EVT-168 (brushed) upgrade / troubleshooting

[joshtanga]

I have an early EVT-168 with a brushed motor. Last year I replaced the SLA batteries with a lithium pack (48V 40Ah), and have enjoyed improved performance. Recently, it suddenly stopped working, and although I isolated the problem to the controller I am considering upgrading both motor and controller.

What is involved in replacing the hub motor with a 10 in 2000W motor like this?

What is involved in replacing the controller with a 2500W controller like this?

 

[amberwolf]

Just to be sure, what specifically did it stop doing, in what way, under what conditions?

Before upgrading, be sure your battery is capable of handling the power requirements of the new system. For a 2500w controller, it could have a current limit of at least 52A at 48v (could be higher, some are programmable so you could lower it to what the battery can handle, if necessary).

Also, make sure the power will be enough to do the job you need it to do. If you are upgrading to achieve a specific goal / improvement in performance, it's good to define the job and conditions it has to do the job under, then make sure the total power available in the new system is enough to do that.



The main thing with replacing the motor is ensuring you get one that fits your dropout spacing and size, and if you don't already have torque plates, torque arms, or clamping / pinching dropouts to ensure the motor axle cannot spin or move in any way, you might need to add them. (depends on the design of the original motor and it's mounting points)

Are you intending to replace the entire wheel, or just replace the motor that is in your wheel?

If the former, then as long as it fits within your frame and has the same rim size you can use your original tire; if it's a different rim you might need a different tire and if the tire is too big it may not fit in the frame.

If the latter, then it depends on the wheel design for whether it is even possible, and then what would be required.


For the controller...that depends on the original size and moutning space, and whether you can mount the new one somewhere else if it doesn't fit in there, as well as how it's wired in there.

At a guess everything would wire in similarly to how it already is, but you would probably do best to draw up a wiring diagram of the bike beforehand, and do what you can to determine which specific wires carry what voltages and signals, to make it easier and safer to wire in the new controller. You can also measure the throttle voltage range, to see if it matches the requirements of the new controller, and if not to reprogram the controller to match or replace the throttle with one that matches the controller if necessary.

 

[joshtanga]

More details about the bike:

After fully charging the batteries, I turned it on and everything seemed normal. I used the throttle to ease it out of the garage and hand it over to my wife. She hopped on, coasted downhill and returned a minute later because the throttle action did not engage the motor.

To troubleshoot, I sent power directly to the motor, and saw the wheel spin. At this point I assume the motor works fine.
I intended to check the brake lever next but after reconnecting everything, I noticed, when I turn it on, a long beep and the 4th light flashing. I think this indicates a problem with the controller.

I have now pulled out the controller. I think I could put a new, different one, I. the heat sink (pictured).

If I can find the same controller I'll try a direct replacement. If not, or if that fails, I will re-read the response above 100 times and try to upgrade the system to a brushless motor.

I don't need speed; 30 m/h is plenty, but I do live in hilly terrain, so torque is a priority.

Thank you Amberwolf for your thorough response.

 

[amberwolf]

After fully charging the batteries, I turned it on and everything seemed normal. I used the throttle to ease it out of the garage and hand it over to my wife. She hopped on, coasted downhill and returned a minute later because the throttle action did not engage the motor.

To troubleshoot, I sent power directly to the motor, and saw the wheel spin. At this point I assume the motor works fine.
I intended to check the brake lever next but after reconnecting everything, I noticed, when I turn it on, a long beep and the 4th light flashing. I think this indicates a problem with the controller.

This manual

https://electricscooterparts.com/manuals/EVT-168-owners-manual.pdf

has a list of error codes. Do any of them match what you see?

If the error code didn't happen before disconnecting things, then it's likely that it is caused by a connection problem or miswiring, and may be unrelated to the original problem (which could be as simple as a stuck-on brake switch, or a problem with the batteries dropping in voltage enough to trigger LVC (even if they had been just charged, if something is wrong--they would still make the motor turn if directly connected, just the controller would disable itself to protect them).








If it's useful, this is the service manual

https://electricscooterparts.com/manuals/EVT-168-Service-Manual.pdf

 

[AussieRider]

G'day Joshtanga.
A long beep with all LEDs flashing can be the kill switch in the off position. Maybe your wife bumped it. Sounds too obvious but more than once I've spent too long trouble shooting motorbikes no go instead of checking the kill switch first. Duh.

AussieRider

 

[PtheDude]

I have your replacement, and I want your bad one back,. I have EVT testing devices, and 2 BAD units, I could potentially repair yours with, they are unique in that they have an optical throttle inside the unit. a physical optical throttle. If you drop the original, and at the time, over engineered controller, you loose the dash., the motors, brushed and not, are straight forward, and will run on most controllers, but the dash is an extension of the EVT So all the lights, levels and cutoffs have to be hacked into the new controller, or your looking at replacing the 2 chrome cans that make up the display. yanking the brushed motor and controller is possible, I have multiple known good EVT brushless controllers. What I don't have is motors I do have mini-monsters, x2 tho, which is basically the same thing, but different manufacture. they were on the Zappinos and the Vextrics and are great for over-volting. Bottom line is your use case is your wife. Go stock. The throttle is stupid smooth, and you have zero hacks that for one reason or another, usually fail on these older bikes. you've already shed the LA batts, its just about perfect. bike color? How is your seat? missing any bits? let me know, I'll hook you up.
Paul lucid-engineering.com

 

[PtheDude]

This manual

https://electricscooterparts.com/manuals/EVT-168-owners-manual.pdf

has a list of error codes. Do any of them match what you see?

If the error code didn't happen before disconnecting things, then it's likely that it is caused by a connection problem or miswiring, and may be unrelated to the original problem (which could be as simple as a stuck-on brake switch, or a problem with the batteries dropping in voltage enough to trigger LVC (even if they had been just charged, if something is wrong--they would still make the motor turn if directly connected, just the controller would disable itself to protect them).


View attachment 337176

View attachment 337177



If it's useful, this is the service manual

https://electricscooterparts.com/manuals/EVT-168-Service-Manual.pdf

Thanks for posting these, you beat me to it.

 

[joshtanga]

My wife did say the odometer indicated 50 miles per hour during driving, so something was off.

It's not the kill switch, and the voltage stays at 53V when the switch is turned on, so I don't think it's voltage drop. (This 53 volts was not enough to blow the controller was it? I've used these batts for months.)

The lights do come on and stay on, despite the long beep and the 4th light flashing. The brake lights do not come on unless I squeeze the lever, so I think this suggests it's not a stuck brake thingy.

There's no mention of the 4th light in the EVT-168 manual but I swear I saw it in a EVT 4000 manual somewhere as an indication of controller malfunction.

I did mangle the optical throttle in the controller so a new spring should be installed, but it might work as is.

This bike is a nice silver, and has lived it's 20 year life under a roof, the seat is gorgeous and every other thing about is gravy.

Goal #1 is to replace with a new controller and hope that fixes it.

 

[joshtanga]

A new controller was installed and it did not fix the problem.

Here's what is happening: when I turn the key, I hear the usual beeps, then a LONG beep. Sometimes only the 4th LED flashes at this point. Sometimes all LED's flash. None of this is alluded to in the manual. All other lights work, blinkers, horn - it all works, - but no power to the motor and the LED's blink.

Also, after I turn the key, sometimes the motor turns so that the wheel spins 10 degrees or so then stops, then I hear a little clunk/click. (The motor works fine when wired directly to 12V)

What is happening?

 

[joshtanga]

When I turn my scooter on the brushed motor spins for a quarter turn then stops.

Obviously, this is bad behavior, the motor should only spin when the throttle is engaged. But I don't know how to identify what wire controls the throttle. I see the handle actuates a cable which mechanically pulls something in the controller, but I don't know what signal comes out of the controller that affects how fast the motor spins. Is it just the amount of voltage sent to the motor?

I have an EVT 168.

 

[fechter]

The throttle cable pulls on a “pot box” near the controller. That has a connection to the actual controller circuit.
I would first try unplugging and reconnecting all the connections going to the controller except for the big fat ones.

 

[amberwolf]

I'd check the ground wire on your throttle connection. A poor ground can create a non-zero voltage even at throttle off, which could cause the motor to start uncommanded.

Follow the cable back to the unit in the controller area that the cable pulls. Wires (probably three, sometimes two) will come from that and go to the actual controller; this might be inside a box containing all the system electronics.

 

[fechter]

An EVT 168 is a very vintage scooter. It's possible there could be an age related component failure.

Here's an old topic that may or may not be useful anymore: EVT 168

 

[amberwolf]

I'm going to guess that the problem you are having now is the same as in this post
https://endless-sphere.com/sphere/threads/evt-168-brushed-upgrade.120646/post-1770362

A new controller was installed and it did not fix the problem.

Here's what is happening: when I turn the key, I hear the usual beeps, then a LONG beep. Sometimes only the 4th LED flashes at this point. Sometimes all LED's flash. None of this is alluded to in the manual. All other lights work, blinkers, horn - it all works, - but no power to the motor and the LED's blink.

Also, after I turn the key, sometimes the motor turns so that the wheel spins 10 degrees or so then stops, then I hear a little clunk/click. (The motor works fine when wired directly to 12V)

What is happening?

If so, then this thread doesn't have nearly enough information to help you out, and I would like to merge this thread with that one so that everyone helping you can have all the available information so you can get correct advice.

If the problem in this thread is not related, then please give complete details on how the system got to the point it is at now (what specifically happened between the time it worked and the time it didnt) so we can be more helpful.

 

[joshtanga]

Yes, this is the same issue. I'm sorry to have created a new thread. I'm just struggling mightily to get this thing back on the road.

I'll try to find a ground wire inside the controller box.

 

[amberwolf]

Ok, so you have installed a new controller...is it an identical controller to the original, wired up the same way?

Were there any leftover wires? (asking because if you got a brushless version and used it on a brushed controller, it won't operate but could try to spin the motor for an instant causing it to move a tiny bit)