First build - Qulbix Raptor 140

[BCTECH]

Hi All,

This will be my first ebike. Some friends have recommended to start with something more simple to start with, but I see myself will be upgrading all anyway, so why not start with something good quality and last for the next few years.
I have been doing some search and found that it is in real very difficult for building up from ground unless you have at least one year + experience.
I hope I can get help from here on my first build. Also hope will be a reference for people like me who trying to start.

First I guess I will need to provide some information on the usage of the bike in order to pick the right component.

How I use the bike:
80% offroad - able to climb some hill (30 degree hill non-stop for 15-25 mins) per ride , going bigger obstacle (wood, stone, stairs ,....), small jump, carrying some load occasionally when traveling - I guess need a lot of torque
20% onroad - simply going to trail

Speed - not so important. around 30mile/hr will be fine. Torque is most important
Weight - save as much as possible. Frame + suspension will not care. These are main components and can NOT be compromised for any weakness possibility

Frame:
First part will be ordering the frame. there are only 3 choices out there.
Bomber - need to upgrade anyway so no need a complete bike
Phasor - looks kind of bulky
Qulbix - good looking
Just by looking, I picked Qulbix, quality wise I am not sure Phasor or Quilbix anyway
I am in the process or ordering the frame, and would like some input from raptor owner.

Question:
- offroader mentioned there needs some milling to the brakecaliper mount to center the cromotor. Any other owner know how much to mill down ?
(also special thanks to offroader who helped me a lot get started)
- I have seen - greenroad - has built one with mid drive, how much power comparing to rear hub ? will mid drive be better for torque and small jumps on my application?
- Do I need to order Dropout Reinforcements and Schlumpf High Speed-Drive together?

Motor:
Cromtor V3 -
Question:
is this the only choice?

Wheel and tires:
Rear - 17in prowheel motorcross

Battery:
not sure and need input

I will update the list time by time, as it takes time to sort out what is needed.

thanks everyone in advance

 

[lennovich]

Vector frame is intresting also...and cheaper

 

[BCTECH]

Vector frame is intresting also...and cheaper

is this a copy of qulbix?

 

[MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER]

If you would like to have Schlumpf, Vector frame is not suitable.

 

[Jonboy]

is this a copy of qulbix?

Nope the vector been out some time..

the raptor a year or so

 

[BCTECH]

is this a copy of qulbix?

Nope the vector been out some time..

the raptor a year or so

i just did some research, vector says the bike starts production only in Jun 2015, and not much review for the 100 pre-production they have sold.
i hoping to have a proven frame for my first build. And 100% do not want any copy
raptor seems have a couple of owners here and seems going strong. I hope i am right?!

 

[lennovich]

its not a copy . You can buy the frame already ,check the topic http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=61259&start=300

 

[BCTECH]

looking at Vector more ....found that the pedaling is on the swing arm. I assume that's a big hold off comparing with raptor design ?!

 

[MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER]

Yes, so you can't use a standard bottom bracket.

 

[marcn]

A lot of the components you choose may be different to other builds. Offloader, Merlin and snellemin are the first names that come to mind when i think of the Raptor, since they were the early adopters and had hundreds of useful posts that helped me in my build.

I've built my Raptor a particular way, and similar to Snells where I'm using a 5 speed freewheel but I'm also using PAS.

I think the first step is deciding on your motor and battery configuration. You say you want a lot of torque. I also wanted a lot of torque, but that's hard to define if I've never ridden 60A at 88volts. Go with something you can work your way up to without having to upgrade or replace parts within a few months.

Dropout reinforcement sure if you're constantly pushing over 6kw or you think you will some time in the future. HSD is good for pedalling at over 50km/h if you run a 14T or lower.

For choosing a hub most Raptor builders have opted for the Cro but there's nothing wrong with picking one of the new Crowns. Once again depends how much power you want.

Since this is your first build I'd recommend some 18650 cells instead of lipo. Theres plenty of things that can go wrong in your first build and for us we wanted to deal with a more forgiving chemistry. You also have EM3ev.com who can put together a custom pack for you.

Check out our build thread in my signature for some of the basics in building up a Raptor.

 

[BCTECH]

Thank you for replying my post.

I think the motor and battery come after the frame. I pretty much set on the raptor frame after a lot of research.
I never had chance to ride on a ebike so I don't know how much power I will need, that's why I planning to go for cromotor which everything is using and I can control the power by using battery. only downside is heavy, so I don't need to think too much on motor I guess ?!

At first part, I think I will be using half of the battery capacity to start with. Then I can always adjust later.
lipo might be easier? since they come as a pack and I don't need any welding by just connecting pack to pack.

sorry to ask but what's the benefit you using 5speed?
can I use single speed only? with a big motor I don't need gear change right? motor brings up the speed by rpm?

A lot of the components you choose may be different to other builds. Offloader, Merlin and snellemin are the first names that come to mind when i think of the Raptor, since they were the early adopters and had hundreds of useful posts that helped me in my build.

I've built my Raptor a particular way, and similar to Snells where I'm using a 5 speed freewheel but I'm also using PAS.

I think the first step is deciding on your motor and battery configuration. You say you want a lot of torque. I also wanted a lot of torque, but that's hard to define if I've never ridden 60A at 88volts. Go with something you can work your way up to without having to upgrade or replace parts within a few months.

Dropout reinforcement sure if you're constantly pushing over 6kw or you think you will some time in the future. HSD is good for pedalling at over 50km/h if you run a 14T or lower.

For choosing a hub most Raptor builders have opted for the Cro but there's nothing wrong with picking one of the new Crowns. Once again depends how much power you want.

Since this is your first build I'd recommend some 18650 cells instead of lipo. Theres plenty of things that can go wrong in your first build and for us we wanted to deal with a more forgiving chemistry. You also have EM3ev.com who can put together a custom pack for you.

Check out our build thread in my signature for some of the basics in building up a Raptor.

 

[marcn]

Thank you for replying my post.

I think the motor and battery come after the frame. I pretty much set on the raptor frame after a lot of research.
I never had chance to ride on a ebike so I don't know how much power I will need, that's why I planning to go for cromotor which everything is using and I can control the power by using battery. only downside is heavy, so I don't need to think too much on motor I guess ?!

At first part, I think I will be using half of the battery capacity to start with. Then I can always adjust later.
lipo might be easier? since they come as a pack and I don't need any welding by just connecting pack to pack.

sorry to ask but what's the benefit you using 5speed?
can I use single speed only? with a big motor I don't need gear change right? motor brings up the speed by rpm?

Sorry, from the sounds of things I thought you had decided on the Raptor already

Controlling your power will come from the controller and/or Cycle Analyst/Max-E. You may have a battery pack capable of discharging up to 100A peak, but only if the controller or the CA/MaxE allow it. That's what I mean by working your way up. These devices allow you to control how large loads are. You could set them to 200W if you wanted to and make the bike behave similar to a typical OEM ebike.

LIPO is the best bang for buck (no pun intended). You get high discharge capacity at a good price. But with Cells like the Samsung 25R, LG 18650HE2, or Sony VTC5, 18650 cells are beginning to have pretty good discharge capabilities as well, while being much safer to user error.

You can save weight on the Raptor, but you'll need to consider bicycle wheels, a smaller battery pack, and a lighter motor. You could be able to bring it down to sub 40kg, maybe under, I'm not sure. It goes back to what you want in terms of range, power etc.

That's correct. You can use a single speed, which is what most people on the Raptor are doing since their bike is being throttled 100% of the time. I wanted to be able to pedal as if the bike was a normal (albeit heavy) ebike, with the motor activated via PAS and limited in power (500-1000W). If I want throttle, I can still use it, which would give me full power. It's the option of having both.

I tend to ride with other folk quite a bit, so it's good to be able to pedal along side them without relying on minute throttle adjustments from 0-5000w. Thanks to Merlin who suggested the idea for this.

 

[BCTECH]

[/quote]Sorry, from the sounds of things I thought you had decided on the Raptor already

Controlling your power will come from the controller and/or Cycle Analyst/Max-E. You may have a battery pack capable of discharging up to 100A peak, but only if the controller or the CA/MaxE allow it. That's what I mean by working your way up. These devices allow you to control how large loads are. You could set them to 200W if you wanted to and make the bike behave similar to a typical OEM ebike.

LIPO is the best bang for buck (no pun intended). You get high discharge capacity at a good price. But with Cells like the Samsung 25R, LG 18650HE2, or Sony VTC5, 18650 cells are beginning to have pretty good discharge capabilities as well, while being much safer to user error.

You can save weight on the Raptor, but you'll need to consider bicycle wheels, a smaller battery pack, and a lighter motor. You could be able to bring it down to sub 40kg, maybe under, I'm not sure. It goes back to what you want in terms of range, power etc.

That's correct. You can use a single speed, which is what most people on the Raptor are doing since their bike is being throttled 100% of the time. I wanted to be able to pedal as if the bike was a normal (albeit heavy) ebike, with the motor activated via PAS and limited in power (500-1000W). If I want throttle, I can still use it, which would give me full power. It's the option of having both.

I tend to ride with other folk quite a bit, so it's good to be able to pedal along side them without relying on minute throttle adjustments from 0-5000w. Thanks to Merlin who suggested the idea for this.[/quote]

haha yes was very close on the frame decision, then people mentioned vector frame.....
after some research I am back on track.

ok understand the controller part for the power. Just thinking getting more at the begining to avoid future upgrade.
I know I have to watch out the weight too. I hope I can save weight by not eliminate the choice of frame, motor, since the bike need to be strong and power.
if lipo is lighter than 18650, then I will give it a try

is there any like 2 speed where you can still pedal? I hope not putting many gears on the bike, also save some weight

 

[marcn]

Buying a HSD if you're planning to have a single speed does seem like a waste of money. You could always go for a three speed freewheel with the HSD, essentially giving you 6 gears and a good gear ratio. Do you want to pedal the bike at all? Most people don't with high powered setups.

 

[BCTECH]

Buying a HSD if you're planning to have a single speed does seem like a waste of money. You could always go for a three speed freewheel with the HSD, essentially giving you 6 gears and a good gear ratio. Do you want to pedal the bike at all? Most people don't with high powered setups.

i still would like to pedal in a low speed , then throttle on hills, high speed offroad/onroad (above 45km)
again i never ridden any ebike, i do not how fast they go and the feeling of pedal vs throttle at same low speed.
my thinking was always pedal during start up/low speed, then only use throttle when highspeed, or getting tired when going to a long way or uphil.
that makes me thinking i only need one gear/single speed ....