markobetti
10 kW
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2009
- Messages
- 620
nieles said:
wow really cool Niles and functionall!!!
First numbers from Colossus 7kW
- Thread starter olaf-lampe
- Start date
wow really cool Niles and functionall!!!
nieles
10 kW
the newest version!
i think this is the this is the best compromise between strength and easy to make.
View attachment end cover collossus motor radial fan (2part) V2.PDF
i think this is the this is the best compromise between strength and easy to make.
View attachment end cover collossus motor radial fan (2part) V2.PDF
mdd0127
100 kW
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- Sep 30, 2008
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- 1,084
That looks nice! The stock is on the way and I have all of the code made to cut it. I'll just have to reverse the direction of the blades if you need them going the way they're going in your models. That's no big deal at all though. The reason I put the two mm relief pocket in the endcap that the blades fit into is just to stiffen the whole assembly up. Probably isn't necessary. I think this design will really help these motors and people with tunigy 80-100's might be able to take advantage of it too.
markobetti
10 kW
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- Jul 16, 2009
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- 620
I agree , what niles made would fit turnigy and colossus. It would be advantage and first upgrade option for this kind of motors .
nieles
10 kW
mounting it on a turnigy 80-100 would be very easy.. just push it in the can and drill through the holes in the can, take it off and thread the holes. ready
mdd0127,
how are you going to take off the old endcap?
mine is glued in pretty well
I would like to use one of these endcaps, i think I will damage the magnets if I try to take the old one off.
mdd0127,
how are you going to take off the old endcap?
mine is glued in pretty well
I would like to use one of these endcaps, i think I will damage the magnets if I try to take the old one off.
olaf-lampe
10 kW
nieles said:
Very nice design nieles!
Someone mentioned you'd have to use a lathe to cut out the old endcap.I'm afraid this could crack or loosen the magnets.
But heating up the glue is no option either.
IMHO it would be just fair, if markobetti ( or their former manufacturer ) would sponsor new cans and magnets to be assembled with this new endcap ( only for those, who had been the guinee pigs and have problems with off centred cans ). Maybe they could even let the new cap be made in china....
It was a production fault, so there should be some kind of warranty?
Only my two cent
Olaf
mdd0127
100 kW
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When we got these motors, we did know that it was a small, early, china built run, organized by enthusiasts and pioneers and I like to think friends, in Croatia. There are inherently going to be issues in something like this. I'm sure the guys didn't make much if any off of these motors after you consider all of the time they probably spent developing and arranging everything. It also appears that they've decided to go with a different manufacturer for the larger motors so maybe there were just issues with the factory. Marko offered to get me new magnets and the factory wants more for them than magnets4less.com. How many motors are out there with alignment or magnet issues? That would be good to know. It it's five, then there's no sense mobilizing all of the people needed to correct the problem. If it's 500, I probably have different opinions but I don't see the thread or the forum flooding with posts about problem motors. It's likely that a few of us just got some Friday afternoon built motors but we'll end up with much better motor in the long run because of it.
Anyway, when I put myself in Marko's shoes, I would be relieved that my customers had worked out a solution and dreading messing with one of those factories over a few hundred dollars worth of magnets total. I'm hoping he's making some new, more awesome motor come into reality, with better manufacturers and I'd much rather he be working on that!
Rare earth prices were just skyrocketed by the manipulators too so that's monkey wrenching things.
I don't expect any warranty service is what I'm getting at.
If your magnets are straight and you're just worried about getting the tangs out after the lathe gets most of it, that seems like dremel time to me! The tangs would come out pretty easily with a cut off wheel and a little carbide ball. That's my plan anyway.
The stock for the new end caps is $4.57/inch and I ordered it in 1 1/8" thick chunks because I don't have a bandsaw. This makes it $9.14 per end cap in aluminum and roughly $3.00 for the end plate. The magnets are $4ish each. It's not a lot to do for what I think we'll end up with. I can also make them with the blades going in whatever direction you need. For regular contributing members with these that need new end caps, I'd be happy to contribute back to the forum by providing new, fan integrated, hall mount end caps for the cost of materials and shipping. If your motor is fine and you just want to upgrade or you want one for your turnigy, I'd recommend showing your interest here and if demand is high enough, maybe we can get some made. So Olaf, neiles, and anyone else, I just need to know what direction you'd like your fan blades to go. I finalized all of the code last night, so as soon as the stock gets here, it's on!
Also, last night, I got to thinking about hall sensors. Since I'll have a piece of plate in the mill that will end up being attached to the can and lined up with the magnets, I though it would be a good idea to machine pockets to hold magnets in the end cap. Somehow, the ideas of picking up from the back of the can, and the internal sensors between stator slots just don't sit well with me. I'm always thinking, "How do the motor coils not trip the hall sensors? and How can the sensors "see" the magnets "cleanly" from the back side of the can?" As you can probably tell, I'm no expert here! Anyway, I think the 14 little magnets on the outside of the endcap will provide a cleaner trigger. I'd love to hear any other opinions on this! I'll post the dxf in a minute.
Anyway, when I put myself in Marko's shoes, I would be relieved that my customers had worked out a solution and dreading messing with one of those factories over a few hundred dollars worth of magnets total. I'm hoping he's making some new, more awesome motor come into reality, with better manufacturers and I'd much rather he be working on that!
Rare earth prices were just skyrocketed by the manipulators too so that's monkey wrenching things.
I don't expect any warranty service is what I'm getting at.
If your magnets are straight and you're just worried about getting the tangs out after the lathe gets most of it, that seems like dremel time to me! The tangs would come out pretty easily with a cut off wheel and a little carbide ball. That's my plan anyway.
The stock for the new end caps is $4.57/inch and I ordered it in 1 1/8" thick chunks because I don't have a bandsaw. This makes it $9.14 per end cap in aluminum and roughly $3.00 for the end plate. The magnets are $4ish each. It's not a lot to do for what I think we'll end up with. I can also make them with the blades going in whatever direction you need. For regular contributing members with these that need new end caps, I'd be happy to contribute back to the forum by providing new, fan integrated, hall mount end caps for the cost of materials and shipping. If your motor is fine and you just want to upgrade or you want one for your turnigy, I'd recommend showing your interest here and if demand is high enough, maybe we can get some made. So Olaf, neiles, and anyone else, I just need to know what direction you'd like your fan blades to go. I finalized all of the code last night, so as soon as the stock gets here, it's on!
Also, last night, I got to thinking about hall sensors. Since I'll have a piece of plate in the mill that will end up being attached to the can and lined up with the magnets, I though it would be a good idea to machine pockets to hold magnets in the end cap. Somehow, the ideas of picking up from the back of the can, and the internal sensors between stator slots just don't sit well with me. I'm always thinking, "How do the motor coils not trip the hall sensors? and How can the sensors "see" the magnets "cleanly" from the back side of the can?" As you can probably tell, I'm no expert here! Anyway, I think the 14 little magnets on the outside of the endcap will provide a cleaner trigger. I'd love to hear any other opinions on this! I'll post the dxf in a minute.
nieles
10 kW
what i forgot to add to the model is an "stand-off" on the inside, this will rest on the inner bearing race.
this will space the endcap away from the windings. i think this is also not in your dxf files.
its a bit hard to explain, i hope you understand what i mean.
this will space the endcap away from the windings. i think this is also not in your dxf files.
its a bit hard to explain, i hope you understand what i mean.
nieles
10 kW
mdd0127 said:
i agree with you, i also think we can not expect any warrenty from markobetti about this problem.
i think i will not mod my motor right now, because i can't afford to screw it up and lose the motor.
about the hall sensors; i like the idea, but where are you mounting the hall sensors them self, on the outside right?
mdd0127
100 kW
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Here's the final DXF:
I went through and corrected the planes that everything was on, added the spacer boss, and added the hall trigger magnet pockets. I went ahead and left the opposite blade pocket in the cover plate because I think it will be cool. Anyone that's rewound their motor and considering using this design might want to check for wire clearance and offset the inner surface appropriately. I left 2mm beyond the factory wire for clearance.
The hall sensors in my application will be in a plate that's using stand off's bolted to slots in the motor mounting plate. There will be a support bearing machined into the HTD pulley that rides on a boss inside the frame to support that end of everything, leaving plenty of space for a hall bracket.
If I can find some good can material, I might make up a couple assembled versions ready to bolt on. I'd like to see you benefit directly from helping here!
Correct dxf attached below.
I went through and corrected the planes that everything was on, added the spacer boss, and added the hall trigger magnet pockets. I went ahead and left the opposite blade pocket in the cover plate because I think it will be cool. Anyone that's rewound their motor and considering using this design might want to check for wire clearance and offset the inner surface appropriately. I left 2mm beyond the factory wire for clearance.
The hall sensors in my application will be in a plate that's using stand off's bolted to slots in the motor mounting plate. There will be a support bearing machined into the HTD pulley that rides on a boss inside the frame to support that end of everything, leaving plenty of space for a hall bracket.
If I can find some good can material, I might make up a couple assembled versions ready to bolt on. I'd like to see you benefit directly from helping here!
Correct dxf attached below.
nieles
10 kW
so if i understand correctly, you will be driving the pulley from the endcap side?
do you have a thread about you build?
do you have a thread about you build?
mdd0127
100 kW
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Yes. That's just how it worked out with positioning everything. It also allows me to get a bearing to support that end of the shaft without adding any thickness. If the pulley was on the other side, there would be the pulley width, mount width, motor width, then a support bearing. This way, the bearing can go inside the pulley. It all has to fit between the cranks of a Hammerschmidt with an 80mm bottom bracket.
There are many things I'm ending up doing simply because there wasn't another clear way to do things. For example, my design first started out as a single pivot rear suspension, but now it's an asymmetrical three link with an active braking pivot and the chain going inside the swing arm. I don't have an official build thread because I'm very lucky to be doing this at all and the reasons for my luck would like to see some financial benefits as a result of making the build possible. I'll try to share what I think I can, when I can but really can't post a "this is how to build my prototype" thread as the end goal is selling the idea as a package to a company that's already set up to put it into production. As an alternative option, we have a vacant industrial complex that might get turned into an EV factory. Either way it's a serious deal. It's really funny too because it all started as a paint chop up of a motobecane xc bike with an agni motor bolted on to it! Once I realized that the project was possible, I decided not to build a death machine and to attempt to build the ultimate example of two wheeled transportation instead!
Although there are five or six ideas of mine that I'll be incorporating into this bike that might be patentable, generally, I'm just putting a bunch of currently available technology together in a cool way. I'm going for an ultralight electric dirt bike with pedal assist, a highly modified Colossus motor, lyen 12 fet, turnigy lipo, 8 inch avid brakes, top of the line 888 fork, bar adjustable seat height, NuVinci as a mid drive, CSK one way bearings instead of freewheels, 3.0 and 3.8 wide tires, and a Hammerschmidt to widen out the pedaling range. I have all of the parts here, finally got the shop set up and all of the tools working properly. Now that I'm getting more comfortable with my software and equipment, I'm ripping through designs and making a few parts per day. At first, I had over seventy parts that needed to either be designed and machined from scratch or highly modified. Now it's getting up around a hundred but I'm knocking out a few a day so it won't be long before it's rolling.
I never would have imagined how much work it would be.
There are many things I'm ending up doing simply because there wasn't another clear way to do things. For example, my design first started out as a single pivot rear suspension, but now it's an asymmetrical three link with an active braking pivot and the chain going inside the swing arm. I don't have an official build thread because I'm very lucky to be doing this at all and the reasons for my luck would like to see some financial benefits as a result of making the build possible. I'll try to share what I think I can, when I can but really can't post a "this is how to build my prototype" thread as the end goal is selling the idea as a package to a company that's already set up to put it into production. As an alternative option, we have a vacant industrial complex that might get turned into an EV factory. Either way it's a serious deal. It's really funny too because it all started as a paint chop up of a motobecane xc bike with an agni motor bolted on to it! Once I realized that the project was possible, I decided not to build a death machine and to attempt to build the ultimate example of two wheeled transportation instead!
Although there are five or six ideas of mine that I'll be incorporating into this bike that might be patentable, generally, I'm just putting a bunch of currently available technology together in a cool way. I'm going for an ultralight electric dirt bike with pedal assist, a highly modified Colossus motor, lyen 12 fet, turnigy lipo, 8 inch avid brakes, top of the line 888 fork, bar adjustable seat height, NuVinci as a mid drive, CSK one way bearings instead of freewheels, 3.0 and 3.8 wide tires, and a Hammerschmidt to widen out the pedaling range. I have all of the parts here, finally got the shop set up and all of the tools working properly. Now that I'm getting more comfortable with my software and equipment, I'm ripping through designs and making a few parts per day. At first, I had over seventy parts that needed to either be designed and machined from scratch or highly modified. Now it's getting up around a hundred but I'm knocking out a few a day so it won't be long before it's rolling.
I never would have imagined how much work it would be.
olaf-lampe
10 kW
Actually I'm not interested in a new endcap.
Because there still remains the problem with the shorted stator laminations which in my opinion is the reason for higher eddy current losses compared to turnigy motors.
If at all, I would start from scratch and only order the stator packs from marko without the shaftholder and design a motor around it myself.
But then again I can also buy turnigys and rewind them, (replace the shaft and use better bearings too) with the same result.
-Olaf
Because there still remains the problem with the shorted stator laminations which in my opinion is the reason for higher eddy current losses compared to turnigy motors.
If at all, I would start from scratch and only order the stator packs from marko without the shaftholder and design a motor around it myself.
But then again I can also buy turnigys and rewind them, (replace the shaft and use better bearings too) with the same result.
-Olaf
mdd0127
100 kW
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2008
- Messages
- 1,084
I finally got the supplies in to make new endcaps and cans. I've been onto some other aspects of the project and will be getting back to these motors after my build is done. I have a custom Astro on the way so that takes priority. They can provide a reliable supply and the quality is unmatched so I'll be focusing on developing with one of their motors instead. I wanted to try a Colossus out in my prototype but have re-optimized the design and gearing for the Astro and shouldn't be spending time building motors right now. I definitely want to maximize these Colossus motors though and already have some ideas for projects for them.
mdd0127
100 kW
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- Sep 30, 2008
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They aren't available anymore as far as I know.
I have one wound by thud at 69kv and one factory one, 14 replacement magnets, three pieces of stock for custom cans, all of the aluminum stock for custom fan integreted end caps and the dxf's and g-code written to make it happen.
On both motors, there is a slight can misalignment which causes a slight vibration at lower rpm, which smooths out as they spool up, hence the new endcap design and extra materials.
I had to sell my CNC to survive though so I can't cut the endcaps now.....well I actually could but it would take waaay too long
I'd sell it all for $400 but you'd have to be OK with sending me a US Postal Money order to general delivery because I'm homeless and bankless. PM me if interested.
I have one wound by thud at 69kv and one factory one, 14 replacement magnets, three pieces of stock for custom cans, all of the aluminum stock for custom fan integreted end caps and the dxf's and g-code written to make it happen.
On both motors, there is a slight can misalignment which causes a slight vibration at lower rpm, which smooths out as they spool up, hence the new endcap design and extra materials.
I had to sell my CNC to survive though so I can't cut the endcaps now.....well I actually could but it would take waaay too long
I'd sell it all for $400 but you'd have to be OK with sending me a US Postal Money order to general delivery because I'm homeless and bankless. PM me if interested.