose come save company image time.

Tubes and triangles are stronger because they use less materials for same strength. You can over do the box with thicker metal weighing multiples. If you go down hill, they are made for extreme use, but have no or limited battery area.

Everything has their place, if you want 4kw of battery go enduro, if you want to jump off cliffs and rock the bike park go dh, if you cruise the pathways for cougars go cruiser bike. Motor and battery are already heavy enough.

How much do enduros weigh on average vs a dh or xc bike?

One thing I really like about Enduro frames like the Stealth B52, F37 and P7 is that they have a battery cradle that adds structural strength to the bike.

Structurally, a stressed member battery box is so much less optimized than a triangle made of straight round tubes that it will always weigh more for the same strength, and crack sooner.

As implemented, they're also much less ergonomic and horrifyingly ugly.

That is a pretty unfair comparison because large diameter Cromoly butted tubing is already very thin walled. By default the Cromoly battery cradle on a Stealth will always weigh more....but it will also be stronger and stiffer.

The Stealth designed Cromoly frame will handle more abuse than your lighter Cromoly tubed frame meant for only human forces and weight. In order for there to be parity in strength you have to add more tubing. My prediction is that you would have to add in such a way that it goes around the location of the battery.
.

 

[Chalo]

Structurally, a stressed member battery box is so much less optimized than a triangle made of straight round tubes that it will always weigh more for the same strength, and crack sooner.

That is a pretty unfair comparison because large diameter Cromoly butted tubing is already very thin walled. By default the Cromoly battery cradle on a Stealth will always weigh more....but it will also be stronger and stiffer.

That's simply not true. More steel isn't stronger if it's an inefficient shape. Straight round tubes can't be beat, and least of all by flat sheet metal.

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

Tubes and triangles are stronger because they use less materials for same strength.

The Stealth frames also use a triangle. Remember these are Enduro frames so the triangle angles are not going to be the same as a Road bike which would be strongest type of triangle pound for pound (but not appropriate for Enduro usage).

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

If you go down hill, they are made for extreme use, but have no or limited battery area.

Nothing a structural battery box can't fix:

https://www.electricbike.com/hannes-crossbreak-style-mid-drive-2/

 

[99t4]

Damn, you've got some serious welding skills! I'm in awe!

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

With LFE (i.e. LiFePO4) having about 1/2 to 1/3 the volumetric energy density of Lithium ion this type of frame would be useful for packing in enough watt hours

 

[xylene23nyc]

With LFE (i.e. LiFePO4) having about 1/2 to 1/3 the volumetric energy density of Lithium ion this type of frame would be useful for packing in enough watt hours

This build is gorgeous! I love the idea of a powerful ebike with lots of range that can handle some serious terrain .

Not much downhill terrain here in NYC lol but our street pot holes DESTROY many CAR rims and axles. My Gf's new BMW is always having rim/axle issues from the potholes and she tries to be careful. I've only lived here but can say most of the USA is nothing like NYC so I can see how this all seems strange to many.

The more I think about it I really see powerful ebikes (similar to Enduro clones but lighter) with large battery capacity becoming popular in NYC. Picture a place where most people live in apartments (2/3 of NYC are renters) with horrible parking/traffic and also high theft. A class 3 ebike that easily hits the 28mph limit all day (no one ever drives over highway speed limits lol) + you only need to charge once a week or two that_+ you can also bring inside your apartment elevator seems ideal.

 

[calab]

With NYC it might be best to have a backpack battery and weld a mid drive to the frame of the bike. Backpack batteries suck so maybe weld the metal strap for the battery to the frame so it cant be removed.

 

[Chalo]

A class 3 ebike that easily hits the 28mph limit all day (no one ever drives over highway speed limits lol) + you only need to charge once a week or two that_+ you can also bring inside your apartment elevator seems ideal.

You're going to need more than an elevator full of batteries to meet those benchmarks.

 

[xylene23nyc]

With NYC it might be best to have a backpack battery and weld a mid drive to the frame of the bike. Backpack batteries suck so maybe weld the metal strap for the battery to the frame so it cant be removed.

I notice all the delivery e-bikers remove their downtube batteries (always multiple heavy locks/chain) for stops more than 2-3 minutes so i do the same for my BBSHD Mtn bike. I know 2 people who have had their ebikes with battery stolen (heavy locks cut) after short shopping trips. A battery powered angle grinder cuts the heaviest chain/lock in 2 minutes.

30-40lb 72volt Enduro frame battery would be very hard to handle/run off with. I also hope to set up the hub motor to lock up with the alarm making if impossible to ride off with if locks are cut.

 

[calab]

Motion sensor on the bike to push a text to your phone, if you want to go fancy a pinhole camera.
Should be something out there thats hidden very well.

I notice all the delivery e-bikers remove their downtube batteries (always multiple heavy locks/chain) for stops more than 2-3 minutes so i do the same for my BBSHD Mtn bike. I know 2 people who have had their ebikes with battery stolen (heavy locks cut) after short shopping trips. A battery powered angle grinder cuts the heaviest chain/lock in 2 minutes.

30-40lb 72volt Enduro frame battery would be very hard to handle/run off with. I also hope to set up the hub motor to lock up with the alarm making if impossible to ride off with if locks are cut.

 

[xylene23nyc]

A class 3 ebike that easily hits the 28mph limit all day (no one ever drives over highway speed limits lol) + you only need to charge once a week or two that_+ you can also bring inside your apartment elevator seems ideal.

You're going to need more than an elevator full of batteries to meet those benchmarks.

I should have been clearer but I really meant only a few miles per day at most (short commutes/local shopping etc) which is what I imagine to be most common in major metro areas. I also like the possibility of very long trips (60+ miles at 15-20mph?) on a single charge with a giant battery.

 

[calab]

I want a setup where I can use a set of batteries for my ebike, but also use the same battery for a stand up scooter.
Most scooters I see are very low power ~500w it seems it wouldnt have enough power, I believe 1000w is sufficient because the small diameter wheels are great for torque. I believe for someone living in NYC having a scooter and an ebike would be wonderful, because if you are going somewhere known, you can take the subway in nyc and carry your scooter under your arm, carry it in with you to wherever your going. Grocery store for example would be a very common scenario, it would reduce your stress when you lock up your ebike outside the grocery store.

BTW Have you looked at Louis laptop repair guy in NYC? I believe he built a BBSHD and rides each and every day but he brings in his ebike into his repair store.

 

[xylene23nyc]

I want a setup where I can use a set of batteries for my ebike, but also use the same battery for a stand up scooter.
Most scooters I see are very low power ~500w it seems it wouldnt have enough power, I believe 1000w is sufficient because the small diameter wheels are great for torque. I believe for someone living in NYC having a scooter and an ebike would be wonderful, because if you are going somewhere known, you can take the subway in nyc and carry your scooter under your arm, carry it in with you to wherever your going. Grocery store for example would be a very common scenario, it would reduce your stress when you lock up your ebike outside the grocery store.

BTW Have you looked at Louis laptop repair guy in NYC? I believe he built a BBSHD and rides each and every day but he brings in his ebike into his repair store.

I'll be honest, he is the reason why I started getting curious about the BBSHD and ebikes a few years ago LOL. Stand up scooters have become quite popular here. Maybe one day I will consider one. Some type of modular and or swappable battery between different types of e-vehicles would be amazing!

Some shop in NYC sells a 10k+ Watt stand up scooter and there was a video of a guy in NYC (idiot imo) hitting over 60 mph riding one on a highway.