First build (Cute Q-100SX) - please critique

[bakerb]

OK, I've been lurking for quite a while, trying to learn as much as possible. I think I've learned enough that I'd like to embark upon my first e-bike build. I'd like to electrify my Yuba Mundo cargo bike. I use this bike for carting my kids back and forth to the bus stop, on rail-trails, etc. I am an avid endurance mountain bike racer, so anything I electrify will be just for assistance purpose (i.e. I'll always be pedaling along with the motor). Check out the bike below, as well as my solar panel installation (which will provide the electricity for this build).

I'd like to build something that is unobtrusive, light-weight, and assists with carrying a 35-70 pound load up fairly steep dirt roads. Distance is very limited. 1-10 miles round trip. The most common use is back and forth to the bus stop with 1 or 2 kids. 1 mile round trip and about 200 feet of climbing in last 1/4 mile. Also, I'd like to continue using disc brakes. I've eliminated rear wheel drive due to the complexity of the non-standard drop-outs, as well the desire to stick with my current 3x9 drivetrain.

So, with that being said, please critique the following proposed build:

Motor - 350W 36V Cute Q-100SX. $66. 2000g.
Controller - Infineon 20A. $95. 430g.
Throttle - Left side half twist. $15. ~100g.
Torque Arm - TorqArmRev2. $22. ~50g.
Battery - Turnigy 10s1p 5000mah. $115. 1305g.
Rim - Mavic 281 that I already have.
Spokes - DT Champion 14g. $18.
Nipples - Brass.
Brake levers - Shimano LX brifters that I already have.
Bike - Yuba Mundo that I already have.
Charger -FMA Cellpro 10s. $140.

With an additional $123 spent for shipping, the total is just below $600. Total additional weight is ~3885g (~8.6 lbs), if the specs can be believed (which is rarely the case).

I've considered going even lighter with the Q-85SX, but I figure the additional wattage would be useful for loaded hill climbing.

I realize the battery is small, but that is part of the allure for me. Lightweight and unobtrusive. Plus, I like to pedal.

Are the Cute motor hubs all 36 hole? Any idea what the hub specs are for wheelbuilding purposes?

I'm concerned about wiring everything together. I can solder the leads for the battery / charger, but I'm worried about the hub/controller wiring. From what I've read, it may be a guessing game to get that figured out. Anyone out there already worked out the wiring for a Cute motor in conjunction with an Infineon controller?

Any other miscellaneous stuff that I'm missing?

Thanks for any input,
Brad

edit: fixed rim typo

 

[DAND214]

I had pretty good luck with the 128 Cute hub.
The 100 is 36 hole, dia is 108mm and said to be as rugged as the 128.
The infinion controller is great but you might order the cheap controller with the hub. The 12 fet 500w unit for $25.00.
I am guessing you are getting it from BMSBATTERY so the is why I suggest the second controller. Cheap insurance if you blow one.
I am useing the 12 fet on a Conhis 24v 500w at 48v and it performs great.
The bike looks like it will do the job with room to spare.
Good luck with the build.
Dan

 

[lifepo4ever]

nice bike but if you use lipo if it was me i will go with 2 pack so you can go far because if you have to load the kid and stuff your consommation of current will increase
and you will use all the pack don't forget a 5000mah of lipo its only 4000mah because after 80% of the pack you can damage the cells


its my dream to have a roof like yours

 

[bakerb]

I had pretty good luck with the 128 Cute hub.
The 100 is 36 hole, dia is 108mm and said to be as rugged as the 128.
The infinion controller is great but you might order the cheap controller with the hub. The 12 fet 500w unit for $25.00.
I am guessing you are getting it from BMSBATTERY so the is why I suggest the second controller. Cheap insurance if you blow one.
I am useing the 12 fet on a Conhis 24v 500w at 48v and it performs great.
The bike looks like it will do the job with room to spare.
Good luck with the build.
Dan

Thanks for the comments Dan. I suppose I should just order the controller from BMSBATTERY also. $25 is certainly cheap insurance considering the total cost. Maybe I'll actually start with that controller and upgrade if necessary after some use and experience.

Brad

 

[bakerb]

nice bike but if you use lipo if it was me i will go with 2 pack so you can go far because if you have to load the kid and stuff your consommation of current will increase
and you will use all the pack don't forget a 5000mah of lipo its only 4000mah because after 80% of the pack you can damage the cells


its my dream to have a roof like yours

lifepo4ever-
Good point on the lipo capacity. I was assuming they were rated at usable capacity. I plan to install some type of monitoring to ensure I don't ruin the batteries by running them down too low. I'll probably pick up a second pack later (mainly just to spread out the costs over time).

The photovoltaic system is relatively new. I've only had it for about 6 months. It is a 4.4kW system and supplies 100% of our household needs. Pretty cool.

Brad

 

[snowranger]

Is that an off-grid setup? If so, are you going to plug the FMA directly into a battery bank? Sounds cool.

Edit: probably not. I see a utility pole right behind.

 

[bakerb]

Is that an off-grid setup? If so, are you going to plug the FMA directly into a battery bank? Sounds cool.

Edit: probably not. I see a utility pole right behind.

Grid inter-tie. No batteries for me to pay for, maintain, etc. On the other hand, if the power goes out, mine also does. Additionally, I still pay the power company $14 a month or basic connectivity.

Brad

 

[BikeFanatic]

Brad
you will be fine with the 5 AH pack for up to ten miles as an assist. I use my batteries like that10 series
one 5 ah pack at a time - all my trips are ten miles or less, and the lipo is so light and you can put them anywhere. I have these yellow front tube bags they are all over Ebay but the ones that say "new larger size" are perfect for two -five series lipo

http://tinyurl.com/2ch3krc

cant help you with the cute but would like to hear about your experience when you get one.
I love your solar set up, cool.

 

[lifepo4ever]

nice bike but if you use lipo if it was me i will go with 2 pack so you can go far because if you have to load the kid and stuff your consommation of current will increase
and you will use all the pack don't forget a 5000mah of lipo its only 4000mah because after 80% of the pack you can damage the cells


its my dream to have a roof like yours

lifepo4ever-
Good point on the lipo capacity. I was assuming they were rated at usable capacity. I plan to install some type of monitoring to ensure I don't ruin the batteries by running them down too low. I'll probably pick up a second pack later (mainly just to spread out the costs over time).

The photovoltaic system is relatively new. I've only had it for about 6 months. It is a 4.4kW system and supplies 100% of our household needs. Pretty cool.

Brad

you can use a wattmeter at hobbycity.com or if you want invest more like i have a CA (cycleanalyst) for monitoring your battery

 

[lifepo4ever]

Brad
you will be fine with the 5 AH pack for up to ten miles as an assist. I use my batteries like that10 series
one 5 ah pack at a time - all my trips are ten miles or less, and the lipo is so light and you can put them anywhere. I have these yellow front tube bags they are all over Ebay but the ones that say "new larger size" are perfect for two -five series lipo

http://tinyurl.com/2ch3krc

cant help you with the cute but would like to hear about your experience when you get one.
I love your solar set up, cool.

do you think i can put 8 pack of 6s 5000mah inside this yellow bag? and why they call that tube bags? is it inflatable :lol: :lol: because this can save me 5000$
on my girlfriend if yes i will to the guy on ebay if he have 38dd size

 

[el_walto]

I'm looking to build a simular battery.
I like your setup. I think the 5Ah 10S pack would be fine. You should look at those hobby king battery monitors: http://hobbycity.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7226

Is there a cheaper 10s charger out there? I'd prefer one with no buttons just charges/balances through the balance wires and i can leave plugged into the batteries.

If i bought four of these :http://hobbycity.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6507, could i leave them plugged into the batteries? These would charge a dead 10s 5ah battery pack in 5-6 hours. Do they make that style balancer in 5S or 10S?

I guess i'm dreaming of a small lipoly pack that will charge/balance just bu plugging an outlet anywhere without fussing with wires and buttons and such.

 

[bakerb]

nice bike but if you use lipo if it was me i will go with 2 pack so you can go far because if you have to load the kid and stuff your consommation of current will increase
and you will use all the pack don't forget a 5000mah of lipo its only 4000mah because after 80% of the pack you can damage the cells


its my dream to have a roof like yours

lifepo4ever-
Good point on the lipo capacity. I was assuming they were rated at usable capacity. I plan to install some type of monitoring to ensure I don't ruin the batteries by running them down too low. I'll probably pick up a second pack later (mainly just to spread out the costs over time).

The photovoltaic system is relatively new. I've only had it for about 6 months. It is a 4.4kW system and supplies 100% of our household needs. Pretty cool.

Brad

you can use a wattmeter at hobbycity.com or if you want invest more like i have a CA (cycleanalyst) for monitoring your battery

That wattmeter looks at hobbycity.com looks sufficient for my needs. Thanks for the heads up.

Brad

 

[bakerb]

Brad
you will be fine with the 5 AH pack for up to ten miles as an assist. I use my batteries like that10 series
one 5 ah pack at a time - all my trips are ten miles or less, and the lipo is so light and you can put them anywhere. I have these yellow front tube bags they are all over Ebay but the ones that say "new larger size" are perfect for two -five series lipo

http://tinyurl.com/2ch3krc

cant help you with the cute but would like to hear about your experience when you get one.
I love your solar set up, cool.

Thanks Ian. I'm not sure how I'll mount the lipo yet, but that looks like a decent option. I suspect this whole thing will take months (winter project), but I'll try to remember to update the thread with feedback as things progress.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

nice bike but if you use lipo if it was me i will go with 2 pack so you can go far because if you have to load the kid and stuff your consommation of current will increase
and you will use all the pack don't forget a 5000mah of lipo its only 4000mah because after 80% of the pack you can damage the cells


its my dream to have a roof like yours

That roof is sick alright!!

 

[GCinDC]

Motor - 350W 36V Cute Q-100SX. $66. 2000g.
Controller - Infineon 20A. $95. 430g.
Throttle - Left side half twist. $15. ~100g.
Torque Arm - TorqArmRev2. $22. ~50g.
Battery - Turnigy 10s1p 5000mah. $115. 1305g.
Rim - Mavic 251 that I already have.
Spokes - DT Champion 14g. $18.
Nipples - Brass.
Brake levers - Shimano LX brifters that I already have.
Bike - Yuba Mundo that I already have.
Charger -FMA Cellpro 10s. $140.

Motor: 350W is not that much. I'd go 500W min if you're hauling any weight/doing hills. My wife's 250W helps her walk it up a hill, but it will not pull a trailer. Motors are the cheapest part of the equation, relatively, and you won't notice another pound or two once you're electric.
Controller: Agree w/ above that controller's too much, and if you buy together w/ motor, you shouldn't have to rewire unmatched connectors.
Throttle: Why left side half twist? Do you have grip shifters? If so, you might have some problems there...
Battery: You might consider the hard packs or the long ones, the 10S ones but make sure to hook up balance connectors in proper order!
BMS: You'll need some kind of lipo buzzer, like the BM6's to monitor cell voltage
Charger: Cool for a 10s charger, but you'll need a 120 AC -> 12VDC power supply as well.
Torque arm: got a link for that?

 

[GCinDC]

Ps. Love the bike!

 

[bakerb]

Controller: Agree w/ above that controller's too much, and if you buy together w/ motor, you shouldn't have to rewire unmatched connectors.

Good point. I'll go with a matched controller from bmsbattery for now.

Throttle: Why left side half twist? Do you have grip shifters? If so, you might have some problems there...

I have Gripshift on a few of my bikes, so I was thinking I'd go lefty throttle in case I move the system to one of those bikes.

Battery: You might consider the hard packs or the long ones, the 10S ones but make sure to hook up balance connectors in proper order!

Can you elaborate on correct connection? I was assuming it was pretty straightforward.

BMS: You'll need some kind of lipo buzzer, like the BM6's to monitor cell voltage

Check.

Charger: Cool for a 10s charger, but you'll need a 120 AC -> 12VDC power supply as well.

Good point. I have a few laying around, but I'm not sure they'll have the amperage necessary.

Torque arm: got a link for that?

http://ebikes.ca/store/store_connectors.php

 

[GCinDC]

Where are you getting the lipo? Will it have a bms? If you're buying two hobbyking 5s 5ah packs, you'll have two 5s connectors. I don't know the charger. Does it accept two 5s balance connections or one 10s? If two, you'll need to put the pack with the neg lead on the right, neg side... not at compter now so hard to see. Can you put links to all the components you're considering? Or are they all from ebikes?

Re the throttle, it would depend on expected speeds, which gears you'll use. Most throttles seem to be in the way of grip shifters tho..

I gotta recommend 10ah too. Will last longer and work better.

 

[bakerb]

Here is the original list with links:

Motor - 350W 36V Cute Q-100SX. $66. 2000g. http://www.bmsbattery.com/index.php..._id=71&zenid=5447cf57aa700080b88e9d61988f010f
Controller - Infineon 20A. $95. 430g. http://ebikes.ca/store/store_controllers.php
Throttle - Left side half twist. $15. ~100g. http://ebikes.ca/store/store_controllers.php
Torque Arm - TorqArmRev2. $22. ~50g. http://ebikes.ca/store/store_connectors.php
Battery - Turnigy 10s1p 5000mah. $115. 1305g. http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=14609
Rim - Mavic 281 that I already have.
Spokes - DT Champion 14g. $18.
Nipples - Brass.
Brake levers - Shimano LX brifters that I already have.
Bike - Yuba Mundo that I already have.
Charger -FMA Cellpro 10s. $140. http://www.quantumhobby.com/FMA_Cellpro_10s_Lipo_Charger_p/lc10s10adc.htm

I'm having second thoughts now and may just get the basic 350w kit from bmsbattery: built wheel, controller, twist throttle, levers (which I won't use), and PAS sensor (which I won't use). http://www.bmsbattery.com/index.php...3828d1&zenid=5447cf57aa700080b88e9d61988f010f

That would total $237 delivered. Then, I'd stick with the 10s1p 5ah lipoly battery, Cellpro charger, and torque arm. This would be a simpler and cheaper first project and I could always change things out later. I think it would still meet my needs for a lightweight and unobtrusive pedal-assist solution.

too many choices...

 

[GCinDC]

a lot of choices, but you seem to be on the right path. the key is not to spend too much on your first build...

and yeah, that 10s pack has two 5s connectors. the charger 'completion' page says you'll need an add'l adapter board. get that too. and you can only plug the jst-xh's in one way. unless it's somehow protected... one will be for cells 1-5 and the other will be for cells 6-10 and the one that's 1-5 will have to go on the negative side of the adapter board...

 

[oldpiper]

One advantage of going the kit route - it has components which have already been found compatible. And then, you can start dreaming at your leisure, getting addicted to ES, ...

Cameron

 

[bakerb]

Well, I've jumped in...order below. Any idea how long delivery generally takes from bmsbattery?

I'm also now toying with the idea of running 2 5s 5000mah packs in series. This would be pretty cheap (~$93 shipped). I already have a 1-6s charger, so I'd save a huge amount of $$$ going this route. I can work out the wiring and understand that charging 2 packs will be more of a pain than one. Any other downsides to this approach?

Thanks,
Brad

Products Total
1 ea. 250W/350W Q-85/100SX Motor E-Bike Kit

* Voltage Selection - 36Volts
* Throttle: - twist grip throttle
* Hub Motor Selection - Q-F-100SX 350W Front Driving Disc Brake Type 100mm Fork Size
* Battery Case: - ABS "Little Frog" 06
* Freewheel Selection - No Freewheel
* Wheel(rim) Size - 26"
* Battery Type - No Battery Pack



Thanks,
Brad

 

[lifepo4ever]

you can also purchase a complete kit except the battery from ebike.ca or ebikekit you will save some money also because everytime you buy seperated you have to paid the shipping cost and at the end you will spend more

 

[el_walto]

Well, I've jumped in...order below. Any idea how long delivery generally takes from bmsbattery?

I'm also now toying with the idea of running 2 5s 5000mah packs in series. This would be pretty cheap (~$93 shipped). I already have a 1-6s charger, so I'd save a huge amount of $$$ going this route. I can work out the wiring and understand that charging 2 packs will be more of a pain than one. Any other downsides to this approach?
Brad

I figured this is what you were doing all along, i had no idea they even sold a 10s1p pack. Essentially it's the same thing.

 

[bakerb]

I figured this is what you were doing all along, i had no idea they even sold a 10s1p pack. Essentially it's the same thing.

For some reason, I was fixating on straight up 10s packs, which require a 10s charger (big bucks). I'll go or the 2x5s packs.

Thanks!