Fat Bike build 500W TSDZ2 Middle Motor

[Johne-bike]

If you measure the rear dropout on your new Fatbike, I think you will find it is actually 190mm or 195mm spacing. This is the "normal" standard for Fatbikes?
I have a Panther Hercules One Fat Bike, with 26" wheels, and a Coyote Fatbike with 20" wheels, sold in Thailand but manuctured in Taiwan, and both have a 190mm rear dropout width.
On Aliexpress you can find a store that will supply a Mxus 3000w V2 4T Hubmotor, supplied with a 190mm spacing axle, which is fitted to my 26" wheel Fatbike, and has proved fantastic for my riding on the flat hard pack and gravel trails in my part of NE Thailand.. Very similar geography to the Netherlands here.. Just hotter..!
I can highly recommend the Mxus Hubmotor.. Fantastic, unstressed performance and silent with the KT 45amp Sinewave controller, running 13s 16000mah Lipo in my application. In nearly 18 months and 4,000 kms of use it has been 100% reliable and every day I ride it, it brings a massive, satisfied smile to my face..! The 4T version I am running easily hits its maximum Kvh rpm and thus tops out at 55kph effortlessly on an 80% charged pack, and also has good acceleration, and never ever gets near to overheating even when carrying myself at 75kgs, and my 9year old, 30kgm daughter on the rear seat.
It's the perfect Fatbike motor for flat trail use IMO..
Good Luck..!
View attachment 3

 

[Johne-bike]

120Kph fat bike 45H magenet V2 3000W brushless non-gear hub motor for electric fat bike or snow bike
http://s.aliexpress.com/ZJRVFzUJ?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard

This is the Link to the store on AliExpress where I purchased all of my ebike conversion kit.
Jack at this store gives excellent service. They supplied my Mxus 3000w V2 Hub Motor fitted with internal Temperature sensor, and custom 190mm wide axle, and laced it into a rim that exactly matched the OEM rims on my bike, all done from a photo of my bike I supplied him with. And I was able to use their supplied 10 speed freewheel to match the standard Shimano gearing supplied on my bike.
I can highly recommend Jack and this store for their excellent service and good prices, meeting my every requirement for my build.

 

[MaartenL]

Thnx Johne!

I did send them a message for information. Though I really want a Torque Sensor system instead of the standard Cadence PAS.

My second option would be a tsdz2 kit from an Italian company:
http://www.future-bike.it/shop/kit-di-trasformazione-3/kit-active-torque-fat-con-batteria/

This middle motor is 500 W and has a Torque sensor build in. I do know there is a big topic about this motor which I started to read.

This Italian company does offer an unique 120mm bracket solution to make it fit in my Fat Bike, nice!

There is no Throttle included I think.

What is your guys opinion about these 2 options?

 

[SlowCo]

Very expensive kit from Italy

If you can wait till end of august you can order best from here (no tax or shipping cost):
http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2018-4c-h1fm

http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2018-52-c8sc

If you also order the metal replacement gear and can find the bottom bracket extension that the italian kit uses you'll have a 48V 750W (not 36V 250W) torque sensor mid drive with throttle for around €750,-

 

[MaartenL]

Well, I can't find the a complete set somewhere else with a 120mm bracket solution.

Actually I'm getting the 500 W option with a 48V 17Ah battery, not too bad!

You can select what you want here:
http://www.future-bike.it/shop/kit-di-trasformazione-3/kit-active-torque-fat-con-batteria/

I'm not 100% yet what is included, I'm waiting for a reply from them.

 

[SlowCo]

If you feel that it is not too bad to pay around €400,- extra for the bottom bracket extension and get 500W instead of 750W then I guess that is fine. I can't find any shipping costs on that Italian site so I hope they don't add too much for that on top.

 

[MaartenL]

Well, I haven't found anything better that will work...

It now includes:
500 W option with 120mm bracket
48V 17Ah battery in bottle form which can be removed
Thumb controller for assist control
Control display with USB
Metal Gearings as standard
Speed sensor (I think)
no Throttle
no Brake Levers
Price: 1192 EURO / 1400 USD

 

[MaartenL]

So I just finished my built!

Fat 8.1 specs:
Wheels 26"
Tires: Kenda Juggernaut Sport 26″x4.00
Frame: Aluminium 6061
Disc Brakes: Tektro Aquila Mechanical Disc
Gears: 8 Speed Shimano Clarius
Chain: KMC -72
Cassette: 8 Speed HG41

Dropout / HUB spacing / Axel for rear wheel: 197mm and Switzz says I need 220mm!
Bracket for midmotor: 120mm

I bought the Fatbike kit from www.future-bike.it

500 W option with 120mm bracket
Protection cage for motor
48V 17Ah battery in bottle form which can be removed
Race Control Display type VLCD6
Metal Gearings as standard
Speed sensor
42T with 10mm offset (installed this one)
42T standard
32T race torque thing I will never use...

Maxspeed is around 40km/h, than I pedal so fast the motor stops assisting...
I can really climb hard with this bike! So far one big LOVE for this built!
I did a test ride on a 18km technical, steep short climbing MTB track in The Netherlands and it was awesome!

Installation took some time to figure it all out and some issues:
-Battery could only be mounted upside down on two M5 bolts (so far no problems, but double check to lock the battery before riding)
-Speedsensor did not work but found some strong neodymium magnets which fixed the distance problem
-Motor would rest on a part sticking out from the motor on the left so I bought a wedge to fit in the middle
-The bolt which should fit on top did not fit because of the big diameter of my frame. I just did not use it....

Pictures!

Thanks for all support!

The only issue is still that I'm wondering if the motor doesn't lean too much on the edge of the frame / is able to move because I could not install the top bolt because of the big frame.

 

[MaartenL]

Whoopsss did I already destroy the motor?

After one week and 260km I just had this issue. It seems the motor is slipping even when the motor is off. Here is a video:

[youtube]z-9krOuDdAc[/youtube]

So... I'm guessing it could be the blue gear.. However I'm open for suggestions. I guess tomorrow I will operate my motor and see what's inside.

Or... actually the Sprag Clutch? I found this video:

[youtube]PWlz4xw3pI8[/youtube]

and this one about replacing:

[youtube]u-SY0rGMEMo[/youtube]

 

[MaartenL]

Still going strong! Actually nothing broke really, it was the chain making problems. It was a little loose and would jump off, so I made it a little tighter.

420km on the road and I'm loving it.

 

[schibolaus]

Maarten,

Thank you for the info on your fat bike conversion. I am in the process of converting my Scott Fat Jon fat bike from 2016, so far no issues. I used a pot magnet neodymium magnet for the speed sensor and attached it to one of those reflective plates that are attached to the spokes, as the distance from the spokes to the chain stay is around 8-9 cm, and the stock magnet was useless. As I live in the mountains, I also used a future-bike.it 30T chain ring, and changed the rear cassette to a T11-42. The smallest gear ratio is thereby 0.71 for steep sections. While the bottom bracket width is 100mm, I ordered the 120mm extension kit, and added spacers. So far I have added 9mm of spacers on the chain ring side, and about 5mm on the attachment side of the bottom bracket.

Here are some pictures of the conversion.

Cheers

 

[schibolaus]

Here are some more updates of the conversion. I have finished the Scott Fat Jon 2016 TSDZ2 conversion, and have made some tests on the snow. I am using a 13s3p 48V volt battery that has about 400Wh capacity (13 cells in series, 3 lines in parallel). Given the limited grip the original tires have provided (Schwalbe Jumbo Jim EVO, 26x4.8), I will be mounting 45NRTH Dillinger 5 studded tires. Trails can be quite steep and icy here. Everything seems in order, but I do feel quite a long delay between the manually-applied pedaling torque and the assisted torque from the TSDZ2 motor, as compared to the newer Bosch pedal assist systems. Does anybody feel the same? Does not bother me too much, but would like to see if there are ways to reduce the delay, for example by reprogramming the controller (is it an Arduino-based device?). Cheers, Nik

View attachment 1

 

[SlowCo]

Everything seems in order, but I do feel quite a long delay between the manually-applied pedaling torque and the assisted torque from the TSDZ2 motor, as compared to the newer Bosch pedal assist systems. Does anybody feel the same? Does not bother me too much, but would like to see if there are ways to reduce the delay, for example by reprogramming the controller (is it an Arduino-based device?). Cheers, Nik

There is better firmware for this motor. Look in this thread:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=93818

 

[schibolaus]

Thank you very much, I will look into this. Also, the batteries I have been using are cheap ones, that seem to have a current limited at 10A to 13A, basically standard batteries in the 13s3p configuration. So I barely feel a difference between assist level 3 and 4, which seems logical to me, as the power assist probably cannot take more than 400-500W.