eZee conversion with Ping batteries... Advice wanted.

[Rob Melektau]

Well, I've done it.
I've jumped in with both feet and am building my first E-Bike. I've been reading the forum quietly in the corner for a couple of months now, and I figure its time to show myself. Here is what I've got, what I'm getting, and what my expectations are.

Expectations: I'm building a commuter bike primarily, and something to get me back in some sort of shape. I live 19km from work by major roads. The good thing is I've got the option to cover well over half the distance on bike trails and residential streets on gently rolling hills. I'm 240lbs but am willing to pedal lightly heading to work (don't want to arrive sweaty) but more vigorously coming home (to fulfill the secondary requirement). I'm in fair, shape physically but substantially overweight. My ideal weight is in the 180-190 range. So, after reading a LOT I decided on the following.

Already got; An older Conquest 15 speed mountain bike. No shocks, no disks, no frills.
Just received via Canada Post; eZee 26" front wheel kit with the 20amp controller, blew the budget and got the CA-DPS Cycle Analyst as well, all from ebikes.ca
Am getting; Just today Mr. Li Ping notified me that he just shipped my 48v 20AH v2.5 LiFePO4 battery. Thinking that I'd like the increased flexability of installation, and potentially more stealthy options, I had the the pack split into 2 to to allow more installation location options. I'm not sure if I've given myself a potential headache for ordering it this way, but when I originally inquired about the option Ping suggested it wasn't a problem, and only charged another $10 for extra shipping charges. I couldn't resist, but I do have my concerns. What do you think?

Anyway... Fire away. Looking for constructive criticism, and suggestions. Auxiliary hardware I should consider or anything else you can think of. I've got good mechanical skills, but am a novice with electronics.

 

[dogman dan]

I think 48v 20 ah should be split, but then carried high enough to keep the wires as short as possible, or paralell two 48v 10 ah. The two pack option is more expensive, but can allow a faster charge with two chargers, and flexibility to leave one pack home for shorter rides. Sounds like a great setup, at very low speeds you will have 50 mile range or more, and plenty of power to not pedal at all to work if that suits you. You may not even have to charge at work, but I would, to go easier on the battery. You can just use a cheap sla charger to do the work charge, so you don't beat up your lifepo4 charger carrying it.

Do be sure the front forks aren't alloy and get some 26" bmx forks if they are.

 

[voicecoils]

Surly makes a great set of cromo forks in disc and non-disk compatible versions:
http://jensonusa.com/store/product/FK409C01-Surly+1X1+Fork.aspx

They're a great combo with a front hubmotor and torque arm, and since the eZee comes with a front disk, the disk compatible version would let you get a disk brake running up on the front end, where it's most important.

Good luck with your new build and fitness goals!

 

[dnmun]

you may be able to get someone to braze on a bracket for your disk brake, and make a good torque arm solution at the same time. post up pictures of your build, we can criticize then, file the dropouts to fit the 10mm, and a little deeper in the bottom of the dropout on the sides or shoulder, to get it to seat farther down into the dropout since the axle diameter is so much larger than the dropout diameter, and also you can file a little of the threads off on the small area of the axle where it contacts the bottom of the dropout to get the axle seated as deep as possible before you figure out how the torque arm has to fit.

that is for maximum safety. or if you don't wanna file off the lawyer lips on the dropout, buy the little C spacer for lawyer lips from justin too.

nice selection of parts, should serve you well, and your commute should be easy to meet. always try to charge at the destination too, even with the lifepo4. maybe get a second charger for work if you don't carry one with you. 180 is nice, i would like to get back to 160 again, also a 20% reduction for me.

 

[Ypedal]

Awsome !

the eZee at 48v scoots along good...

Batteries.. do you have 2 x 24v or 2 x 48v10ah ?

Either way, yes, that was a great decision ! all you gotta do now is head over to a bike shop and pick up a quality heavy duty rear rack and saddle bags, put one pack per side, down low, and you have the top of the rack to carry extra stuff like tools, patch kit, pump, plastic bags ( for when it rains, cover the throttle ) etc etc etc..... Axiom makes nice stuff..

If the back of the controller has 4 tiny holes, fill them with silicone, hot glue, tape over them whatever.. but seal this up so water don't get in.

Get a Kick stand if the bike don't alredy have one.( leaning a heavy bike against a building is not always easy, and you don't want it to fall over lol )

The motor comes with a good tire, check your rear and if it's weather cracked or really crappy... consider a good road tire and pump those babies up to at least 40 psi, 50 + at your weight ..

oh.. and yeah.. pictures !

 

[monster]

i would definatly get a disc brake compatable bike frame since you have the option. you should be good for range. i do a similar commute to you. nice setup.

 

[gwolosh]

This is similar to what I did. Justin and Zev at ebikes.ca suggested that the stock controller may not be able to handle the nominal 52V in the 48V Ping. Based on their recommendation I upgraded the controller to the 35 amp Clyte immediate start. I run the controller at 25 amps. Additionally, I did not split the pack. I have my pack in the Swagman Whee Pod Rear Bike Carrier. The pack just fits in and there is room for the 5 amp charger (purchased separately from Ping), tools, lock, and two small notebooks.

My bike is an old diamondback mountain bike with CroMo frame and forks. I did a lot of work on it to make it comfortable as a commuter. I plan on putting the details on the build on the forum in a couple of weeks when it is completely finished.

My commute is 21.5 miles and I plan on using the ebike most days for my commute. At 220 lbs (was closer to 250) one of my primary goals is to lose weight. I've been training all winter and can ride my road bike unassisted for 25 miles easily. As I am still breaking in the battery I haven't tried my commute range yet but I seem to be running about 0.8AH per mile.

 

[Rob Melektau]

Wow, some awesome advice guys. I really appreciate it. To tell you the truth, I'm a bit overwhelmed.

At this point it seems my biggest mistakes so far is not considering upgrading the controller right away, and not getting a 5 amp charger with my Ping LiFePO4s. I didn't even know Ping sold other chargers. I actually looked on his site specifically looking for one. When I didn't see one and he didn't try and get me to upgrade the charger, I assumed that he didn't carry it. Lesson learned... Ask.

All in all I'm quite pleased with the general consensus. I puts my mind somewhat at ease. Thanks.

Also seems that from all the comments about disk brakes, I might just have to put that up a little higher on the wish list. I've never had a bike with disk brakes. Are they generally a universal size/gauge/whatever? I assume that there retrofit kits available out there. What should I look for, and how much would you pay for one?

Now for some specifics;
Batteries.. do you have 2 x 24v or 2 x 48v10ah ? I have no idea... I just asked Ping to split the pack for me. I didn't even think to ask. Duh.

On the subject of batteries, Ping emailed me today with the dimensions of each pack.
> Ping wrote: Dimensions of one part is 200x105x140mm, and the other 200x105x150mm. One is higher because BMS is with it. <
Now I can start thinking about how to mount them. More than likely I'll do the saddle bag thing, but I like thinking out of the box, so you never know...
BTW, I'm in Toronto Canada, and just got my shipping confirmation from Canada Post this morning saying that my packages have left China. From personal experience, how long did to take to get your Ping? I'm already feeling impatient, and find it hard to believe that it can get here via Canada Post in a week as was suggested.

If the back of the controller has 4 tiny holes, fill them with silicone, hot glue, tape over them whatever.. but seal this up so water don't get in.
>waterproofing, a big priority. I don't intend on leaving the bike home because its cloudy. Waterproofing tips are appreciated.

Get a Kick stand if the bike don't alredy have one.( leaning a heavy bike against a building is not always easy, and you don't want it to fall over lol )
> Good advice. Never even considered it. Right now its just got one of those crappy side stands. Just won't do...

The motor comes with a good tire, check your rear and if it's weather cracked or really crappy... consider a good road tire and pump those babies up to at least 40 psi, 50 + at your weight ..
> Ya, I didn't mention, the bike has knobbies, so... I got a Bontrager Hank Dual Compound 26 x 2.2 for the rear. Read somewhere that it was comfortable and had low rolling resistance. I went into a bike shop by work and saw it just inside the door. I took it as a sign and bought it.

oh.. and yeah.. pictures !
> Coming up...

This post is starting to drag out, so I'm going to finish it here. There are some other great stuff that I haven't addressed, but believe me, I'm taking it all in. Thanks again.

I'll post some pics tomorrow after I get started.

 

[gwolosh]

At this point it seems my biggest mistakes so far is not considering upgrading the controller right away, and not getting a 5 amp charger with my Ping LiFePO4s. I didn't even know Ping sold other chargers. I actually looked on his site specifically looking for one. When I didn't see one and he didn't try and get me to upgrade the charger, I assumed that he didn't carry it. Lesson learned... Ask.

Actually, I also didn't ask until after I received the battery and 2A charger. I figured I would need to charge at work and after my long commute the 2A charger might not charge the battery enough to get home. Now I have 2 chargers. This is not so bad since I can leave the 5A charger at work.

Also seems that from all the comments about disk brakes, I might just have to put that up a little higher on the wish list. I've never had a bike with disk brakes. Are they generally a universal size/gauge/whatever? I assume that there retrofit kits available out there. What should I look for, and how much would you pay for one?

It may be harder than you think to retrofit your bike to disk brakes. You would need to either replace the front fork and have disk bosses brazed on the rear OR also have disk bosses brazed on the front fork. Old mountain bikes usually came fitted for forks with a 1" threaded steerer. These types of forks are not made any more.

My bike has the old style cantilever brakes. I spent a lot of time adjusting them and even going downhill at almost 40mph they stop fine. In the opinion of the head mechanic at my LBS for most normal riding, disk brakes are overkill.

From personal experience, how long did to take to get your Ping? I'm already feeling impatient, and find it hard to believe that it can get here via Canada Post in a week as was suggested.

About a week give or take a day.

 

[Ypedal]

Yeah. imo don't sweat the disk brakes for now.. good rim brakes are just fine for most situations.. good brake pads make a big difference.. some KoolStop or equivalent pads are cheap to replace and will get you stopped almost as good as disks can ( sometimes better.. there are cheap disk brakes out there that just plain suck. )

 

[Rob Melektau]

Yeah. imo don't sweat the disk brakes for now.. good rim brakes are just fine for most situations.. good brake pads make a big difference.. some KoolStop or equivalent pads are cheap to replace and will get you stopped almost as good as disks can ( sometimes better.. there are cheap disk brakes out there that just plain suck. )

I was hoping that someone would say that.

Well, as promised, here are some pics to see what I'm starting with.

 

[dogman dan]

Should be good enough forks. The nut type axle and large retention washer means you are unlikely to have the fit problems some forks have that were made for quick release hubs. Just watch like a hawk for any hint that they tend to move or squirt out of the dropouts as you tighten the nuts. I like to tighten the nuts, wait 30 minuites for washers to settle in, and then tighten just a tiny bit more later if the washers needed to smoosh a little.

If you ride smart, even shitty brakes are good enough. On nothing is good enough for the really unexpected.( beware of paralell parked cars) But what you have will have to be set up for the best performance, so good pads in good adjustment is mandatory.

 

[jag]

I like your homemade bike stand!

With the eZee at 48V you and your bike will have 2-4 times more kinetic energy at top speed than typical pedaling. Also forces on the fork will be higher when accelerating and braking.

If the bike is the age i looks to be (10+ years) it would be a good idea to do some maintenance on the bearings, particularly headset, before mounting the hub motor and getting all the wiring put on. Just disassemble, wipe off old grease from ball bearings and races, fill with new grease, and reassemble. Tighten bearing race finger tight, then tighten top locknut hard while holding the lower nut to prevent it from tightening further and put too much pressure on the ball bearings. When tightened right there will be no play in the fork and the fork will rotate smoothly. If too loose there will be play. If too tight the rotation will have more friction and feel "knobby"/gritty.

Check the headset for tightness and fork for wobbling or deformation from time to time. Particularly in the beginning.

 

[jag]

If you ride smart, even shitty brakes are good enough. On nothing is good enough for the really unexpected.( beware of paralell parked cars) But what you have will have to be set up for the best performance, so good pads in good adjustment is mandatory.

I agree. Most accidents are prevented by riding within the limitations of you and your gear. Still you could compare your cantilever brake to newer designs by asking to test ride a bike at a bike store and then compare to yours how quickly it stops.

Try compare to a bike with a linear type ("V-brake") as in the image below. This would be a cheap upgrade. I bought mine, "Single digit 5", for $12/piece off ebay. Upgrading front is most important.

 

[Rob Melektau]

I like your homemade bike stand!

Ya, I'm thinking about facilitating an adult learning course. "How to build a bike stand in 10 minutes or less." I'll make a fortune!
I started looking at the bike, and quickly decided I'm not going to wrestle with it.

If the bike is the age i looks to be (10+ years) it would be a good idea to do some maintenance on the bearings, particularly headset, before mounting the hub motor and getting all the wiring put on. Just disassemble, wipe off old grease from ball bearings and races, fill with new grease, and reassemble. Tighten bearing race finger tight, then tighten top locknut hard while holding the lower nut to prevent it from tightening further and put too much pressure on the ball bearings. When tightened right there will be no play in the fork and the fork will rotate smoothly. If too loose there will be play. If too tight the rotation will have more friction and feel "knobby"/gritty.
Check the headset for tightness and fork for wobbling or deformation from time to time. Particularly in the beginning.

Good advice, I'll do that tonight. I remember doing this years ago with another bike.
While we are at it, what about lubing the rear axle, and peddle bearings. I got it last summer from a friend that used it for a year, then upgraded. So, it doesn't have a lot of km on it, but it did sit for a few years hanging in his garage. When I got it, I lubed it with some 3 in 1 oil, used some steel wool to get rid of the rust on the spoke and rims, and took it for a ride. Since I've probably put 100k on it, and lubed the chain before putting away last fall. It runs smooth, and the bearings feel to be running free and true. Is there anything else (other than the brake upgrade discussed below) that I should be doing before working on the actual upgrade?

I agree. Most accidents are prevented by riding within the limitations of you and your gear. Still you could compare your cantilever brake to newer designs by asking to test ride a bike at a bike store and then compare to yours how quickly it stops.

Try compare to a bike with a linear type ("V-brake") as in the image below. This would be a cheap upgrade. I bought mine, "Single digit 5", for $12/piece off ebay. Upgrading front is most important.

Thanks for the suggesting I'll take a look at my local bike shops for this style. So, center pull brakes are out of favour are they? I'm sooo far out of touch with more current bike technology.

 

[dogman dan]

Center pull brake mounts are compatible with the v brakes common today. You can get really good v brakes off some really junky bikes. I figured the mongoose wall mart bike ones would need upgrading for sure. 3500 miles later, they work great, for a rim brake. Look like tin foil stampings, but work just as good as the alloy ones on other bikes I have. The center pull mtb style seemed to me to lack leverage. As long as you can lock em up, but have the sense not to, v brakes are great. In the wet, it's disks for sure.

 

[el_walto]

My ping battery took 14 days to make it to my house. It sat in customs for a while.

I've been running my 48V ping battery with my Ezee controller full throttle without any problems. The ebikes.ca website says its max votage is 60V. You will have to mount your controller externally for cooling because mine gets quite hot to the touch.

 

[Rob Melektau]

Good news, my batteries have arrived in Canada, passed through customs, and are apparently in the caring and capable hands of Canada Post...
In the meantime, I did a lot of the maintenance that was suggested, then started the build. Installed new fenders, rear tire, and the all important rear rack.
Of course none of the hardware that came with the rack fit at all. So I had to step out to the local hardware store to buy some assorted stainless nuts and bolts. Other than that, the eZee wheel couldn't have fit any better into the forks. Snugged in tight, and bottomed out nicely. I didn't have to do a thing. (Almost disappointing...)
Once the rear tire, rack, and fenders were installed, it basically built itself. Last afternoon/evening I spent an inordinate amount of time mounting the speed controller, and wiring everything up.
Looks like she'll be a decent sleeper once shes fully fit.

BTW, still need to get a kickstand, and a front brake upgrade, and of course, saddle bags with batteries.

 

[Rob Melektau]

Ok, now that the batteries arrival is immanent time to ask a couple of specific questions.

1/ Do you think the eZee motor and gears should be broken in somehow before an actual ride? Or do you think some light riding be enough?

2/ What about my new LiFePO4 batteries? From what I've read short rides, with long charge cycles seems to be advised. What would you consider an appropriate break in period and style? Please be specific if you can.

 

[dogman dan]

Usually a half dozen to a dozen cycles wakes up the cells. Leave it charging all night for awhile, or forever like I do. If the pack needs to balance, the bms I have needs time to cycle the charger on and off a few times. At first it did this for hours, for the first few cycles. Bms is evolving nowdays, so that may be different now. In any case, a long time on the charger does no harm and the bms may need to do something while the green light is on. The main advantage of light cycles is that you lessen risk of overdischarging one cell that is slow to wake up and you get the break in over with quicker. You can get three short cycles in a day on a weekend and get to real riding sooner if you only ride about 3-4 miles per cycle for the first half dozen cycles too. It's better to bounce the battery off the top of the charge than to pull it down to the bottom and then take of again partially charged.

 

[mybad]

Hey Rob,
Did you install the pedal sensor ?

 

[Rob Melektau]

Thanks for the suggestions. That gives me a better idea in practical terms what I can expect before I take it on the full 20 km commute.

Hey Rob,
Did you install the pedal sensor ?

Didn't install one. From what I understand it isn't required in Ontario.

Well, day of days!!!
My Pings finally arrived. If you remember from previous posts that I got my 48v 20a battery split into 2 so it could be put in saddlebags.

Well, I've got:
2 red wires coming off one battery,
and a black and light blue from the BMS (or so it looks)
As well as the blue that connects the 2 packs together, and the multi-wired connector for the bms.



There is a 3 wire male connector from the charger, with a solderable surface mount female plug on it, but not wired.
Is there anyone out there that can give me a diagram, or even a hint on what I should be doing?

Oh ya, almost forgot. The only complaint I have so far is that the plug for the charger is missing! I can see how it could happen, and I thought I'd recognized the connector (its the one for my PS2) so, it hasn't stopped me from from going forward. I'll drop Li Ping an email and let him know anyway.

 

[Rob Melektau]

Doh!
Immediately after posting I found this link on the Ping site
http://www.pingbattery.com/usrguide/Wiring Guide V2.5.pdf

Whew, I was worried...

 

[Rob Melektau]

IM AN IDIOT!!!

Damn, I hope I didn't do what I thought I might have done...
While wiring the charger jack I momentarily touched the wires going to the charger from the BMS and battery positive. Got a quick arc, and it was all over but the swearing.
What do you think the chances are that I just fried the BMS? It seems to be charging, and I'm presently reading 54.3 v

Oh, by the way did I mention that I'm an idiot...

 

[gwolosh]

IM AN IDIOT!!!

Damn, I hope I didn't do what I thought I might have done...
While wiring the charger jack I momentarily touched the wires going to the charger from the BMS and battery positive. Got a quick arc, and it was all over but the swearing.
What do you think the chances are that I just fried the BMS? It seems to be charging, and I'm presently reading 54.3 v

No problem. This probably happens more than you think. Scared the crap out of my daughter who was holding the needle nose pliers at the time. (Now she won't come into the garage when I'm soldering ) Made the pliers a liitle shorter. But the BMS and battery are fine.

BTW, on my battery, one of the red wires was thinner than the other. If yours is like that use the thinner one for the charger.