First build 36V/500W 9C motor

[borschelrh]

After being a pest on this forum I finally went ahead and bit the bullet. I purchased this kit from http://www.ev-power.eu/EVBike-Kits-1-1/E-bike-conversion-kit-EVBike-36V-500W-Rear-26.html who are located in Prague. This kit was well thought out and relatively easy to install (I assume as I made quite a few mistakes so it wasn't all that easy for me). I bought 2 36V/10.5Ah LiMn packs from a guy Ebay.de apollo1900 in Germany for 160 Euros for both. He has a lot more so I highly recommend him or batteries if you live in Europe, you just send him an email requesting a price and see what deal you can make with him. He also sells chargers separately, but I found a reliable cheaper supplier for that as well http://www.ebay.com/itm/150952009075?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649.

I ended up putting this on my old Specialized which I have been riding on for 25 years. I needed to replace the rear cluster so ended up replacing the whole drive train and had the shop guy install the Pedelec sensor and hub motor wheel as well as I also needed a new tube on that rim. I installed everything else. I didn't have a bottom bracket tool and it was more expensive to try and order one from Germany than to just have the guy do it for me. I probably could have had him do the entire installation but I wanted to build up some experience. I also changed the charging plug on the kit for XT60 connectors http://www.ebay.com/itm/160541783067?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 and soldered those together and replaced the plug device on the batteries with these as well. It all went together pretty easy although my soldering iron is a bit too hot for close work (butane type). All my good tools and stuff are with my ex-wife number 2 in the US. As usual I left with nothing from that divorce as I did for the first one as well. It is tough to find tools here in Hungary and requires a lot of leg work so sometimes it is just easier to sub it out. Labor here is really good and very cheap. Parts less so. The whole thing went together logically and easily as it comes with a wiring harness to tie all the connectors (brakes, speed sensor, LCD display, 3 button switch, ad throttle) goigninto the motor controller and I mounted one battery in the triangle leaving it in it's aluminum case with internal BMS which appears to work fine. Time will tell and if I have to manually re-balance the pack I am familiar with the process and will buy an iMax charger for that. I mounted all the electronics into a small nylon bag which I used to carry my tool set in when I ride off road. I'll need to come up with an alternate solution for that now and the same for my water bottles.

I got it all hooked up and rode it today just in the street. Damn! I still have to figure out the controller. This kit comes with an LCD and a 3 button switch with 6 built in programs. On level 1 it moves at about 6 kph but if I start pedaling the thing ramps up to about 15kph. I haven't figured out how to run it in the opposite mode where I pedal and then add power with the throttle as an assist. As a e-bike this this is very powerful and has a lot of torque. When the trails dry out a bit more I'll go test it out in the woods. I'll post some photos later as well once I get the camera working. As it is now it is already more powerful than I had expected. We'll see what it does on hard trails. But, really, this is a very well thought out kit and I am very impressed with the quality of the assembly. There were no problems (not of my own making) in the installation at all. A most excellent kit for a first build and only $221. I can't recommend this high enough. Also, I have absolutely mo problem pedaling with all the extra weight which I am surprised at. I'll feel it on the hills but so far it sin't anything horrible and if the system craps out I can get home without too much extra effort.

Next project is a trailer to pull my inflatable catamaran to the lake. This will make my wife very happy as I end up trashing the Prius loading the boat stuff into the trunk. The boat packs down into 2 largish (6 foot long) bags each weighing 21 kg. Coupled with the battery powered air pump and all the junk I carry it will be a largish load but I am certain the bike can handle it. I used to pull my kids in a 2 seat trailer which was a struggle on hills in upstate New York (Ithaca/Dryden area) so this can't be any worse than that.

 

[borschelrh]

Photos of the build including the LCD display, motor, and battery mount.

 

[geeeyejo1]

Nice build - enjoy! I would be a little concerned about the plastic zip ties holding the battery - great placement but think they might stretch/snap under strain. I have my 48v15ah battery in the triangle in a bag and secure it with Velcro brand straps - I use 5 of the straps - three for the top tube, one across to the seat tube and another diagonally to the bottom front of the frame. Nice thing is I can easily remove the pack to take inside to charge.

 

[ambroseliao]

Congrats on your first build. I would also echo the battery mount isn't going to work long term. Doesn't that case come with a slide in bracket that you can mount to the bike?

 

[borschelrh]

Thanks, I echo your concerns. Yes, in a production bike the battery mount is included. These are used batteries, although taking the battery apart and checking the cells they are balanced and have full capacity so either they were never used or barely used. It looks like the BMS on these works fine and these are the Panasonic LiMn cells. The battery charges to 42V using the alternate charger so everything looks fine. I like that the battery is fused at both the charge and discharge points so these batteries seem to be ideal for me. I have searched but cannot find anyone selling the mount alone, or even the electrical socket which is why I made my own using XT60 connectors which are a bitch to solder, but work well. If anyone knows of a source for the mount I would appreciate it. I can build one and mount it to the tube which is my long term goal but I haven't had the chance yet. The zip ties are a temporary solution to go riding to see if it works. I was thinking to switch to large hose clamps temporarily as I can get them here from a local plumbers shop until I buy or build a fixed mounting plate. I could have mounted it to the rear rack which is why I initially installed it and had planned to put 2 of these batteries on them. But, the design of the battery case has the keyed switch and charging ports on opposite sides making mounting of 2 batteries at the same time difficult and it puts all the weight on the rear. I also wanted to get an idea of how much distance I can get from one battery alone. I rode about 10 miles yesterday and it barely used any charge but I am pedaling constantly. This is exactly what I wanted though, just assist when the going gets too tough. I am pleased it limits to 25 kph which is plenty fast for me. If the single battery can last me 2 hours with me doing most of the pedaling on our local trails then I will leave the second battery off and either mount it to the trailer and build a dual wiring harness for use when towing the boat to the lake, or using the mounting plate change batteries after each ride. The mount plate makes the most sense as I can just unmount the battery after each ride and bring it in to recharge much like I do for my BST-12-KITE battery powered air pump for the boat. Later I want to build a transformer to drop the 36V to 12V and run the air pump off the ebike battery and then I can take out the heavy lead acid batter in the air pump. I was thinking to do that anyway so I can mount lights on the bike. These are now mandatory equipment here and it is roughly a $100 fine to not have the proper equipment on the bike. I am currently using a bar mounted flashlight and rear battery powered LED to meet the requirements. I imagine they will also be serious about the speed as well as the EU mandates speed limits on ebikes and that probably has a hefty fine as well. I recently got a parking ticket (side street for a doctors appointment and the sign was obscured by a tree) and the fine was over $50 so they are getting serious about this. I have to use a fair amount of roads to get to the trails and our town is a showcase of the beauties of Hungary so there is a lot of police presence. Someone very powerful is diverting a huge amount of money into this town from the EU central funds. It is nice to have a new market, new city hall, new mountain bike park, new boat marina, new shopping centers (2), new rods, new sports center and all. Now we are getting an indoor olympic sized pool and aqua park, new train station, and an even larger new marina. All of this means a huge increase in tourism which is smart and I don't mind it too much as it brings in a lot of money to the region, but it also beings in a lot of police presence. It is a blessing and a curse, particularly on the bike trails around the lake. During high tourist season there are literally thousands of people riding their bikes on a small bike trail. None of this existed when we scouted out where to retire. But, it really is nice to see and it is a fantastically beautiful place. The National Park I ride in is wonderful and very few people ride in it.

 

[ambroseliao]

If you can post a picture of the battery case showing the mounting rail slot with some measurements, it might be possible to find a compatible rack.

 

[Gregory]

Good work.

I'd also remount the hub motor so the wires exit at the bottom, creating a drip loop so water doesn't find it quite so easy to get into the motor.

And use a tyre liner and/or slime, because the first flat is a PITA.

 

[borschelrh]

That's good advice about the wire and easy to fix. I remounted the battery using large hose clamps and it works fine. I was also thinking to use 4mm parachute cord to wrap it all around but this ended up working perfectly with no looseness after a hard ride. I think the rail won't work as I don't have the clearance looking at it carefully so this is a good solution. I took it out on the trails today and it handles great. If anything it is too fast. I don't want to ride 25 kph on hard trails but I have found a setting on the program of zero and only the throttle works so I only add throttle as needed on the trails. I rode about 15km today and it handles the hills fine but I do pedal constantly unless going downhill. At the lowest speed setting of 1 it has significantly more torque effect. What I found interesting is hardy any battery was used in that distance I suppose I'll have to ride it to depletion before I get an idea of how long it lasts in my usage. I now begin to see what people are doing by ramping up the voltages. Then you really ride it like a motorcycle rather than as a bicycle. For me I still want exercise so I prefer the pedal assist concept more. I am typically a hard and long distance rider. One thing I don't like are the hard handles so I'll have to find some gel handles. That is the problem with hard tail and no front suspension but it is good for osteoporosis to get the heavy vibration you find riding hard trails. Not too sure where to find a liner or slime here in Hungary but I'll check the bike store. I can see replacing a tire on a rear mount hub will be a very tough thing in the field. I do carry a tool set though and tire patches as I have had to do this periodically just riding normally. We have these huge thorn bushes that somehow get their thorns on the trails so flats are common. I definitely wouldn't want to have to push this thing 25 km back home.

 

[borschelrh]

I took it out yesterday on a 32 km ride and rode on the roads/bike trails at 30 kph with me pedaling in my max gear and providing roughly 75% of the work load. I have the cruise control set for 30 kph. This kit includes a controller that has 5 incremental settings for pedal assist. The lowest setting of 1 gives the highest torque and 5 the highest speed which I set for 50 kph. Setting it to 0 gives no pedal assist and the motor is only engaged with the throttle. I then took it out onto the Tihany peninsula on the sajkod trails and there are several very steep inclines at roughly 35 degrees each about 500 meters. I used to dog out about half way in granny gear and I am a strong hill climber even riding in standing position. Now I can ride it all the way up using motor assist although I can hear it laboring but it makes it okay again with me providing roughly 75% of the effort and I get to stay in the seat the whole time. Next time I'll try it with a setting of 0 and add throttle as needed. This was followed by a very steep incline where I had to get out over the forks to keeps it from falling over backwards, and again it made it all the way to the top. I have never been able to climb that pitch more than halfway on my own power. This is exactly what I have been looking for. I do notice it must have regen as I don't need brakes on long downhills and it doesn't get any faster than 40 kph and you can feel when the motor is generating electricity. So, after 32 km I was only 1/4 empty on both the battery gauge (built into the battery pack) and the LCD control panel. If that is correct then I might be able to get over 100 km of my typical riding assuming regen and me providing most of the effort. It was funny to pass a pack of racing road cyclists riding in a pack on my fat tire mountain bike. There is a very nice bike trail that more or less goes completely around the lake and parallels the main road 10 meters away. The cyclists were on the main road and I was on the trail.They looked pretty pissed at me, especially with my white hair. I was a serious triathlete for many years and I maintain a very fast pedal cadence of 120 so it must look funny to these guys me pedaling on the MTB and passing them.

 

[borschelrh]

View attachment 2Okay I can now report on how this has worked out after 6 months of nearly daily riding. I have built the bicycle trailer for use in toting my Smartkat inflatable catamaran to Lake Balaton. The boat normally packs down into 2 separate carry bags each weighing about 21 Kg. The trailer was a modification of a child carrier I got cheap off of Vatera here in Hungary. We welded a 1 cm tubular steel frame together and a lid. I painted everything with black metal pain and we skinned it with aluminum mesh. So far it works perfectly with the only issue being I need to keep the weight slightly forward or it starts shimmying too much. I am probably the laughing stock of the town but it works well and I ride about 10km to where I can launch the boat. I put everything in the trailer including a large battery powered air pump to get the 3.5 bar in the inflatable pontoons. I also have a spare sail, trapeze harness, life vests, water bottles, etc. I think the trailer with boat weighs well over 100 kg. I am 87 kg myself and my bike is another 40 kg as it is set up. Even so I can still climb hills and cruise at 28 kph all the way to the lake and back. Really, it is performing better than I had hoped. My original plan was to put the second battery pack on the trailer to get more juice for the trip but it turned out I didn't need it at all. So, this is cool. I get exercise and go sailing without trashing my wife's car. She wasn't too happy about this whole concept and it was a tough sell but now she sees the advantages to it. Of course I asked forgiveness rather than permission which usually works but perhaps with some friction. Anyway, this is now a part of my life and I am very happy with it.

The Ebike conversion mostly works well although I notice there has been a consistent problem with the controller speed sensor (magnet on the wheel spokes type) which often reads incorrectly (wild fluctuations up to 70 kph). If I throttle back to zero for a few seconds it returns to normal so it might be a voltage issue. I don't think it is the speed sensor itself but probably something wrong in the controller. I am using two used ebike Pedelec (LiMn type) batteries 36V12.5 Ah which I got two for 64 Euros from a guy in Germany so a pretty good deal even if they only last a year. I have only used (until yesterday when I switched it out for the second pack to see what is up with the battery controller) one pack and I notice it is slowly losing capacity over time. I'll tear it apart and check each cell individually and see what is up with it. The discharge rate is poor though and often it bottoms out on long hard climbs which is a function of the LiMn batteries which I think are rated at 2C. Usually even though the display is reading zero I can still get assistance all the way. Nothing gets too hot even after a 20 degree (yeah!!!) 3 km hill climb. I now have over 3,000 km on the setup and it is fairly reliable and definitely assists when riding off road. From the school of hard knocks I have learned a lot. I didn't anticipate having to adjust the spokes during the first ride and the wheel got very wobbly as they loosened up so much. The cross lacing pattern puts too much strain on the spokes as well and they began to fail at about 1,500 km. I have a local guy who replaced them all with 3 mm stainless (hand made) and he didn't cross lace and they are working perfectly. The original spokes were 2.4 mm and relatively weak and I lost about 15 of them over a month or so then decided to just replace them all. I have had no problems with the spokes since.

The controller is a problem and getting worse, at least this is my assumption. I now notice an issue with voltage drain. It sags almost immediately now and does it with the replacement unused pack so it isn't the battery. I replaced the battery pack battery with the spare but it went immediately back to the problem so I am thinking the controller is whacked. I want to upgrade my controller anyway and am thinking to move to 48 Volts at the same time. The hub motor is rated at 36V500W. Can someone please validate my assumptions that I can just bolt on a 48V controller and battery (I will replace the computer controller as well and go with a Cycle Analyst v3 once it comes out)? That is my plan for this Winter.

Overall I am satisfied with my current setup but can see the advantages of going to higher voltages and LiFePO4 batteries. I currently get about 40 km of very hard trail riding with one battery. This is on very rough trails and some steep upgrades. I can cruise at 30 kph on just motor alone on the flats but typically I don't do that. I am still riding for exercise and keep the throttle off Pedelec mode (it sucks anyway as the speed sensor is all over the place) and just apply throttle when I need it. I ride mostly pedaling with slight assistance (or a lot on a steep climb). I put a watt meter in line so I can see what the battery is doing and it seems fine. The LCD computer monitor that came with the kit mostly works well except the speed sensor sucks so bad. Again, I think it is an issue with the controller.

 

[beast775]

Well built trailer! a move to 48v will help with pulling that trailer for sure.and yes that hub will take 48v controller and battery,and a cycle analyst will help with you being able to adjust amps once you get the ca dialed in.

 

[borschelrh]

Thanks. That is my plan to upgrade everything to 48V, a new controller, and a cycle analyst. I am still contemplating the battery. I may try just tearing apart the pedelec packs and making a 50V battery from those or just bite the bullet and either make one from Hobby King LiPo's or something like Ping battery LiFePO4 packs. I keep getting flats on the front so need to get a tube liner and gel setup. I'll be in the US next week so will get those there as it is difficult here in Hungary. I may have to also bite the bullet and get shocks up front as well. I am very resistant to that though. The season is nearly over here and I have put the boat away for the Winter so am now focused on hard trail riding again. I checked all the wiring which solved some of my problems but the speed sensor still is erratic. Anyway, after I upgrade all the stuff it should ride better.

 

[agniusm]

Hi, did you get Accelerated Systems sinewave controller as that 3 button switch looks like theirs?